Tom the Dog's You Know What I Like?
While I disagree with your opinion of Fight Club, I couldn't agree more about My Big Fat Greek Wedding. What a horrible, HORRIBLE movie. I picked it up sight unseen because of all the reviews and neither my wife or I could figure out what the big deal was. Just a horrible movie. I'll stick with Father of the Bride - at least the bride was cute.
I saw Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back recently after about five or six years. I used to think Empire was a stronger film but not anymore. Star Wars still has it's problems, mostly in Lucas's tin ear for dialogue, but I appreciated the constructing of this vast fantasy world.
If you look at the Mos Eisley scene there's enough aliens there that a hundred sci-fi films could make as their main antagonist. But in Star Wars they're just extras. Touches like that impressed me.
I do agree that it is Harrison Ford who has to be charismatic for everyone else in the film. Indiana Jones is a better trilogy (actually, I still haven't seen Last Crusade. But I will. Soon.).
Gone with the Wind. It was pretty to look at, but why should I feel any sympathy toward a slave owner? The acting was way too hammy. It was expected with Leslie Howard, but Clark Gable? I wouldn't mind if every print of that movie disappears from the face of this earth.
I did not like Gone with the Wind.
Who says Carlos Mencia is popular?
'Classics' and 'My Big Fat Boring Stupid Unfunny Greek Wedding' is an oxymoron right there, Tom; even the retards who like the film would be hard pressed to call it a classic. The only reason I think this film did well is because old people, who seemingly like limp "jokes" and inoffensive tripe, went to see it and banged on about it to other old people who have no taste.
Ditto Titanic; replace 'old people' with 'morons'. I still feel dirty for having seen it in the cinema.
I think you are harsh on His Girl Friday and High Noon, which are actually quite good; you say about High Noon that your familiarity with the plot didn't help, but that doesn't mean it is a bad film. Anyway, I thought it was only John Wayne who hated that film, because he thought Cooper was wimp in it, and that was how Rio Bravo got made.
Your attack on Fight Club seems more-pointed towards the obsessives rather than the film. It is sad that is #32 on the IMDb top 250, but that is because it is voted for by mostly younger folk, with no memory or desire for older B&W films - any time there is a popular vote, recent films that are not deserving always end up in them.
I would like to see your barbed wit against more deserving causes. Go through Ebert's 100 Great Movies and slag some of them off. Personally, I think 2001: A Space Odyssey is duller than watching my hair grow, and I don't get what the big deal is about Vertigo (I've never been a great fan of Hitch, as his coldness towards the characters always seems to get in the way of his excellent storytelling).
Yeah, I saw that Onion list - and was bsically turned off by the overall newness of the "classic" list. Big Lebowski revered as a classic? I like the movie, but even among Coen Bros.' offerings, it's a distant fifth at least. Caddyshack? Now you're just being silly. . .
Titanic was indescribably bad. I can't believe that won the Oscar.
My classic that I don't like is Blade Runner. It just doesn't do it for me. At all. I get a lot of flack for that.
Ian -- Oh, man, Empire is ten times better than Star Wars. Mainly because Lucas didn't write or direct it, which means it has good writing and direction. Great writing, I'd say -- Empire is by far the best written of the six films (which isn't much competition, considering George "You can write this shit, but you can't say it" Lucas wrote four of them). Star Wars is still great spectacle, but it's not a good film.
Wilfredo -- I like Gone With the Wind, and I think it's a great example of epic filmmaking, but yeah, I agree it's got some wild overacting, and its glorification of Southern slaveowners, even giving it slack for historical context (which was still a good 70 years after the end of the Civil War), can be troubling.
Monty -- Carlos Mencia says it! Also, the fact that his rotten show is in its second season.
David -- I knew putting Big Fat etc. in with "classics" was pushing it, but I just like trashing that film at every opportunity. It may not be a classic, but it was certainly a huge moneymaker. And I've met many, many people in their 20s and 30s who loved this film. It's not just old people. Bad taste transcends generations. And I almost had Vertigo on this list! For some reason, I always think there must be a problem with me for not liking it, because so many people consider it Hitchcock's best, and because I do like so many other of his films -- for example, I think Rear Window, another Hitchcock/Jimmy Stewart collaboration, is brilliant.
Bill -- yeah, there are a lot of new "classics" on the Onion's list -- and on mine. I'd probably agree with you on Lebowski -- not that I think it's a bad film, not at all, but because it's got such a hugely devoted cult (of which Ian Brill and Jeremiah, above, are both members), and I'm more with you. I mean, let's see: Fargo, O Brother, Where Art Thou, Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing... yeah, I'd rank it behind a lot of other Coen films, too. I still think it's pretty damn funny, even hilarious in parts; I'm just not quite a cult member.
Caddyshack, I'd be more likely to argue with you on its classic status. It's up there with Animal House (which I'd be curious to know whether or not you considered a classic). I'm not saying it's Casablanca-level classic, but it is a comedy classic. And after 25 years, I'd say it's stood the test of time.
Jeremiah -- I love Blade Runner. I've actually seen three different "director's cuts" of it in the theater. How one film got so many director's cuts, I don't know. But I definitely know a few people who think I'm insane for liking it at all, let alone thinking it's great.
That's spooky about Vertigo, dude. I thought it was just me as well; I mean, Stewart is good, and it's an okay film, but what's the big deal? Seriously!
Btw, please feel free to keep shitting on MBFGW as much as you want. You just need to stop meeting all those weird fuckers who like it ...
Strangely enough, I remember almost nothing about The Big Lebowski. I remember a few scenes, but overall, I thought it was weak.
As for "classics" it's okay to hate, how about It's A Wonderful Life? It's better than I thought it was (I had only seen it once until I watched it again recently), but it's still kind of a lousy movie.
I think Titanic is brilliant, and very much deserved its Oscar. Uses its epic length well, is mostly well-acted (Kate Winslet is ALWAYS good), and the structure is ingenius. As Ebert pointed out, they show us the mechanics and timing of the ship's sinking early on, so that when it actually happens, we know what is happening logistically and can focus on the people. And it's the people's reactions that make the film - the disorientation, panic, horror, and numb fatality that the passengers go through as the ship slowly sinks was all executed with perfect pitch. I felt the tragedy, and was really moved by what was happening. Sure, the central romance is a little hokey, but when did that become a crime? As for the dialogue, there seems to be this notion out there that a good film has to have "clever" or "witty" or "well-written" dialogue. Not true. Listen around you - you'll hear PLENTY of bad dialogue. Film as a medium has dozens of elements it can use to its advantage, and great films can achieve greatness by focusing on only some of them. Some films are "about" language. Some are "about" spectacle. One approach is not inherently better than another. Titanic is not about language; it's about visuals and structure. And it executes those elemeents with aplomb. And much could the same could be said of Star Wars.
That's the best defense of Titanic I've ever heard. I still think the film is crap, but that's really a decent defense.
Tom the Dog, yeah, I dunno - everyone I know likes Blade Runner. Everyone thought I'd love Blade Runner. It just did abosolutely nothing for me. Can't explain it. (I saw the Director's Cut, but I don't know which one.)
Switching gears ever so slightly, you know what 'classic' that is ridiculous that I absolutely love? The Ten Commandments with Heston. God, do I get a kick out of that movie. And it's not even an ironic kick. I really like it.
I'm going to claim that the standards for "getting a show into its second season on Comedy Central" aren't particularly high.
I always thought American Beauty was wildly overrated (hey, look at that, it's right after Fight Club on the IMDB Top 250. Hi Brad! Hi Ed!). American Beauty certainly wasn't the first film to look at the dark corners of suburbia (I don't know what was, but Blue Velvet came out in 1986), it wasn't the darkest (Happiness went much farther), and it wasn't the most creative (Edward Scissorhands). Ironically it seems to be a critique of suburbia that was only embraced by the boring, middle-class suburbanites it sets out to critique. Also, I think it was the film that caused Kevin Spacey to shift from acting to doing Kevin Spacey impersonations.
Tosy -- I guess if I'm wrong to think a great film has to be "well-written," that's a burden I'm willing to bear. I agree some movies succeed on their visuals alone -- going back to Star Wars again, whose spectacle outweighs its awful writing, or much farther back to, say, Un Chien Andalou, not to mention many silent classics -- but for the most part, those films are a shadow of whole great films, which have great writing and visuals, like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Raging Bull, etc., etc., etc.
That said -- I still don't even concede that Titanic is a film that succeeds on its visuals alone. Bad writing, bad acting, bad characters -- bad movie. For the movie to have worked, you had to CARE that the ship was going to sink. After two hours of that crap, I couldn't WAIT for that iceberg to kill them all.
Greg -- you know, I don't think that I've ever actually watched It's a Wonderful Life from beginning to end. Huh. Same with Ten Commandments, Jeremiah.
Adouble -- I still like American Beauty, but MAN has there been a backlash against it. Now some people count it among the worst Best Picture Oscar winners in recent memory. How that can be, when that group includes Titanic, Gladiator, and Crash, I have no idea.
I'll try and be more specific. I wouldn't call the writing in STAR WARS or TITANIC bad, but just functional. When I hear the writing in TITANIC slammed, it seems like it's not being slammed for being BAD, but more for not being clever, or witty, or elegant. And while I have nothing against witty, elegant, or clever dialogue, if ALL filmed narratives featured such dialogue I'd go nuts. Writing is, of course, much more than dialogue, but the sense I get is that it's the dialogue, specifically, that many (you) are objecting to in these films, and not the structure (even though, as William Goldman tells us, screenplays are, first and foremost, about strcture, not dialogue). And I still would suggest that it's limiting to expect all films to have CASABLANCA-type dialogue.
As for the rest of it, I guess it's different strokes. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for that ship to sink, and found it highly emotinal and effective.
As an aside, I will say that if I do a similar post of classics I didn't like, RAGING BULL would be first on my list. I went through a phase where I Netflixed a number of "classics" that I thought I should finally see. CASABLANCA was awesome, as advertised. CITIZEN KANE was awesome, as advertised. RAGING BULL bored me to tears. I won't say why, because I might actually write that post at some point. 
Wilfredo - Clark Gable's acting was hammy in EVERYTHING. Did you ever see Manhattan Melodrama?
Adouble - I thought Kevin Spacey was doing Jack Lemmon impersonations, not Kevin Spacey impersonations. God, do I hate American Beauty. I always hated it, from the first moment I saw it. The best movie of 1999 was The Straight Story.
I don't know, I hear a lot of valid criticisms of Titanic, but no one's ever been able to convince me that it's a terrible movie. It has a lot of things going against it (out of all the bad dialogue, the hammy performances, and the pretentious posturing, it's oddly Danny "bastardo!" Nucci I hate the most), but it still works for me. I think a lot of the bad reaction to it is backlash against its success. I mean, it's a good movie, but it's not $400 million good.
Overrated classics? I've always thought The Third Man was nothing special, apart from a couple of scenes. I don't care much for Apocalypse Now, or anything Kubrick made after (I can hear the groans now) Barry Lyndon. And I think Mr. Smith Goes to Washington has dated horribly. So has The Graduate, for that matter.
Caddyshack wanted sooooo bad to be Animal House (which I do love), but that damn subplot with the young boy caddy and the girl he might've gotten pregnant is so not part of the rest of the film that the movie sputters to a halt every time it's returned to. Rodney Dangerfield has never been better, though, and the gopher's great, too.
The Angry Aliens have a great 30-second bunny synopsis of Caddyshack on their site, incidentally. . .
I'm with Tosy and Cosh on their defence of Titanic. Budding screenwriters could all do themselves favors and study the structure of that film. Film's that length used to have intermissions for the audience but that film did a great job at being brisk while still supplying the audience with enough info.
But Raging Bull, that is amazing filmmaking. Those boxing scenes were fascinating and DeNiro has never been better as this horrible, and very human, brute. His breakdown scene in jail is chilling and has always stuck with me.
Since I've defended three filsm here already I should add one film I think is overrated, although I don't want to be too negative. I must say I found Lord of the Rings very boring. With all its flights of fancy I never once found a relatable element.
Never saw Titanic, and I plan to keep it that way.
Star Wars was lots of fun, then. As entertainment, they just go downhill from there. Not that I've seen any since 'The Phantom Menace' because obviouly that would be a waste of time and photons.
American Beauty, some gorgeous shots, in a really bad movie. 'Aw, he's dead and he's technically only almost a child molester. How sad.' Er, NOT!
MBFGW, not bad just not very good.
First of all, how many Jeremiahs do we have commenting on your blog, Tom? I thought I was the only one, and here's two posts by Jeremiah before I get my say. That sort of thing is strange for someone with my name.
Now, onto what I was going to say in the first place: As a proud Acheiver and veteran of Lebowski Fest, I have to step up and defend The Big Lebowski, which is my favorite movie of all time, from its detractors. Is it not as good as other Coen Brothers films? I would say no, but I feel strange saying that Lebowski isn't as good as Barton Fink, because there's no comparison between the two, as there's no comparison for Lebowski and Blood Simple, or Fargo, or even Raising Arizona. What is it that I'm looking for in the comparison? In fact, I think Lebowski is a movie that DEFIES comparison, because of how unique it is...and that is why it is a classic. It stands alone in its own genre. I would say that the "classic" status isn't set yet (remember TBL is less than 10 years old), but once it stands the test of time its status will be more clear.
You reminded me of the total suckiness, the total emptiness, the total torture that was My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
Thanks. Now I have to "bring the pain"
I never cared for Fight Club, either, and yes, a lot of that has to do with how obsessive its fans are. One of my roommates post-college was a huge fan, and probably watched it at least once a week for a year. When I finally saw it and said that I didn't really like it that much, he legitimately got mad at me!
I've also never cared for Blade Runner that much. But it's funny - I saw the director's cut first, and then saw the original version. I liked the original better, silly narration and all - it felt like more of a hammy sci-fi/Hammett mash-up. I think it's better that way.
And I absolutely hate Dr. Strangelove. Hate it with a passion, except for the Coke machine scene and the part where George C. Scott acts like a plane.
Tosy -- no, I'm definitely slamming Star Wars and Titanic for bad dialogue, several levels below "functional". The typical Bruckheimer film has "functional" dialogue, existing primarily for the purpose of moving us from one action setpiece to another. Titanic aspires to more, and misses it so completely. And I think Goldman has forfeited any right to lecture on screenwriting after Dreamcatcher!
And I also didn't love Raging Bull on first viewing. It had to grow on me -- and it has.
SamuraiFrog -- I still like American Beauty, but I agree The Straight Story was, and is, far, far better. What a brilliant, lovely movie. And I couldn't disagree more on The Graduate. Love that movie.
Bill S. -- love those bunnies! And yeah, the actual caddy parts of Caddyshack are sorely lacking. But there are so many other genius comedic moments that make up for it, I think.
Ian -- I know how you hate those trees in Lord of the Rings!
Jeremiah #2 -- I thought the first Jeremiah was you! I think this blog is exceeding its maximum occupancy of Jeremiahs. And I don't know, I don't think Lebowski is all that dissimilar in style and feel from Raising Arizona, which was my first Coen brothers film and possibly still my favorite (O Brother is its closest rival). Like I said, I like Lebowski, I'm just not in the Lebowski cult.
Bill D. -- that's ridiculous, getting mad at you because you don't like Fight Club. Wait, you don't like Dr. Strangelove? I'm mad at you!!
I'm pissed that the shrill and unfunny Mind of Mencia got renewed (for two more fuckin' seasons!) while the genuinely funny Stella didn't. Unfortunately, racist stand-up comedy that plays well in the red states (Mencia, Larry the Cable Guy) is most popular with Comedy Central viewers these days. Look at the Nielsen cable ratings charts. Sad but true.
We're not alone in hating Mencia. A lot of stand-ups despise him for being a joke thief. George Lopez kicked his ass once at the Laugh Factory for ripping off his shtick. Next, I hope Paul Mooney and Chris Rock corner Mencia outside a club and beat him like a pinata for stealing their material as well.
Aw, man! I didn't know it was definite Stella wasn't coming back. That sucks. Almost as bad as Mencia does. Even Joe Rogan attacks Mencia for being a hack and a joke thief.
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