Cross posted from DB:
I think a major part of the problem is that you are measuring suffering just in terms of body counts while I am looking it from a point of view of Israel's legitimacy.
Let me put it this way. If Israel is simply a puppet of the west and can not provide for the basic safety of its citizens from enemy combatents (which is one of the most basic function of a state to begin with) then it looses its legitimacy as a state.
To put it yet another way. Zionism from the very begining made some assumptions. The first is that the Jewish people deserve their own homeland and the right to determine their own fate. The second implicit assumpation is that this right supercedes other concerns... such as the existance of other populations which live on our historic homeland.
While no one was ever happy about the prospect of Jewish rights causing others to loose theirs, this was an unavoidable consequence of zionist asperations. If this is no longer true, if Israel's only claim to survival, as you argue, is that it becomes a puppet of the west's policies and moralities, then it serves no usefull function to the Jewish people, and therefore Jews will become more and more apathetic to its existance (as I believe is happening right now among liberal Jews and secular Jews in Israel).
In other words, the policies that you claim are required for Israel to survive physically would in my estimation cause her to die spiritually and cease to therefore be viable physically as well.
I would argue that your use of statistics is not correct, because you are averaging over nonuniform populations. You compared overall death rates in NYC to Israel as a whole. The NY stats are actually better than you cite for most people, because a large fraction of the murders are among criminal gangs. The rate experienced by the rest of the populace is lower. And the 10 people killed by rockets in S'derot, compared to the population of S'derot, is large.
If you would compare the rate of death from violence among people in New York who are not members of criminal gangs, to people in S'derot, I suspect you will find a dramatically different conclusion.
I recall reading in Freakonomics that the death rate among members of a Chicago drug gang was higher than that for Texas inmates on death row.
I would argue that your use of statistics is not correct, because you are averaging over nonuniform populations. You compared overall death rates in NYC to Israel as a whole. The NY stats are actually better than you cite for most people, because a large fraction of the murders are among criminal gangs. The rate experienced by the rest of the populace is lower.
I agree.
And the 10 people killed by rockets in S'derot, compared to the population of S'derot, is large.
I'm also sure there is a higher murder rate in Harlem than in Midtown. One has to take into consideration the overall effect on the country as a whole and not in a specific area.
If you would compare the rate of death from violence among people in New York who are not members of criminal gangs, to people in S'derot, I suspect you will find a dramatically different conclusion.
I don't see why I can't compare to Israel as a whole. But you are correct that the murder rate probably drops if we take out the criminal gangs.
Either way I'm not so sure that Sderot is any more dangerous than the Lower East Side neighborhood in which my father grew up. I'd like to see some data, but that's not online. Basically my point is that we have to put these numbers into perspective and realize that Israel is not doing that terribly.
Hi,
Just read your e-mail and so happy to hear the good news. By this time, you must have held your little bundle of joy -- so wonderful, I'm sure. Everyone is happy with the news that you may be taking him home Sunday or Monday (P-G). Once again, you're always in my thoughts and prayers.
Roberta
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