Who's to blame?
1 - The labels for the lack of promotion
2 - The web, cause nobody buys albums that they can have for free, especially if they're not really interested in them [that's exactly what I did with Tiffany and Estelle (Lil Mama is non-existent to me); do I really care about another album by them? No. So I have no reason to support them.].
I think the web is just an excuse. Albums have been leaking for the longest time now and some artists have selling power no matter what happens. Kanye's album Graduation leaked 2 weeks before release and it didn't affect his sales at all. At the end of the day, there was hype surrounding the record. I know that the 50 Cent rivalry with the two of them releasing albums on the same day had a lot to do with it. 50 also admitted that Kanye was the mastermind behind it all. It was HIS idea for the gimmick and it worked. Not that he needed it anyway because he would have sold major units REGARDLESS. Kanye is one of those artists that has selling power - the same as Alicia Keys, Beyonce, Mary J Blige, etc. Music leaking has nothing to do with it. If the buzz is there the album will sell NO MATTER WHAT. Every time a new Beyonce track gets leaked, there is always buzz because Beyonce is Beyonce and well, she's high profile and admired and has EVERYTHING to draw in the audience. She's EVERY record label's dream - she's beautiful, sexy, marketable, talented and has star power. She's the competition. At the end of the day, if there's no buzz surrounding your project you won't sell, it's as simple as that.
Who is to blame??
Not everyone has star power/presence, look @ Beyonce, she has that presence, and star quality & a great marketing team behind her, then look at Kelly, she has the same marketing team(well one would assume its the same) but she is not selling, she can sing but she just doesnt have the presence. the only reason why she is selling in Europe is because she has gone the alternative route, just the same with Rihanna, yeah she is pretty and all, but its her versatility thats making her sell, remember when she 1st came out on a dance hall trip, and since then she has done everything, from, pop, eltronica/disco, r'nb and thats making her appealing to everyone
its either you got it or you dont, Estelle & Tiffany can sing, but they dont got it
well said Toya. And i think Estelle's album could've been bigger if the released it a bit later over in the US. I mean American Boy is climbing up iTunes quite fast over in America it's #35.
My point is: if I couldn't find Tiffany's album on the net maybe, out of curiosity, I would've given it a chance and I would've bought it. And maybe other people would've done it as well.
The web is underrated when it comes to this topic.
Yeah, thinking about the albums I own, they're either albums I really really really like or albums that I wasn't able to find on the web (or I wasn't able to find them in cd quality)...
Preach sista Toya!
100% on point
To claim that albums leaking on the net has nothing to do with lower sales is nuts , of course it has alot to do with downloading. But yup i agree bout the promotion , there's so many female R&B artist out there fighting for the spotlight so your promotion team gotta be on point.
The sad part is that so many good artist not even get the chance to drop their albums they just get shelved on the labels, and with a huge amount cash unrecouped from both label and publisher without an album out or a non selling album u're in deep water....
Toya dont fucking crack me up!! ha ha. 'Certified as aluminum'I'm going to be using that shit shit right there!!!
To claim that albums leaking on the net has nothing to do with lower sales is nuts - Dro
It's a contributing factor but not the main one.
hey toya i know u dont get it cuz u think u got what it takes to understand the music biz BUT
those kids didnt sell cuz they make shitty music and nobody likes them.
Sorry but yall are dumb as shit...how can u compare beyonce 50 and etc.. with tiffany??...dumb shit
How can tiffany a new artist have the sellpower like beyonce????
Its promo,PERIOD.
A new artist has to be promoted....in tiffanys case...she didnt get promo so ...lables fault.
have u seen her on any show???
NO
"It's a contributing factor but not the main one."
@ Toya
Well if you know what the main one is why did u ask the question?
A: I think these artists haven been around long enough to build up a reputable name and fanbase for themselves and that's part of the problem. You hear about them out of nowhere for the first time in April and their albums are released in May.
B: Most of them get very little air-play on the major radio stations that will allow them to be heard by the masses so no one even knows about a single yet alone an album.
C: They're not stand-out artists. Lil' Mama is a gimmick from the name to the sound to the style and the list goes on. Any 10 year-old can do what she does - so who will want to buy her album.....a 10 year-old! Artists need to strive for creativity and individuality instead of following trends.
D: I agree that it's just a contributing factor, but a pretty significant one - FREE DOWNLOADS. You proudly brag about doin' it yourself T, and then u ask why they're albums aren't hitting triple figures? Let's face it - regardless of how much prowess an artist has, you're not gonna buy their album if you can download it for free only to discover that it ain't worth purchasing cos you only like 1/3 of the songs.
I think downloading only effects the newer artists. Like, when Mariah's or Kanye's leaks, because they've been around for a while, even if it leaks, you still wanna go out, get the CD and add it to your collection (or I know I do). But when it comes to new artists like Tiffany...I mean, I downloaded her album and I think it's great, but I don't wish to buy it. It's in my iPod and that's that. I do think promotion (obviously) plays a big part.
WOW! Kelly Rowland looks like she sold million's towards these LMAO! At least she sold 90,000 but i think its all cos of........
YOU TOYA!!
ALI
PEREZ
And all other sites leaking them!
Its better kevi is gone 
I don't leak the music. I stream the music AFTER it has been leaked. Get it right
lil mama sucks. Estelle's album is dope. tiffany evans and lil mama..... they not part of my age demographic. maybe little 5 year olds might buy thier albums
Tiffany: Promise ring dropped in May 2007, it was buzzin when it was released the album was meant to be released that Summer, but they didnt release it and constintly pushed it back + she hardly had any TV promotion (besides BET), there was no longer an intrest
Estelle: again, hardly any TV promotion in the US, she had tons over in the UK and loads of live shows, radio etc but US not as much, its understandable she didnt score high stateside, if it was the same in the UK i would have been disappointed
Lil Mama: again she got the T.E. treatment, Lipgloss scored high in the charts way back when, they should have released the album last summer when the single was buzzin
but overall it was April, there has been a alot of attention on bigger artists, Ive come to realise that in the US you cant just go on tour and do lots of live shows and expect to sell, youve gotta do TV, major radioplay and have an appropriate image (inc music video)
You all have some strong points..these record labels arent paying any mind to the people who actually buy the music they are older people who have been wrapped up in the music industry for years and when someone breaks through and is successful they try to carbon copy it...with ciara the industry was missing a female who could dance..when she sold millions of records boy did the labels try find other wannabe's that failed ie(Latoya, Eureka, ect.) and Destiny's Child ie Mystic,Black Buddafly, I mean the list could go on...) clearly if your not Beyonce, Ciara, Chris Brown, Usher, Jay Z, your not going to sell records these people work hard and have the IT factor that these newbies dont..Tiffany Evans is gifted but the label had her on stage popping her booty with the 1 2 step copy promise ring..they shouldve kwown her LP wasnt going to sell her singles didnt do good at all on billboards..and LIL mama cmon now..they shouldve of realeased her LP when Lip GLOSS was huge...her label spent alot of money on her she was even on a track with Avril L. I think its bad timing with her b/c she has 2 huge hits under her belt...and plus she realeased her debut LP out when Madonna and Mariah were coming out think people..you dont do that....Estelle I dont know to much about her...but you have to come into your own...
lil' mama had the singles and features and the label's timing fucked her up, performing lip gloss when it was hot and the remix to girlfriend, she DEF would have sold. estelle's song is hot and people like it but not being on the trl's and gma's she fell, tiffany has an AMAZING STORY, milk that, get on tv
and talk it, sing 2 and sell!
if i get a record deal, before i sign everything i want a marketing team agreement or understanding on the. table because i WANT to be on everything, work with amazing and NOT FLOP!! put me on radio shows, mall stores, opening for radio station concerts, tv show commercials, dumbass school tours, a college tour, something, get me on 106, trl, gma...YES AN ARTIST HAS TO HAVE THE HIT TO MAKE YOU LIKE THEM, BUT U CAN BE DEVELOPED LIKE RIHANNA WAS, SHE WAS NEVER UGLY BUT ONLY HER SONGS DID WELLL, THEY GAVE HER THIS NEW IMAGE AND SHE'S NOT SELLIN CRAZY BUT HER EXPOSURE IS ILL!!!
Lack of promotion and gas is almost $4 a gallon!!!
Parents aren't buying cds for the kids! They are trying to get some gas for the week!
Tiffany Evans didn't have the promo. Let's hope she ends up as an opening act on her 'mentor' Ciara's tour so everyone can see that Ciara has no business mentoring someone whose vocally far superior to her.
Tiffany Evans & Lil Mama: Bad Management. No promotion whatsoever. And no real "hit", Lil mama has a semi-hit tho.
Estelle : Bad management. And she doesn't have the "mainstream look" in an era that is extremely shallow and visual hence following what is taught to be visually attractive. Lauryn Hill could blow up 10 years ago cos ppl focused on talent first regardless of the standards that were dictated, these days looking like Estelle ain't what's up, let's be honest. Why would she be labeled tomboyish for having a haircut yet Rihanna was never labelled that?
Downloading is far from being the main factor. If you have "the machine" to promote your music, leaked or not, you will sell. Thats what made Ashanti sell 6 million records with her debut. Now longevity and relevance require undeniable talent. Where does the leaking come from anyway? LABELS THEMSELVES, they know what they're doing. They often test things to see how people respond to it. And when their strategies fail they blame it on the internet.
Tiffanys single that people somewhat liked was released a freakin year ago. Lil Mama lip gloss released a year ago and they actually had a buzz then. But they're albums were recently released..a year later. wow *I'm so shocked they didn't sell well and go plat in the first week*
Come on, nobnody was checking for them.
I know i personally dont care for Lil Mama or Tiffany. There's no appeal. And i had no intentions on buying any of their alums, much less waste my time downloading it.
Could I have missed out on really good albums?? Maybe. Do i care?? Hell no which is the point. No one cares.
Lack of promotion and bad material...for Tiffany and Lil Mama, but Estelle had some good stuff on her album
alicia sold 3 million records in the span of 3 months. sex doesn't sell anymore. it's about good music thats why
people bought kanye ,alicia and jay-zs
cd's people love real artist. yes tiffany can sing but her songs sucked
lil mama's gimmick was for 10 year old
estelle's had no promotion .
promotion has evey thing to do with it
but the right promotion like rhianna on every magazine with no clothes on
though rhianna sold only 1 mil copies
it won't be like that a second time
around.
Ashanti did not sell 6 million with her debut.
Ashanti sold 7 million with her debut!!
People are so quick to blame bad management on everything, but I think that's such a cop out.
First of all in the industry, EVERYBODY CAN'T BE A HIT. It's just like professional sports, every high school star won't go to the pros. And from the pros, everybody won't be a superstar. This is why I don't judge new artists on sales. It's just plain stupid to me.
It's just the times. No one sells like they used to. Also, consumers can't really afford to splurge on luxury items like music (especially new artists) in current economical times. That's a fact. Due to lack of sales as well as current financial restraint, record labels are more willing (and probably smartly) invest more in their top selling artists.
I don't think you can blame anybody. The house is ALWAYS favored in the industry. Theses artists understand that before they get into it. In music, success really is a game of chance. The more people realize that, the more people will be discouraged to pursue it. And the more others who just love what they're doing will continue to make great music - whether playing Madison Square Garden or Central Park.
Ashanti sold 3 million in the US and 5 million worldwide with her debut.
Ja, are you saying 3+5 aka 8 million or are you saying 5 million in total worldwide which include the 3 million in the US?
But anyway, 5, 6, 7, or 8 million, you guys get the point, she sold that much in the era of downloading with no crazy talent whatsoever imo.
I think albums leaking is a contributing factor, but not major. To me, it's all about the promotion and of course, the album quality.
If an album leaks, and people really love it, they'll buy it anyways out of support. In that case, leaking is an advantage, because it lets people hear the music first, and decide. So, it's really up to the artist to put out amazing material, which people will believe is worth their money.
It's also a matter of promotion. The labels spend their budgets primarily on artists that they know for a fact will sell. Unfortunately, that means the newcomers get shafted, which in turn leads to poor sales, so they don't get a fair share of the budget the next time either.
Toya, Rihanna doesn't sell that well either, especially for someone that gets so much promo and has so many ass kissers.
"If an album leaks, and people really love it, they'll buy it anyways out of support."
The problem is that that's not true at all!
Promotion plays a role; however, downloading sites play a significant role as well. I FLAT OUT REFUSE to buy music that I can download for free; keep in mind that I used to buy albums ALL THE TIME. Now, I only buy albums from Beyonce, Destiny's Child, and Brandy. If downloading sites were nonexistent, I WOULD be buying albums like I used to. I didn't buy Mariah; I didn't buy Janet; I didn't buy Ciara; I damn sure as hell didn't buy Kelly. But back in 2001/2002, I would have...
And Ouch is definitely on the money; I will not buy an album even if I think it's the greatest album in the world. Why? Because that's money out of my pocket, and I am not a salaried worker. I'd much rather buy food and clothes.
I hate when people blame the web. You download albums and listen to them to see if it's worth buying. I'm not dishing out $10 for every album that drops. I don't have it like that and I can guarantee if I call the record label and say reimburse me for that shitty album, I'll get hung up on. So I'll continue to preview albums and if it's worth it, I'll buy it.
As for the artists you named, I wouldn't give Lil Mama the time of day. She is a joke. From her style to her music to her team, nothing about her shows that she is ready to succeed. How the fuck you debut a year and a half before your album comes out? WTF?!? She and her team definitely dropped the ball and she missed her chance.
As for Tiffany Evans, the only song on her album I liked was Promise Ring. Her album went in the wrong directon. She shoulda did an urban pop area to corner the young market then go towards a hip-hop sound later on.
It seems like people get a deal and become complacent. You should work harder after getting signed! I would be on every corner, every festival, every tv show, singing and dancing my ass off like there is no tomorrow. You can't leave your career up to someone else.
It's not rocket science as to why Tiffany Evans and Lil' Mama's albums sold so badly. Look how long ago these chicks released their debut singles and well over 6 months later we get an album with no promotion!? Lil' Mama's album should've dropped on the back of Avril Lavinge's "Girlfriend" (remix). People may have checked her album out of curiosity. Alot of blogs and radio stations were on that remix. Even urban radio was spinnin' that shit.
As for Tiffany Evans, "Promise ring" was released donkey's ago and then we get "I'm grown" which is a good song, but not smash single material. It's too bland. Tiffany needed that really big single that radio would spin constantly. Something like what JoJo rolled out with: "Leave (get out)". A song that cuts across all sectors. Plus, Tiffany is signed to Columbia and that label is a mess. Even Beyonce had to hustle like f**k to push units of B'Day on that label and we know how they dogged Amerie's last 2 albums despite both of them having tracks that could've been certified smashes had they been released at the right time. Tiffany had no chance.
Nick... you better make an exception my nigga and buy my shit when it comes out
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