30 years from now I'll be 66 and Minnesota will be a faint memory. By then I'll have lived in the sunbelt 29 years. Rasied my kids, increased my standard of living, increased my income and paid up to $360,000 less in state income tax (rough estimate based on $12k per year or 10% of annual wages).

God bless Minnesota and all it's flaws. Too bad I wont be around to witness it's fall.
Jeremy A | 06.06.08 - 3:54 pm | #

But, isn't that what the new regime wants. Tax payers to leave and government program recipients from all over the country to realize the fortunes of keeping residence in thee nanny state. We plan on building in the next five years, and if we stay in the North, it will be in Wisconsin, NOT Minnesnowta. (Hopefully it will be in a state that I can go outside without dying in eight minutes.)
Joel | 06.06.08 - 4:03 pm | #

The projection of MN sounds a lot like Europe. Liberals should be happy with that.

Do you have any links to that info by the way? We want to talk about MN2020's report on the show this weekend if we have time. Yet another report that says we don't pay enough taxes and government doesn't spend enough money.
Margaret Martin | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 4:07 pm | #

Joel, I thought the property taxes were worse in WI?
Margaret Martin | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 4:08 pm | #

Al Gore will be sitting here with his 85% effective tax rate and crumbling infrastructure saying "Hah! At least they moved to Texas! I have to bike to my second job at MacDonalds now."
Kermit | 06.06.08 - 4:16 pm | #

People in this state are so well meaning, but they want recognition for it; so they become legislators. They don't have any money of their own, so their philanthropic good intentions are financed by the force of government.

They are going to be all things to all people so they are liked and can blush and be humble when they are given awards from their own kind.

It is quite a little clique these do gooders run in and when we challenge their motives we are called mean spirited, racist, phobic du jour as a scare tactic to keep us in line.

We have all been duped by all of the politicians; left and right. It is true; Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Magpie | 06.06.08 - 4:51 pm | #

Build a bigger welfare system and they will come.
Magpie | 06.06.08 - 4:53 pm | #

MM Check your email.

The projected change chart by age for 2030 is pretty scary too. Lots of old people an very few age earners to support them and the programs that they rely on.

Further proof that our "representatives" are either morons or just plain evil. We will not have the tax base to pay our current burden in 30 years, let alone the increased burden that the DFL dreams of. The demographics for this state are not good to say the least.
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 4:56 pm | #

We are looking at 90% plus changes in 60-85+ groups and 0 to 20% increases in the 20 to 54 groups. 35-39 is expected to have zero increase in the next 30 years and 40-44 is expected to increase 2%. Those are two high earning, high spending, high tax revenue age groups.
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 4:59 pm | #

This is what has put Social Security in the position it is in.

They just couldn't keep their grubby paws of all that money.
Magpie | 06.06.08 - 5:08 pm | #

You are correct Magpie. SS is fucked too and the Democrats have no intention of ever fixing it as it is a great campaign issue for them.

Can anyone point to anything that was accomplished by the Pelosi, no nothing, Congress?
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 6:12 pm | #

I do not know where those numbers come from, but when I access the IRS Data Book, I see these numbers, which indicate it has gone UP...

2007 2,555,729
2006 2,431,768
2003 2,378,422
2000 2,340,577

The numbers seem to contradict your source, which you have not provided, but I bet it is the Taxpayers League.

Those are from the "Individual income tax" column, and the sources are here:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/0...oi/ 06databk.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/0...oi/ 03databk.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/ 0...returnfiled.pdf

Correct my research if it is error.
A commenter | 06.06.08 - 6:23 pm | #

No, it was a realtor's seminar. They usually spin stuff to the positive side so I was surprised to see those numbers.
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 6:31 pm | #

Maybe the IRS was only counting people that actually paid taxes and not all of the forms for the people that file to get their EIC Credits.
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 6:43 pm | #

It ain't the Taxpayers League. I was surprised to see these numbers and passed them on to the Taxpayers League folks. They usually use Taxpayers Association (MN research group that has been around since the 1920s that does more number crunching public policy) or State/Fed numbers.
Margaret Martin | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 6:50 pm | #

I've got a truck and a good sized 2 axle trailer if you'd like help packing up?
Doug | 06.06.08 - 7:25 pm | #

Doug; Can you not see that the more money the govmint takes, the closer you are to a serf or slave? I myself value my labor.

I like MN, but in a few years will become a true "snow bird". I'll live here for 5 months, FL for 7. I already own here and am looking in Central FL. Got 2 kids that will stay in MN, got 2 more living in FL.

What will you do when you have to turn over 85% of your paycheck to "Da man"? Skip your latte? Or use your truck to flee?

Slaves always rise up, and we are close. It will become hard to vote with your feet at some point, but untill then I will become a MN "visitor" rather than resident.
Nobody | 06.06.08 - 8:53 pm | #

and I will help you guys pack.

Good riddance. By the time you guys get there, global warming will make southern states wastelands. By the way, if you don't think there' global warming look at the weather map south and east. Heat records being broken everywhere
Al Gore | 06.06.08 - 9:16 pm | #

AC has a lower carbon footprint that heating your home, especially in MN.

If you cared about the environment, you'd move Al!
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 9:33 pm | #

5Al; I grew up in AZ, I can take a wasteland. (don't like it though) And the upper midwest is cooler than normal. BIG WHOOP! Alarmist dope.
Nobody | 06.06.08 - 9:58 pm | #

Al Gore-How much do U make Gross. And how much does the Fed and MN taxes take??
Aren't u upset if they take more than 25%. Shit that 25% is =to child support. Is the government like a CHILD??? It is a sad state than when one takes a 2nd job...after taxes they really are making 3.00 an hour for that 2nd job.

Duce is right. In this MN state U get socked for working an xtra job or reaping yearly interest. Makes one want to sit on their ass instead.
A Non Y Mouse | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 11:20 pm | #

MN state and local tax burden ranked 19th nationwide in fiscal year 2006, when measured as a percentage of income.
A commenter | 06.07.08 - 8:32 am | #

Between Fed Income tax (28-35%), SS/MC (15%), state income tax(6%), sales tax (7%), property taxes, gas taxes, other embedded taxes I pay well over half of what I earn to the government.

Socialists have been trying to level the "tax burden" playing field by bringing Minnnesota taxes to all through the federal government. Since passage of the 17th amendment (popular vote of Senators instead of having them be selected by the state legislatures and thus representing those state governments)nearly 100 years ago, power has continued to drift toward Washington. There is some but little difference in where a company locates itself in the US.

The major problem with a overly strong federal government which has resulted in uniformity in onerous taxation, is that the whole country is a bad place to locate business. Minnesota may be one of the worst places in a nationally bad environment.

Aging demographics and the associated Social Security and Medicare obligations will continue to exacerbate this already significant problem.

The crazy Global Warming mandates, that seem to be inevitable, will just make this already negative business enviroenment worse.
tomc | 06.07.08 - 8:38 am | #

global warming will make southern states wastelands
As a fever swamp dweller you should find that appealing. Being an idiot, I've no doubt you will relish the 85% effective tax rate. But then you'll be an old person on Welfare.
Social Security and Medicare are Welfare by any measurement, right, Al?
Kermit | 06.07.08 - 9:32 am | #

In a note of hope Jim Abeler did not receive the endorsement in district 48b.
Jim has a machine working for him up here. He is going to be hard to beat in the primary. His opponent Huizenga is a limited Government guy with no political experience.
Jim's message was that he is the most electable and that by voting with the DFL he was getting things done. Don's message was that Jim is getting the wrong things done.
jay | 06.07.08 - 1:27 pm | #

speaking of demographics, you boys should look closely at Florida and Texas. Florida in particular has an old population and its getting older fast. There are already shortages of hospital beds and long term care facilities. It is headed to a perfect storm given its low taxes. Both states have large immigrant populations as well.

So move there but be prepared for big changes. Of course, a hurricane could end it sooner.
Al Gore | 06.07.08 - 3:50 pm | #

Mouse - I am in the highest tax bracket federal and state. I see taxes as an investment. My kids went to city public schools and excelled. My business here and investments here have made me pretty wealthy. I enjoy the amenities of living in Mn and despite having travelled all over the world, prefer to live here.

Its like people who hate their jobs - make the best of it or quit. Living here is a priveledge - move if you do not like it. But most people who live here like what they have and are willing to pay for it
Al Gore | 06.07.08 - 3:56 pm | #

Al, your knowledge of Florida compares favorably to the rest of your wealth of intelligence.
You don't know shit about that state either.
Kermit | 06.07.08 - 4:00 pm | #

Margaret
That depends on where in Wisc. you go. Pierce County is expensive for absolutely no damn reason. St Croix will catch up, but Polk County is very cheap, and with the Stillwater bridge going in, will be easily accessed. The land is much more beautiful than Pierce for building a retirement house. Far enough away from the city and close enough if needed.
Joel | 06.07.08 - 4:20 pm | #

Last monht I heard Governor Palenty comment that Minnesota has the the most generous wlfare benifits in the US. I was surprised no blog picked that up.

North Dakota currently has a $600 million dollar state budget SURPLUS while our "welfare state" has a half billion dollar shortfall.

North Dakota is poised to be the new oil leader with more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia. Here in Minnesota we have a welfare system that attracts poverty from everywhere in the world.

I can work from anywhere with a broadband connection. Maybe it's time to consider North Dakota
Greg Lang | Homepage | 06.08.08 - 3:31 am | #

No Representation without Taxation!
Emerson Twain | Homepage | 06.08.08 - 8:20 am | #

Gore, What kind of investment is it that brings a loss well-paying jobs to the state (NWA), and fewer and fewer workers to bear the load of paying for everything?

What new growing dynamic companies have relocated to Minnesota from elsewhere in response to such "investment"?
A. J. | 06.08.08 - 12:47 pm | #

I have two acquaintances who retired to the Texas hill country and they love it. Low taxes, inexpensive real estate, less intrusive government, fantastic steaks, and BBQ joints. Gotta get used to cowboy hats though.
A. J. | 06.08.08 - 1:14 pm | #

Yeah but they have a lot of people clinging to guns down there. Sounds like a good place.
Varmint hunting (2 legged variety) is looked upon as a community service too.
If they ever open the season on liberals I'm heading south.
yes Al, Doug, et al, that was a joke.
Mostly
maxx | Homepage | 06.08.08 - 3:40 pm | #

It is sad this state is on the same path that led to areas in Michigan and other liberal run regions to slide. The productive people get taxed more and more to pay for social services that attract unscrupulous system users whereas these taxes could help build economic development for the long run instead of causing a cycle of more poverty.
Businesses liquidate or move, housing-real estate neighborhoods that were once very nice and attracted upstart families get run down with poverty and dysfunctional trends, and the environment just starts to feel run down. You can really start to feel it beginning in parts of this state mainly the Mpls.st.Paul metro towns also areas of duluth and other cities.
MN lauds it high taxation for health care and education while the standard of living for everyone goes down each year.
Mccain | 06.08.08 - 7:35 pm | #

"Mccain", sadly, you are uninformed. The only path I see is your path to a worse area to live. Join maxx and go chase some varmints, see how far that gets you.

The state with the highest standard of living (at least in the things that money can buy), with a cost-of-living adjusted median income that's 17 percent above the national average, is Minnesota.
A commenter | 06.08.08 - 8:35 pm | #

Start running commenting varmint!
pig/dog | Homepage | 06.09.08 - 12:40 pm | #

"Living here is a priveledge"
You better renew your MN living license, 5Al, before you get your ass kick out of the state.


My Karma just ran over your Dogma
K-Rod | 06.09.08 - 1:02 pm | #

Texas has a surplus of doctors applying for licenses to practice. They passed tort reform and malpractive insurance in TX is way lower than other states, like MN.

My Dad just had a minimally invasive bypass done and he was out of the hospital in 3 days. The devices and procedure were invented in MN, but they are used in Texas. Yet another sad story of our regulations pushing out innovation to other states.

MN is slowing down as people can now work anywhere, so why stay in a high tax state with shitty weather?

You can say all you want about the schools, most of our friend's kids go to private schools, so that is a moot point. And we don't have kids.

Low tax states are the future, not high tax welfare magnets like MN.
Il Duce' | Homepage | 06.09.08 - 1:11 pm | #

From the Census:

DOCTORS PER 100,000 RESIDENT POPULATION, 2003

Minnesota 278 rank=10
Texas 212 rank=42

Source:
http://www.census.gov/statab/ran...nks/ rank18.html

You want world class health care, stay in Minnesota. You want Tracy's ideology, go to Texas, see how far that gets you.
A commenter | 06.09.08 - 6:57 pm | #