I'm lifting this one for TN, Chief.
Chief | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 3:01 pm | #

Sometimes I think that many on The Left have no respect for and/or understanding of what makes this country special and what has differentiated it from the rest of the world since it's inception.

Two words:

INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY

I guess for some that makes America and it's champions (i.e. conservatives & libertarians) "selfish" since we value the individual and self-reliance so much but we don't just value OUR freedom, we value that of others as well. That's not selfish, it's tolerant and enlightened.

If The Left do understand the idea of America, why do they always point to other countries as examples of what we should do to solve our problems? That's not to say that we can't learn anything from other nations but they seem to do this reflexively and uncritically.
McGruv | 11.01.07 - 3:17 pm | #

"The founders of my country foresaw a nation of individuals, loosely joined by the concurrent needs of commerce and self-defense." That worked well in the 1700's when people were much more self reliant.

An interesting idea is being thrown about -- its time for a new constitutional convention. The entire document would be open for revision and 2/3 of the states would need to ratify any changes.

The thought of the current Congress leading that charge is pretty scary but it should be considered in the near future. If public opinion is any indication, you would see significant changes in a number of the amendments. The second would radically change and restricted, the fourth would be brought up to date to include modern technology and I suspect the roles of the legislative, executive and judicial branches would be brought back into balance as they were intended.

Hell, its been close to 250 years -- its time it was dusted off and revisited.
Al Gore | 11.01.07 - 4:42 pm | #

The left just hates the Constitution don't they.

Don't even think of touching the second Amendment. You people are scared to death of an armed populace that you can't control. Just like communists every where.
Tracy Eberly | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 4:58 pm | #

"The left just hates the Constitution don't they." Wow, where did that come from? the idea is being discussed by both liberals and conservatives.

And if 2/3 of the states ratify changes to the 2nd amendment, thats called democracy, something I am afraid conservatives have forgotten quite a lot about since 2000.

"You people are scared to death of an armed populace that you can't control." Actually, liberals would prefer the rule of law -- much less messy.
Al Gore | 11.01.07 - 5:06 pm | #

The degree of agony involved in passing a Constitutional amendment is astounding. The belief that the document should be scrapped and replaced is terrifying. I mean it. Your scary crazy, Al.
Kermit | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 5:07 pm | #

Always get nervous when a liberal starts talking law-and-order... that usually means they are going to pull a fascist-fastball.
Badda | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 5:12 pm | #

That worked well in the 1700's when people were much more self reliant.

What? Do you mean now that a couple of generations of liberals have made every effort to pussify large swaths of the population to the point where they're overgrown children who have no self-control that The Constitution needs a makeover?

I honestly want to believe that deep down most liberals want and value freedom as much as I do, but comments like AG's above that show such utter contempt for our constitution really test my faith.
McGruv | 11.01.07 - 5:12 pm | #

Please tell me how rule of law helped the Olson girl that the Craigslist killer murdered?

I can tell you that had she been armed, she might have had a chance today.

The rule of law breaks down ever single day. Citizens protecting themselves does more than any police force ever can dream of doing.
Tracy Eberly | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 5:27 pm | #

Al's dreaming. To pull that shit the people would have to be disarmed first.
Who's gonna do it?
Al, you volunteering? Maybe the Code Pinkos or them baddass bikers at Critical Asshole will man up and give it a go.
maxxdog | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 5:41 pm | #

"Citizens protecting themselves does more than any police force ever can dream of doing."

Aside from the prophylactic benefit of patrolling, all police can do is respond to crimes already committed.
Kermit | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 5:44 pm | #

You guys are like pavlovian dogs. Mention the 2nd amendment, and you go into overdrive with the guns are good crap.

The constitutional convention would not scrap anything. It would allow, as our founding fathers wanted, for the states to have input into what provisions they hold important. And any changes would have to be ratified by 2/3 of the states.

It was predictable that you would never want anything like that to happen. Your views are not held by anything close to a majority of people and you know change would happen. Your views also do not stand up well in the light of close scrutiny.
Al Gore | 11.01.07 - 6:53 pm | #

Al, you are the P-dog. You maintain this absurd fantasy that you stand on some kind of populist crest, and you are totally clueless as to what "a majority of people" really believe. Instead you present a phantom "majority" to validate your own prejudices, without ever once offering proof to substantiate your position.

I would suggest you take a crash course in Federalism and read up on James Madison. Did you know he was a President?

Until you do you will continue to sound like an immature intellect. But hey, it's all good, right?
Kermit | Homepage | 11.01.07 - 7:19 pm | #

Mention the 2nd, or any part of the Constitution in the same paragraph with "radically changed and restricted" and you will illicit some comment. What do you think would happen if it was actually attempted?
So let's say, just for shits and gigles, that somehow the 2nd were to be radically changed and the peoples right to bear arms was eliminated.
How would you go about enforcing a ban on guns? Who would you recruit to collect the 300 million plus guns (a low estimate, IMO) from the 80 million (another low estimate IMO) people who own them? I'm serious Mr Gore, how would you go about the task of disarming the public?
pig/dog | 11.02.07 - 7:34 am | #

"somehow the 2nd were to be radically changed and the peoples right to bear arms was eliminated." Again like Pavlovian dogs. No one has ever suggested banning guns or disarming anyone. You might see some kind of national registration, something polls show a majority of people want.
Al Gore | 11.02.07 - 8:51 am | #

Well Maxx,

I think many liberals are either naive enough to think that 90%+ will turn them in freely like sheep and they are somewhat right.

They expect to have storm troppers go door to door for the remaining 10%, jailing anyone who doesn't follow the law.

In Edina, they'd be OK. In North they'd have a battle. There isn't enough money in the world to get me to try and take the weapons from Tennessee, Kentucky and the rest of the Deep South. Texas might just exercise it's right to suceed.

Many liberals fantasize about turning the armed forces on conservatives. They feel intellectually superior and figure we deserve it for supporting Bush and Reagan.
Tracy Eberly | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 8:52 am | #

That worked well in the 1700's when people were much more self reliant.

But thanks to the liberals today most of the people are not reliant on government rather than themselves.

What you don't get...what you REFUSE to get, is that in order to improve the situation you need to hit ROCK BOTTOM.

Look at what is going on in Hollyweird with people like Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan...it wasn't until they hit rock bottom that thye stated to even admit they had a problem and start to correct it.

Same is try with the "poor" people you think you are helping today. So long as you continue to enable their destructive behavior, they will NEVER change.

So...until the liberals allow people to sink of swim on their own, don't even THINK that a new Constitutional Convention will have ANY chance of success.
Brent | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 8:59 am | #

something polls show a majority of people want.

Can you please supply a link to that poll?

This is the first time that I've heard of this.
Brent | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 9:01 am | #

Here is one link to a Harris Poll in 2004:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com...dex.asp? PID=471

Gallup polls
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

Note the survey results that show overwhelming opposition to banning guns. No one is suggesting that.
Al Gore | 11.02.07 - 9:09 am | #

Thank you...I wasn't question your honesty on this, I just didn't hear it before and wanted to read up on what you were talking about.

Again, thanks for the links...I will try to read them in a bit a comment on them if need be.
Brent | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 9:11 am | #

I would say that teh majority of people are sick and fucking tired of govt in general. With an abyssmal approval rating for congress, an overwhelming majority can't stand the job they are doing. That, my friend, is a majority. when only 13% agree with you, and 87% don't, you're in deep shiite.
Jim W | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 9:11 am | #

While the post wasn't about the 2nd amendment, the concept of the boiling frog applies to it and most other Government programs. Incrementalism is the rule, whether it's SCHIP, school levys, smoking bans, or taxation. Do it little by little so no one really notices.
Kermit | 11.02.07 - 9:15 am | #

One comment on the Harris poll right off the bat...they don't seem to ask about enforcing the laws that are already on the books. THAT could very well be the interpretation of the interviewie to the question, "In general, would you say you favor stricter gun control, or less strict gun control?"

Just an observation.
Brent | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 9:15 am | #

Brent -- scroll down a bit. There are a number of poll questions on that. In most cases, people prefer enforcement over new laws.

I found the results for this question very interesting.

"What do you think is more important -- to protect the right of Americans to own guns, or to control gun ownership?"

scroll down a bit for the response. Overwhelming majority feel it is more important to control them than protect rights.
Al Gore | 11.02.07 - 9:20 am | #

Still working on them...only covered the top and then got busy but wanted to make that one observation before I forgot about it.
Brent | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 9:21 am | #

"No one has ever suggested banning guns or disarming anyone. You might see some kind of national registration, something polls show a majority of people want."


Al, it offends me greatly when people like you insult my intelligence. You know as well as I do that firearm registration paves the inevitable path to confiscation and that the left has been working tirelessly for years to achieve that.

In 1967 New York City passed a law stating that all shotguns and semi-automatic weapons had to be registered. Gun-owners were understandably nervous, but the gun-control zealots said not to worry, that nothing significant would come of it, that it was for everyone's protection, yadda, yadda.

Fast forward to 1991 when New York City declared an outright ban on the exact same tyes of firearms that were forcibly registered nearly 25 years earlier. Guess what? All the authorities had to do was look up registrations and go knocking on doors.

The only thing registration does is facilitate future confiscation.

You give yourself too much credit Al. You lefties are not as clever as you would like to believe.
Erik | 11.02.07 - 9:23 am | #

"I would say that teh majority of people are sick and fucking tired of govt in general. " Absolutely agree. The problem is not that the basic principle of government has become irrelevant. The real problem is that government and its effectiveness has been subverted by special interests, whether they be business or societal. I completely agree that Social programs need an overhaul and there has been some success there.

But cutting of funding for a program like SCHIP whose main purpose is to provide health care for ininsured children is foolhardy. Politics has tainted the original intent and ultimately those in most need of the benefits suffer.

I know many of you would like nothing more than to see the end to government funding for any programs other than defense and roads. But realistically, we all know that will not happen. We can work to elect officials who will bring back sanity and fiscal responsibility to government.
Al Gore | 11.02.07 - 9:27 am | #

I was interested to see that support for a ban has dropped in the last 10 years and gun ownership rose in one poll.

Concealed carry has really helped this. People are seeing that law abiding citizens can, and should, carry arms.

The leftist media has helped by printing numerous stories about underfunded police budgets, stories that are actually true. Honest cops will tell you if you want to prevent crime, own a gun. If you want to find out who committed a crime, call a cop and cross your fingers.

I think we should so the way of Switzerland and require gun safety trianing in the schols and them require each household to own a gun.
Tracy Eberly | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 9:44 am | #

"But cutting of funding for a program like SCHIP"

And that's where you are being dishonest. The actual spending for SCHIP would be increased under Bush's plan. He just doesn't want the MASSIVE increase the Left wants.
Nobody's "cutting" anything.
Kermit | 11.02.07 - 9:58 am | #

You might get 25% to turn in their guns voluntarily. The rest will ignore it, report them as stolen and seal them in PVC pipe and cosmoline then then bury them and a fair amount of people will fight. Make no mistake about the word fight.
Australia banned guns and got no where near the weapons turned in they thought they would. I don't know if anyone has checked but I'd be willing to bet they saw a uptick in PVC pipe sales.
Now shall we discuss the unknown weapons in the hands of the people?
I certainly don't own any but I know a lot of people who do.
pig/dog | 11.02.07 - 1:17 pm | #

Everyone that has grand dad's shot gun or dad's old rifle has an unregistered weapon.
Tracy Eberly | Homepage | 11.02.07 - 1:20 pm | #

Those are one of the reasons I believe the estimates of guns owned in this country are light.
pig/dog | 11.02.07 - 2:11 pm | #