Haha. I always though desirable traits were bluntness and honesty.
Just hope Jeb avoids the whole mess.
Nate,
He thanked me for doing what I did, and I quote:
"It shows how much you care for Nany."
Fathers are protective of their girls, and as I said, I have three more.
I feel the same way about my boy. I know that I'm going to raise him right, and make sure that he respects the girls he dates, as well as their families.
Reminds me of a joke, though, if you don't mind...
Denny... Buddy... If you treated me like ya treated him.. You'd still have 4.
And trust me... when they turn 30 and their still at home... you'll be a lot less protective.
You don't cry when they leave home. You cry when they stay.
This boy goes to his girlfriends' house to take her on a date. When he gets there, she's not ready yet, so her father takes him into the living room to sit and wait. Dad's watching TV, and so the boy sits down to watch, too. The family dog comes over a sits at the boy's feet.
Well, the boy's stomach is kind of nervous, and he has to pass gas. But he dare not do it in front of the girl's dad. Finally he thinks to himself, if I let go a little at at time, he'll think it's the dog. So, he lets a little out. Dad yells at the dog, "Rover!"
BTW,
Their fifteen-year-old big brother feels the same way.
Hey, the boy thinks, this is working! So, a minute later, he lets a little more out. "ROVER!" yells the dad. Wow, this is really working, thinks the boy. So, he decides to let the rest out.
The dad says, "Rover! Get over here before that boy sh*ts on you!"
And about your boy's sweet nature, Nate...wait till he turns 2 to 3...
Funny Astro... They said wait till he turns 6 months... then they said wait till he's a year... then they said 18 months.... Now I hear two or three. whatever.
My point wasn't so much about Jeb as it was about girls vs. boys in general. Boys are easier, and have a better disposition. Are they wilder? yeah. But I'll take wild over mean and manipulative anyday.
My boy still is pretty sweet natured, but at about 2 1/2, he started throwing things and having tantrums occasionally. And, from preschool, he picked up the habit of hitting and pushing. But, yes, he is definitely easier than my older daughter.
I met my wife’s folks the night I told them I was marring their daughter. No fight, no fuss. Of course when you’ve been out of college and on your own and the woman your going to merry is 30, they don’t seem to be as fussy.
I always showed up early in high school to meet the girl’s folks. I never had any problems with their parents. I always had them home about when I said.
One girl I dated mom asked me if I needed money for condoms once. I told her that I wasn’t sleeping with her daughter and that when I started she would know because I expected her to pay for the wedding.
Her mom had no problem when I took her daughter to Europe the next summer.
Oh, since my wife was 30 when we started dating and were married, I think that if we have kids, 30 might be a good age for them too.
I run a full house at my place, my wife and daughter make a pair and me and my two boys add in the three of a kind, I can tell you from experiance that I wouldn't have written any such retraction. Boys of other families in which I have no idea about their upbringing are the enemy...so are girls for that matter. I have never met Jeb (can't wait till I do), but I know his parents very well and I know he will be a good kid. If he were about 5 yrs older I would look into this prearranged marriage thing, because with very slight discrepancies (sprinklin' vs. Dunkin' as Nate would put it) I know his parents have the same values. I would like to have insight on the members of either sex that comes to my door looking for a date, and if I don't well...
It's all about protecting yourself and your own.
Guys, just so you know there are a lot of teenage boys out there who are good actors, and you can't be with your daughters 24-7. The best defense is always a good offense - teach your daughters right and they will be able to take care of themselves. My parents never had to worry (much) about me because they knew that I valued myself and would take care not to associate with the "wrong kind of boys." Plus, if I was ever in a situation in which I was uncomfortable, they knew I would call home and get Daddy to come get me.
Well, said RJK. There was a study done a few years back that said girls who were close to their parents, especially their moms, were significantly more likely to behave themselves sexually.
hm... i also commented on this on the previous thread...
i think it's a fine line. sometimes when kids are too sheltered and too close to home they kind of slingshot in the other direction once they are let loose. like pastor's kids a lot of the time.
many of the girls i knew who had more independence from the beginning were the ones who had the sheer stubborness NOT to have sex.
it's like the old adam ant song...
"don't drink don't smoke.. what do you do? must be something inside"
it's a tough issue....
I know if I keep hanging around concerned young parents like you guys, when that time comes for myself, at least I'll be a little more aware and prepared.
It's probably something I appreciate the most, it's not a perspective I was getting around my peers... now that's an understatement.
Nate - Have to disagree that girls are more selfish by nature.
My daughter (now 14), has always been rather secure. She gets straight A's, musically inclined, athletic, and has several very good natured friends. She has not had a selfish inclination at any age.
My boys (12 & 13), tend to be selfish, get angry easily, and try to get by with doing as little as possible. They need rules and supervision, or they are in trouble. They get average grades, get bored easily, and love horsing around.
Let me tell you the difference - and why your thesis is not totally correct (though I'm not questioning your assessment of Jeb)....
Our daughter didn't have any other siblings or cousins to compete for parents and grandparents attention. She went to work with my wife.
My wife worked for an older gentleman lawyer. (Incredibly kind fellow. When he retired he went to law school. He mostly did simple legal paper work, and wouldn't touch a contentious divorce - especially if kids were involved.) Anyway, when my wife was needing to type something up, the lawyer would read to our daughter.
Our daughter always received full instructions about why she should or shouldn't do or say something.
Our daughter is the oldest, and has received the most attention on both sides of the family. She knows what's going on, but makes extremely wise decisions. She knows what she wants. She knows she is going to college, and I bet she won't be doing much dating until she has the degree almost in hand.
The boys, on the other hand, will be a constant source of concern to us until they start showing some maturity in their decisions.
The boys weren't treated the same way. The siblings of my wife and I all started having kids about a year after we had our daughter. The boys weren't read to as much (even by the lawyer), and had to compete for attention. Birth order and other factors make a big difference.
DennisS,
You're daughter is the exception, not the rule. It's perfectly normal for girls to mature faster than boys, but that's mostly do to the fact that 'mature' means something different to psychologists.
You're daughter is not the exception because she is more mature than the boys. She's the exception because she seems to have been raised like an only child, and she doesn't think the world revolves around her.
Only children, reguardless of sex, are without question, the most spoiled and selfish kids you'll ever be around. Y'all must have true done a helluva job on her to prevent that. Congrats buddy.
On the retraction:
I wrote this because it occured to me that my daughters wouldn't be bringing any little boys home that I didn't already know. You see, Julie and I are not city people. We'll know every little boy in town, and we'll know their family, and their friends. We'll know where they go to church.
We would view a boy as an enemy who we didn't know. But that's not going to happen.
I met my nephew for the first about a month or so ago. I was expecting, because he's a boy, that he would be difficult to deal with, etc etc etc. My brother was.
Yet, I met him and he is a sweetheart. Four years old.
Thanks Nate. I agree on "spoiled and selfish" in regard to only children.
On the retraction: I too lived in a rural area where potential dates were all known. That's one reason I moved to the big city for college.
Looking back, I sure wish I would have changed jobs sooner so that I could have spent more time with the boys before the problems started poping up. (I used to work tons of forced overtime.)
I now know that it's a lot easier to give them attention when they need it, rather than try to undo the problems from lack of needed attention (including consistent rules enforcement).
When we told my (now) wife's parents that we were getting married, we didn't ask permission because we knew they would never give it (they are Muslim); instead we asked for their blessing. A 3-hr "discussion" ensued, which didn't end until they finally realised that their daughter's ultimate loyalties had shifted from them to me. If her father had threatened me like some of you were suggesting I would have made it clear that (a): he'd better be ready to also kill all the men in my extended family (40+), most of whom can kill a man-sized target at 400-yds+, and (b): his presence was no longer welcome in our home until such time as he aplogised and modified his attitude. If his daughter took his side she's not the girl for me. (cont.)
A couple years ago my wife's father was angry with her and disrespecting her. When I pointed that out, he said that it was none of my business, and I should stay out of it. I told him that everything about my wife was my business and he'd better get used to it. We had to break off relations with him until he apologised and changed his attitude. It took about 18 months and was hard on his wife and our 2 girls, but it was necessary. So just remember that when your little girl marries, threatening to kill the most important person in her life is an excellent way of driving them both away.
On what Tonya said - dead on. A lot of the girls I knew in high school and then college went completely wild when they moved into dorms. It was the first time in their lives that they hadn't been under mommy and daddy's thumb. They were getting drunk and worse all of the time. On the other hand, my parents raised me right and my "curfew" was pretty much..."How late do you think you'll be?...Okay, if it's going to be later than that, call us. Be careful. We love you."...And as a result, I didn't go to drunken college orgies aka frat parties et. al. I was responsible and still able to have fun.
The biggest reason for only children being spoiled and selfish - most of the parents are. I think it is completely unfair for people who can (physically and financially) to only have one child - that child in most cases will spend many lonely hours and never learn as well as children from multi-kid families the values of sharing with and helping each other. The reason they are always crying for attention from others is they are not accustomed to it being any other way, like they would be if they had siblings.
Nate,
From your post, it sounds like you've been around parents who are not training/disciplining their daughters very well.
My daughters are much closer to the way you describe Jeb than to the way you've described the girls you've seen.
I do agree, though, that any boy that comes to my house is an 'enemy' if I don't already know him or his family. But if the young man approaches me with the respect and deferrence you described in you post, he will certainly be welcome in my house.
Papa Pete - you handled that very well.
RJK - "I was responsible and still able to have fun." Very cool. I'm thinking I'll use your post to begin a discusion on responsibility with our kids.
Learning responsibility and boundaries that respect self and others is critical.
I learned responsibility the hard way. It's not just the gals that go crazy when they move from parents home to dorms. In the dorms I went to all the parties, drinking a 12-pack or more - 6 or 7 nights a week. Darn near flunked out - until I quit taking early morning classes (anything before 10am).
Strange... I didn't do any of that crap at college. I detested it.
One aspect of this that has been talked about is “court’n” vs. “date’n”.
“Court’n” is building a relationship and getting to know each other. The more formal the process the less likely the chance for problems. The couple may have alone time but not a lot of secluded alone time.
The current date’n style leaves a couple with a lot of secluded time alone. Boredom, curiosity and hormones can lead even the best kids astray.
Thankfully I have a good friend with a daughter a few months younger than Jeb. I figure we'll just marry them off and avoid this whole mess.
Nate:
That's the spirit!
We've already got our eye on one such fine young man. He's the son of some very close friends of ours in our Bible Study class at church.
"Strange... I didn't do any of that crap at college. I detested it."
You detested college? Hehehehe - I enjoyed it - at least parts of it. (I'm messin' wit yah.)
Actually, the party mentality ran a couple semesters. I ran out of money. Since I was putting myself through college, I found a job on a loading dock working 4 - 9am. That put an end to partying during the week (zero-tolerance policy of employer).
Since the main topic regards bringing kids successfully through adolescence to adulthood, what kind of drinking policy do you figure on having with your kids?
Courting versus dating. That's why you father's of daughters need to have porch swings. Lots of alone time right out on the front porch.
SB
The porch is a great place to be 'alone'
Dennis
Drinkin? It wont be taboo in my house. It will be something that they will be exposed to and grow up with it as a special occasion thing more than anything else (I'm not much of a drinker myself) I figure much damage is done by having so many things taboo and therefore unknown to children. A little exposure (innoculation) goes a long way towards stemming curiosity
Excellet point SB
A man I used to go to church with had three very good looking girls.
He invested heavily in electronics, pool tables, videos etc. He hated watching TV except for sports. I asked him why he had all those toys that he didn’t even like.
He said he knew that the boys dating his daughters liked them. He rather have his girls “date” boys in his house than out some place else. They always had the latest and greatest of everything. He also fed all the kids all the time.
The boys and everybody else were always welcome and he had very liberal curfew and noise limits. By the time a boy got to take his daughters out, he had already been “dating” her for free, the girls got to know the boys and dad got to know the girls friends.
I can’t wait to tell my wife that I’m buying a 64 in TV for the kids sake.
Res
Dont forget the XBox
Res:
Lucky for me, my wife is already very in favor of this approach!
"A little exposure (innoculation) goes a long way towards stemming curiosity"
I wasn't a drinker in high school, that just wasn't my scene. But if my parents cooked with wine, they'd let us try some with dinner. And when my Russian teacher took some students on a summer trip and I wasn't able to go, I gave her some cash to buy me vodka...when she came back with it, I made bloody marys. My parents just laughed about it. They knew that I wasn't drinking at parties, and by NOT treating alcohol like it was some big taboo, they also made it NOT a big deal. I went to college a lot more well-adjusted then most kids as a result.
Ha ha, Nate, I like this post. You said some good, true things, here. By the way, in the other post, in which the regulars (myself included) tried devising 1,001 ways to scare off the boyfriend, let me assure you, my comments were meant to be in good fun, nothing more. And your point about the behavior of little girls vs. little boys, in general, is correct.
" my comments were meant to be in good fun, nothing more."
Wes
You backpedalling now that you know this blog is 'monitored'? 
Erik, that is an excellent idea.
Sarah
The umm taboo stuff? or getting an XBox?
Cuz I kinda like both ideas really. 
The taboo stuff..but the X-box..well, sure that is good too.
Please don't let Vox read this. He already wants an game room in the basement. I probably shouldn't have encouraged it by buying him a Ms.Pacman maching for his birthday. Oh well...
Are you afraid he'll never come out?
Cool, I'd like a game room..I could keep an entertainment center down there, Jay would have his playstation, we could keep computer down there for computer games and internet, maybe a ping pong or pool table or something like that, a couch, a small fridge or bar down there to put some drinks (soft drinks, wine, etc) and snacks, a microwave (for heating up popcorn and the like), a tea kettle, that is a cool idea - thanks, SB! hehehe I think we'd both like it..
hey, and it would be even better if this room also had a fireplace..it would be a room cozy with the fireplace at one end and lights down there that can be dimmed at any level one wants..
Save it for the bedroom Sarah =oP
Erik, you totally messed it up! That wasn't what I was thinking of at all...ROFL..ok, that thought did occur to me, but it occurs to me whenever I talk about him so that isn't an issue..
the fireplace, the food bar - that is just the accessories for the game room. The game room would actually have real games..and I actually thought about this last night.
The fireplace will have a rug in front of it...get the board games in there too..get a chess board as well although knowing both Jay and I, we'll probably be spending that time playing Halo together or something like that instead.
It would be awesome! It'd also be good for entertaining.
Sarah, I'm all for that kind of game room, he's thinking more along the lines of an arcade with several large games. All the classics of course.
One of the great truisms is that there are only two aphrodesiacs in the world:
Alchohol, and Fire.
A fire in a fireplace or preferably a wood burning stove drops more panties than anything this side of 2 bottles of white zinfindel.
Nate! shhhhhhh!
(I most certainly didn't say that we wouldn't break that room in...but it would STILL be a game room! That is it's primary purpose. We can just as easily have another fireplace somewhere else in the house - preferably with large glass windows in that room, the kitchen off to the side (it would be an open concept house). Aw, that'd be so romantic! *sigh* I miss Jay.)
Perhaps, SB, you could use this thing to your advantage.
Sarah, I had a fireplace in the bedroom a couple times. Never got you 'use' them but it was a nice concept.
SB
Having a bunch of the classic arcade games would be really cool. And an air hockey table.
Erik:
Har har har. Don't mean to backpedal, just wanted to make sure I didn't offend my good ol' blog buddies. And Hillary Clinton, if you're monitoring this blog, please, for me: GO BACK TO HELL!
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