postmodernism, in it's true roots may or may not have been what you are saying. i'm not entirely sure, and i don't care. call it what you want, but the mindsets of people are changing all over the place, especially in the US and Europe. they are moving away from the modern mindset.
the church, and specifically the emerging church, is trying to address the shift in mindset. they aren't "buying" into the postmodernism that you are talking about. they are trying to reach people that aren't reached by the modern church.
Is that supposed to be a disagreement? If so I missed it.
As for the strength of the movement... I'm thinking you exajurate it. The greatest movement spiritually in Europe is Islam.
Nate, I don't think you completely grasp the war on terror. It's not a shooting war, it's a war of ideas and Islam is losing. They know this, which is why they attacked.
You're paying too much attention to the bullets, look at everything else. We're winning, it's inevitable. What we're seeing is Islam's death throes.
The Marines can't beat Islam. MTV will crush Islam like a bug. All we need to do is let our culture take root somewhere (anywhere) in the Mideast. The risk is Islam nuking us before we get them all TV's.
"...I'm not trying to raise the level here..."
Oh, you needn't worry about that.
Heh.
Do you really think that MTV/our current moral-less culture of materialism is what is going to bring down Islam? I think when our culture begins to infiltrate theirs, the opposite is much more likely.
Most of what Nate is saying about post-modernism is right, but we have had some good post-modern lit come out of it. Puig fans anyone?
Post-Modernism is about relativism (not just moral relativism), multi-culturalism, and 'tolerance'. Notice I put tolerance in quotes.
with deconstructionalism comes reconstruction. as the modern world is changed by the internet, MTV, cell phones, blogs, whatever, so does culture and how we percieve it. the modern mindset isn't going away anytime soon, much like the medieval mindset didn't fully morph into modernism overnight. and really, there are many 3rd world countries still in the medieval mindset and are slowly being converted to the modern mindset. therefore our modern way of doing things will make sense to them.
i'm not saying there is a spirtual awakening in Europe. i'm saying the mindset is in Europe, and Christ is a myth to many of them, because the church has failed to reach them where they are. that's where postmodernism, culture, and the church collide.
There are three forces; Christianity, Humanism (or your favorite label) and Islam (religion du jour). These have always been at war, with humanism and Islam sometimes ganging up on Christianity.
Islam, in this context, is simply another way for Mankind to act out his internalized moral sense without the need for an individual Saviour. There are umpteen variations on this. In short; we work ourselves into heaven by being "good" however it's defined for that moment, and thus assuage our moral sense.
Humanism is the acting out of the notion that the moral sense we have is due to mankind's innate goodness. In short; humans can perfect themselves through good works.
Christianity is acknowledging that our moral sense is God-given, and recognizing that our only hope is God's redeeming grace. Surprisingly (this strikes most Christians as blatant heresy) there are redemption stories in *every* society. The other constant in every society is a sense of morals.
Bill -
Hate to say this, but you are sounding alot like a guy named Nikita who got caught pounding his shoe in the kitchen one day screaming the same thing about the "dialetic" and America. The West nullified the dialetic with the idea of freedom, which was embraced by his fun loving commie's children.
The children of islam have been indoctrinated to reject what we in the west call freedom - they even see MTV and western values, Christian values, as a terrorist attack on islam.
Islam is losing? HA! Bill come on... As america becomes in reality more and more what Islam percieves it to be, it approaches its death.
Losing? Seriously... how can you say this? Islam is by far the fastest growing religion in the world. Kashmir was not the death throws of a dying faith Bill. That's just ignorant. Kashmir was the open shots of the next great war.
Don't get bored guys.. Another grand tale should be available in the morning.
Islam is by far the fastest growing religion in the world
False. Christianity is growing much faster than Islam.
Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world
Of note, Christianity increases by about 69,000 people per day, all through one-on-one individual conversions counted my Churches and missionaries. Islam increases by about 68,000 per day, due to birth rates in Muslim countries.
Er, "...counted *by* Churches..."
The key is, the hate that is directed against Christians is not being responded to in an active way. Too many are sitting on the sidelines wringing their hands, crying "Woe is me."
Humanists have conned many into thinking "tolerance" when ideas from an anti-Christian, anti-western point of view are espoused, and used the same arguement to prevent a pro-Christian, pro-western point of view to even be mentioned.
That's the Humanists. Now the Islamists just flat out hate. Hate fuels the actions, hate fuels the violence, hate is at the core of their fight, both physically and spiritually. We see the hate they have in the wars they fight, in the actions of terrorists, in their treatment of other.
Currently Christians are still building up the grim determination needed to fight that hate on every level. It's there, Christ has called us to be willing to carry that fight, but we're just begining to understand what that means once again.
The future of the world all depends on whether the Western world is ready to 'sink' to the barbarity level of Islam in order to make itself understood. Some people only understand the language of violence. The only way that Islam can be put back in it's place (and I don't refer to Islam in general, I mean the Islamicist Death Cult version) is for a VERY public, painful lesson to be taught. It's gruesome for sure but absolutely necessary. Question is, will the Western world be ready and willing to do it before it's too late? I know I am. What about the people that we vote for?
No, Frog...politically incorrect.
Christendom is gone. Europe has fallen into a stay of moral decay that may be uncounterable. There are only three possible outcomes. The first being a social transformation both the western and eastern world -- very unlikely. A second would be a global conquest by Islam with minimal resistance (most of the conquest would simply involve taking over democratic countries though superior numbers). Or third, an global confict resulting in the jihad losing. I'm not putting my money on anything, but something is gonna happen soon.
Christendom is gone
Uhhh, NO.
Christendom is spreading like wildfire in Africa and China, and not that wimpy "Social Gospel" Feel Good pap that many US Churches are pushing, it's the old-time Anglican brand of Christianity. The guys that take the "go buy a sword" command seriously.
God doesn't lose.
Anyway, postmodernism is only taking hold because people are lacking enough faith to say, "This is BS, you can't seriously believe that gibberish, can you?"
I read somewhere that many Chinese Christians are training to be missionaries to the Middle East. I also heard that missionaries from Africa are going to the UK. I hope this is true and I wish them good luck.
Penciloid, you are correct, sir. I have a Nigerian Catholic friend who told me that many Catholic priests from Africa are going to Europe and North America to do mission work! How's that for turning the tables?
Astro -
The latest stats I heard were that the U.S. now is the 13th largest receiver of missionaries in the world. This was as of 2002. Also, Chinese Christians are preparing to go to the Middle East because they are not the typical "Christians" that a moslem would suspect.
Well, how about that. I have a lot of respect for those Chinese Christians. From their viewpoint, it might be safer to go to the Middle East mission field than stay home. It's easy to be a Christian over here in the U.S.
Let's keep them all in our prayers, shall we?
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