Ya' can't argue with 'em, man.
This is why they 'feel' something instead of thinking it.
When a chick asserts a feeling you can't disagree with it, argue it, or criticize it.
This is feminine 'logic'.
Feelings, not thoughts.
Friendly observations here:
Nate, you're a house-husband, not a house-wife.
I bet our friend Lynnette is not ugly at all, but rather quite cute.
Your blog turned into "Hannity & Colmes" today, a bunch of opinions shouting at each other.
I've been hanging out here and at Vox's for a few months now, and from all that Nate has posted, I don't see how Nate's comments about women are in any way meant to tear women down or make them "lesser". Face it. Men and women are different, and were created that way. One's not "better" than the other, but we do have our roles.
Well, let's try to be a little nicer when we tear dissenting visitors' arguments to shreds.
"fascists"..."nazis"...OK, dude, whatever. Try "Christian Libertarians".
i'm too left-brained to accept feelings over logic...annoys the hell out of me
Feminist "logic" is a contradict in terms. It is an oxymoron of sorts. KLR is right, for feminists it is feelings over substance, emotion over reason.
Feminism does little but destroy what it truly means to be a woman, and in the process destroys a part of the societal fabric of the country as well.
WOW!
Cool chick!!
The root of feminism is evil. Strip it to its black heart, and you find the contempt that one bitter woman has for another woman, who had the audacity to be happy.
Somehow this corrolates to the modern practice of raising Fairness over Justice...
Say did anyone else chuckle at Shawn and Linette's fear of extremists? Let's see.... Christ... Paul... Both extremists... Yeah... I think I'll stick the extremist deal for now.
Nate, you reminded me of a passage in Acts, and I looked it up.
Acts 17:16-34, Paul in Athens, where he stands before the people there, with all their false gods and idols, and preaches the Gospel. I bet they all thought he was an extremist nut, too.
Chuckle? Are you serious. These people are voicing OPINIONS.. based in logic. Not for your own humor. Extremism when RIGHT is a good thing. However, extremes historically have been DANGEROUS. Crusades? Holocaust? Sept 11? That, is logic... and ironically it came from a female.
Root defintion of feminism... Go back to Susan B. Anthony. Was she evil? Hmmm... equality for a better society. What a concept! I imagine that your wife's voting rights are important to her and you. THAT is where feminism HISTORICALLY begins. Thank you.
And her name is LYNNETTE.
Here's a verse of note from that passage:
Acts 17:21 "(All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)"
Sound familiar?
Nate,
Your point about extremism is well taken. As I recall Christ had something to say about it too:
"15 "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth." Rev. 3:15-16
Christ wasn't into compromise and doesn't appear to be interested in those who try to walk down the center-line. He wants you at either end of the spectrum, not in the middle.
Jo, if i had a man to vote for me...i'd be happy if it were just men voting...i'm not the one that's going to be going off to war.
Jo, I got her name right.
Feminism at its historical roots was not evil in and of itself. The right to vote, the right to own property, the right to not be considered the property of their husbands, the right to pursue careers outside of teaching and nursing, etc. Those are reasonable things. Women are not stupid, or children, and should be treated with respect.
However, we are more than 100 years removed from those roots. Feminism evolved in that time to something different, and in some respects evil. What I mean is that today's feminism involves a denial of human nature. Also, a more extreme form of it seeks not "equality" with men, but "superiority" over men. The denial of human nature revolves around the biological fact that it is women who bear the children. Without the bearing of children, humanity would die.
Jo,
First of all honey, unwad your panties. No one here hates your friend. She's not going to get hurt. She doesn't need your protection. You have my personal guarantee. It's my blog. That means I get to delete any post that I want. You're loyalty to your friend speaks well of you.
You're knowledge of history needs some work though. The crusades, inspite of what you learned in school, were reactions. They were defensive actions taken in response to the first and second expansions of Jihad. cont...
Nate, just wanted to put a little note in here (not that it matters much) my blog has been taken down from my IP perspective. I see others can still go there, cause sitemeter is telling me I'm still getting hits... I haven't been able to access it for 2 days now. I'm thinking this may be shenanigans on someone's behalf at mblog.com.
ummm...humanity would die without the guys too, if i remember correctly in sex ed. class
The attempt, and it has been quite successful, to alter the sexual dynamics between men and women, has led to the growing destruction of the nuclear family, which will lead to the destruction of the overall society. That's where the evil comes in.
Look at the demographics of the west. We are dying out, we are not replacing our populations. Why? Our women are pursuing careers instead of families, our men are pursuing every piece of tail they can find, our children are left to fend for themselves, because their "parents" aren't there for them.
Did The Pill and Abortion even things out, or did they irrevocably destroy the basis for our society? We no longer have to face the responsiblity for our sexual relations.
Ah, heck, I'm tired, I could go all night, but I won't.
Jo,
Go ahead and make your case for why Nate is wrong and L is right. Email it to Nate if it’s too long, he’ll give you a fair post.
Your point about L and extremism, big problem here she never made it, she lied about making it in a latter post to distract from her inability to address the issue at hand.
Kinda like your using it now.
That is not where I am coming from where I say, "I am a feminist." I want to have children. I want to adopt children also. I love, honor, and cherish my husband. That goes both ways... we are both humbled before God. However, when I meet with a student or a girl from church do don't say be superior, I say be proud. Don't be looked down on because you are a girl. Believe it or not, I can tell you as a public school teacher... that STILL happens.
I'm sorry. We have prayed together, cried together, and shared those things that people seeking Christ do for SIX years. Her name is spelled Lynnette. Just do my a favor, I am not saying you have to embrace where she is coming from, but please don't belittle it. She is worth more than that as a person. We all are.
actually.. no... I'm not going to continue... Sarah and the Gang can handle this silly "Feminism is about freedom" assertion as well as I can anyway. Have fun... I have a tale to type up!!!
Oh... and about that chuckle... Jo... This is my blog. It's here for laughs and fun. The simple fact that someone holds an opinion mean nothing. They have to be able to back it up with reason and fact. The challenge is still on the table. Explain why Lynette's assertion is more correct than mine, or shut up.
No one here wants to hear someone bitch because their opinion wasn't respected. No opinion is respected here unless you bring the guns out to back it up.
Yes, Joy...1000 char limit... my point was leading to birth control, and that if women stop having babies, there's nothing men can do about it. Sex without responsibility, sex without consequence. That's what our parents' generation, the Baby Boomers, left to us after their Sexual Revolution.
Yeah, thanks a lot Mom and Dad.
(I mean that generally, not specifically)
oh.. and I do apologize ladies.. I'm sure you'd get a kick out of looking through my Harem. Sadly I got to much traffic, and it's down.. but check back on June 1. Then you can see my girls.
Say! We've been talkin' about how much fun it would be to have a feminist in the Harem! All ya have to do is send a picture!
Nate, in your comments on men and women, don't universalise your personal experience. I'm glad it works for you and your friends, but for every person you name that these "rules" work for, I could name as many more where they have led to catastrophe. Just a brief example, my father was a Friends minister. He made the decisions about what church he went to unilaterally, to the great detriment of our family. He didn't consult with my mother or us kids about what we wanted or needed and it led to hard feelings that took years to overcome. If Dr. Who wants you to make the decisions for the family, super. But don't assume it's for everyone.
NATE!!! i'm so proud of you...you spelled 'apologize' correctly!! yea!
"Friends minister"
Like on the TV show?
Nate, Contrary to popular belief, you are not the brightest fish in the sea, or even the wisest, most chivalrous or most articulate. When you write in such a condescending tone, you elimate the validity of your argument. It's an embarrassment. First of all, a feminist, in it's most basic definition, is a person who belives in equal rights for women. Consequently, I am a feminist - I support women's right to vote. My father too is a feminist - he supports women in the church; as is my brother who is a painter married to a doctor and believes in her right to make as much money as the men in her field.
. . . con't: To base an entire movement - one which is a voice for human rights that happens to centers around women - around an extremist view that some women have is the same as calling all baptists money-hungry televangelists, or all Catholic priests pedophiles. It's the same as calling all men chauvenists, all black people violent and all French people nudists. Are you even listening to yourself?
"Sadly I got to much traffic, and it's down.. but check back on June 1. Then you can see my girls."
Does that mean it will stay up for the whole month, or just until traffic maxes it out again?
And if you want to bring scripture into the picture, meet Phoebe, the courier and interpreter of Paul's letter to the Romans (not to mention a deacon). Meet Prisca, Mary and Junia - all apostles. Meet the elect lady of 2 John to whom the letter is addressed. Nice job of creating a controversial blog - if that was your intention. However, if your intent was to present your well educated, well reseached, and thoroughly experienced views, then i think you need to go back to the drawing board. Best of luck. Save yourself any further embarrassment and stop writing about feminism. Peace, Ann
again, it's not to exclude the wife from the decision-making process. the guy needs to decide for himself, and be flexible to wife's desires/needs.
and these are labelled as 'general guidelines' about women. nate mentioned at the beginning that there are always exceptions to the rule. also, it applies to pretty much all women who are of 'wife-material'. if these do not apply to a girl and you are a real man, don't even waste your time on her.
Papapete,
When did I suggest a man should make Unilateral Decisions? I've never suggested that the wives of men should not be consulted, nor have I suggested that their opinions, and needs should not be tended too.
Resispa said it best... as he often does... Look at the society that lived by my model, and look at modern society which does not.
Which would you want to live in?
Leading.. and Dominating.. are different things.
"...married to a doctor and believes in her right to make as much money as the men in her field."
Ann, this has always been an illusion. In the market, a company will pay top dollar for whatever talent is out there. If women are on average getting payed less, then that is purely a reflection of their worth in the field of business as compared generally to men. It's not a conspiracy or an act of oppression, it's the reality of competition. Trust me, if I stumbled across a girl that was worth paying top dollar for, I'd have to, or someone else would steal her away by offering more...
Ann,
It must be nice to define the whole world as feminist. I mean after all, that way everyone agrees with you and you must therefore be right. WEEEE!!! Doesn't that make you FEEL good?
If feminism is about property rights and voting... Why do we still have feminists? Ms Beauvoir is by no means an extremist. She was one of the true driving forces in the early movement. You can't take a feminine studies class in america without reading about her.
By your broad definition I am a feminist. Instead of making a point, you've rendered language meaningless.
cont.
I think Ann is trying to shut you up, Natalie. Blasphemin' ain'tcha!
By all means, stop embarrassing yourself. Lord knows Oprah wouldn't approve.
Like, don't you watch 'The View'?
You just don't 'get it' do you, Nate.
Ann, nate has never said that women don't deserve to vote or equal pay. i think it is just that women do not need to neglect the proverbs 31 woman. his wife is the breadwinner in the family now, a doctor, actually.
Feminism disguises itself to unsuspecting people like yourself to think that it is solely about equality, when in fact it IS based on hate. once they got a foothold in your life, they can then get deeper and pull someone to a deeper lie that men are the enemy. it's craziness.
Ann,
“Nate, Contrary to popular belief, you are not the brightest fish in the sea, or even the wisest, most chivalrous or most articulate”
Nobody here believes that anyway, that image makes as much sense as a virginal Bane at a Mary Kay party sipping tea and nibbling watercress sandwiches. (Sorry in advance Bane, but you get the point)
What Nate does do is provide this little forum for our little chats and he makes some good points that neither you or the other gals have addressed.
As for the rest of your silly little rant... I shall tell you what I told Joe. Unwad your panties. If you can't take it, you see the door. Don't let it hit your pretty little ass on the way out.
I don't give a crap who thinks I'm educated or articulate. I do this for fun. Read the rest of the blog man. Get to know me, and the rest of us before you make statements exposing your own mis-education.
Labeling Beauvoir an extremist and claiming her views don't reflect the views of feminist is simlpy intellectually dishonest. You can't embrace the movement then damn the founders.
Oh.. and ain't it a hoot that Susan B. Anthony will only be remembered for her sewing?
you're right KLRboy... and I have a story to write up anyway.. y'all will get a kick outta this.. check in the mornin' for a chuckle.
You can take this sort of delusional thinking back to Babeuf's Conspiracy Of The Equals in 18th century France. Take one of feminisms finest, Virginia Woolf, arguing in her book, A Room Of One's Own, why wasn't there a female Shakespeare? Cause women were not given space, and 'room's of their own' she claims. This is pure speculation, because the fact is, there was no female Shakespeare!
The cream will always rise to the top, if it is there. Women are what they are, they should take the empirical evidence of their nature, just like men, and celebrate its strengths, not dwell on its drawbacks. Why would you want to be exactly like men anyhow? It ends up being gender self-hating. I'd like to be able to sing like Sam Salter, but I can't... that's reality.
Nate,
"Get to know me, and the rest of us before you make statements exposing your own mis-education."
Your start'n to sound like L and Jo now.
Quick kill someth'n and eat some red meat.
Ugh...I hate it when I am summoned from my slumber...that being said, I love the name Ann, she of the willowy neck and ascerbic wit.
If you are going to crap on someone's lawn, Ann, make it a manageable turd, sandwich baggie size, and not too redolent.
Resispa, I am stung...I love finger sandwiches, and avoid Tupperware and Pampered Chef parties due to my round heels and inability to say NO...I keep their catalogs mixed in with my Easy Riders and Victoria's Secrets...I do not condone Mary Kay, but I support my wife's habit...
Ya, but virginal too?
Well, not since 12, but it was her idea.
"Mommy? Is this wrong?"
Bonus points for oblique movie reference...
I do find it interesting that neither Lynette, Jo, or Ann have actually addressed WHY they are right and natalie is wrong.
Their very silence on this makes nate's point stronger and stronger.
i think the trio finally got the point that because they can't/won't defend their beliefs, it's best to leave.
"If you are going to crap on someone's lawn, Ann, make it a manageable turd, sandwich baggie size, and not too redolent."
Bane, nice metaphor work.
Joy,
Well, if they can get past their emotional reaction to the discussion, I'd actually like to see what they have to say to defend their position on feminism.
I'm sure this place must look like a viper's nest to them right now.
I find it interesting in an amusing sort of way, that L and Jo and even Shawn are so worried about hurting their feelings. Excuse me, but I don't know of many guys out there who get into a discussion and then worry about getting their feelings hurt or hurting the feelings of their friends. Yep, equal. BTW, where exactly are these rights you are talking about delineated? Right to equal pay for equal work? Sure, don't take time off to have a baby - it is your right as a women and it is my right as an employer to hire someone who isn't going to do that.
Sorry for the disjointedness, but I'm a bit distracted by my surroundings. Ann, if your going to fling biblical references for feminism around perhaps you should reread the bit about submissive wives and servant husbands and think about what it means.
I find it amusing how a two sentence blurb at the end of a letter somehow equates a woman with the Apostle Paul
You know.. not to bludgeon a deceased equine... but umm..
Did anyone notice Jo go out of her way to demonstrate my point? I believe she said extremism is dangerous. It's dangerous because of A, B, and C. In other words... You shouldn't be extremist, because extremism scares me.
Fear. The need for a male to relieve that fear.
Thanks darlin'. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Oh.. and Res... I mispoke. In the it you referenced... I wasn't trying to say she should get to know us personally. I meant he she should know our level of education on the matter and our positions. I was hoping for that 'mis-education' to communicate that.. sometimes I blow it... my bad.
"Right to equal pay for equal work? Sure, don't take time off to have a baby - it is your right as a women and it is my right as an employer to hire someone who isn't going to do that."
I read somewhere (?) that women actually make more than men if you calculate it based on actual hours worked...meaning taking out the time off for babies, etc.
I'll try to find the actual source.
And Parapete - if you're out there, did you ever email me that recipe? I never got it.
Nate,
It was late. Things happen. In case you missed it last night I also called you a Red Neck Rhodes Scholar, accused Bane of being a virginal pretty boy, all but called KLRman a fag, and he agreed and your invited to the wedding as soon as your sister in law knocks of my wife, were honeymooning in Columbia, and boy is Red pissed.
All in All, not a bad day blogging.
Someone please tell me how this statement:
That is NOT one less thing she has to worry about. She's happiest when you already have a plan. Is the plan subject to change? Absolutely. Chicks dig flexibilty.
can be misinterpreted to mean this:
gee...i would LOVE to live a life where i just sit in the corner with my mouth shut, try to look as pretty as i can, and wait for the almighty male figure to tell me what i ought to think and do.
Chris, first you need to get out your handydandy feminist translation guide.....
SB,
You're a hoot.
SB,
Do you know offhand where I can get one of them guides? We might want to band together as a group and order a bunch...
RJK, yes I did Email it. Does your email take attacments? I'll try again. Look for pschuler@sbcglobal.net.
RJK, there seems to be a formatting error on your emai address. Send me your correct email address and I'll send the recipe.
Gee wiz guys, we lose the radical feminists and first thing you know we go right to swapping recipes.
This was so much more fun when I had nut cases to pick on.
Nate what happened to your friend Shawna? Did he chip a nail and give up the fight?
Sorry, Res, but I really like to cook...Parapete, my email is
rebekahjk@msn.com. I can usually receive attachments no problem. Thanks for going to the trouble.
lol..oh, I love this! I wish so much I was here earlier!
Nate, the term 'ex-feminist' as it has to with me should be qualified in that I was only a teenager when I was a feminist socialist. Hey, but I can tell you that the words 'I hate men' were in my brain a lot..as well as the idea that I am oppressed merely because I can't lift an equal amount of weight as men because, of course, men and women are completely equal in every way!
Chomping at the bit - well, I try not to repeat what other folks are saying but I think Jo and Ann have pretty much exposed that enough as it is...
Jo, Ann, small piece of advice that I myself have learned through harsh experience - don't let your emotions guide you when you are thinking seriously about something and don't make assumptions of the other person. You don't want to make an ass of yourself, do you?
All I can say here is that Nate is far from condescending nor is any male here (unless my perceptions are completely screwed) condescending towards women as individuals or as a group. In fact, I think I am treated better by men of Nate's thinking (or similar) than I am by other men.
Feminism is not about freedom. That is a load of balogney..but other folks have already handled that.
Oh, folks, um, my tooth is probably abscessing. The pain was quite severe last night. It's better now but I can still feel the infection - that warm fluid escaping from the tooth. I have to spit it out every now and then...prayers needed. As well, I don't want it to be too expensive to fix. My Mother is paying for it - and I feel bad that she is doing it - but she hated seeing me in pain last night. I should have called them sooner but I was hoping I'd get the resources needed before it abscessing.
Alright, I know I could have done it earlier and given my Mother an IOU..it would still be cheaper..
but - feminists, this is an object lesson for you -
emotions should never trump reality. I was too worried about putting off my Mother so I put it off anyways even though it was the unwise thing to do.
This is also a fine example of a time when a good male should have thrown you in the car and taken you to he dentist whether you wanted to go or not! Where was your boy? Times like this are what he's around for.
Nate, he's in a different country...where have you been, boy?
Wow, Sarah, get that fixed and get better. A friend of mine had an abcessed tooth and it was horrible. Get it fixed!!!!! and take all the antibiotics they give you until they are gone.
Sarah, I'm not kidding here, so listen up...
I had an abcessed tooth once, and also had to drive from the valley up to a high mountain town. As I ascended, I felt more and more pressure in my jaw, until I finally had to pull over. I looked into the rear-view mirror and saw a yellowish bump had formed on my gumline. I gingerly touched it, light as a feather, and suddenly this white/yellow silly string was shooting out of my mouth...it seemed to last for several seconds, and the relief was jawgasmic...and the pain was gone. My mirror and dash was festooned with the stuff.
So, go find a mountain...
Natalie, he is in the US..I have complained about it before and he told me to call the Dentist. I told him I didn't want to get my Mother upset and he told me to do it anyways. He then offered to pay for it. I didn't want to have him pay for it so I - uh - downplayed it. I then stopped complaining about it.
RJK, we should be together now. It's not right that we have to be apart like this - but we aren't the only couple to go through that because of immigration issues.
Yes, my Mother is calling me constantly from work today asking if I'm ok and then asking me how my dentist hunt is going.
Don't worry about it, folks, I was only asking for prayer. Don't let this thread wind down with my woes and pains. *S*
Sarah and Bane - been there, done that as well.... my dentist looked at me and about slapped me silly. She was happy on one account though - she was on call that Thanksgiving weekend, and coming in that Wednesday kept her from having to come down from her cabin up north for the TWO emergency root canals she had to do. And yes Bane, that pressure relief was sooooo needed.
Bane, that is a gum boil. A tooth abscess is an infection that develops as a result of the exposed pulp. Nasty bacteria get in there and start to kill the pulp..the immune system pumps into gear and starts getting the immunity cells together to fight off the infection. It then develops an abscess - sometimes a boil where the fluids sort of mass together in it's attack against the tooth. With an abscess,
If you leave it too long, you can get blood poisoning.
You see, folks, I've done my research. 
Shawn, Ann, Jo, L,
I'm coming very late to this conversation obviously, but if you're still here I think we're still waiting for some substantive critique of Nate's posts.
And by that, I do not mean crying about being "attacked" when your emotion-based assertions fail to measure up as an objective point of discussion, ad hominem and essentializing attacks on Nate's character, radically misinterpreting his original points to fit your preconceived srawman, etc.
It's nice to know that your friend is such a good person, but that's hardly relevant to this discussion of IDEAS, now is it?
I may sound a bit edgy, but I have reason to. For years (decades) I was deceived by the feminist indoctrination I suffered under as a teen. I really thought less of myself as a man.
Daisy Cat is every bit the real woman, and I could have spared us years of discord if I had understood long ago some of these basic premises that Nate has laid out here. It was only after we married and more especially in the last few years that I have begun to finally figure out just how deeply this crock of shit called "feminism" has damaged the relations between the sexes.
It's taken me a while to come up to speed on being a "real man", but Daisy Cat will be that much the richer when I finally get it right.
So you can poke at strawmen all day while we mock your efforts, or you can actually tell us why you think (not feel) Nate is wrong.
Sarah - I know how hard it is to be apart from the person you love...just keep the faith, and everything will work out as it should. Also, find a dentist, and don't listen to Bane - his is not the way to handle it! As for your mom paying, I've been there to, but I learned that she was in more pain watching me suffer and she didn't care about the money aspect. Just be glad you have a mom who loves you enough to do things for you and cares more for your health than her pocketbook. (just like all moms should)
Still no response from Ann? Perhaps she's so busy being equal to men in every way, that the irony of throwing a rant bomb then not having the CAJONES to stick around and engage escapes her. Or perhaps in her little world we've all been slapped down and cowed from any further discussion by her stunning brilliance, hence no need to stick around. Darn, we lose... So Nate, when ya shuttin the blog down?
Flame then run: What a girlie way to delude oneself into thinking you've had the last word. Men debate. Come on Ann, let's see some of that equality.
I told my dentist about the event, and he didn't mention anything about a 'gum-boil' (sounds like a snack food!).
He said that it was the goo in the abcessed tooth finding the 'path of least resistance' as the pressure built. We pondered on whether a hyperbaric chamber would do the trick.
If I got another such toothache, I would drive up to Crater Lake or Mount Hood, and hope it hapened the same way again, and not squirt up into my brain or out my nose or something.
BTW, if anybody is wondering, pus tastes just like you might imagine it would.
It's amusing to me that I am the one accused of being emotional and yet you all use words like "extreme feminist" "nut case" and woman without "cahones." Is this a joke? And I have studied the submissive passages - quite extensively. I have my MDiv and if you would like me to send you some papers I would be happy to. You know the Apostle Paul was very radical for his time (compared to greco-roman philosophers, etc.) but i do believe he still fell short in some ways. However, if I have to accept some of his metaphors as his reality so do you need to accept the labels he himself gave women i.e. apostle, deacon and prophetess (the blurb at the end of the letter was written by Paul and enumerated in several other letters.) This will most likely be my last response to you all, not because I am intimidated or offended, but because I have a job and a life and cannot spend all my time on the internet defending my beliefs or swapping recipes. con't
Res Ispa, your comment reminded me of something that happened at church recently. Two other men and I were talking about making jams and jellies when a woman who does catering came up and said, "This is so weird. I've never made jam in my whole life." She then jokingly accused us of being metrosexuals. The funny part is that one of the men was a former linebacker who founded his own business, a real type-A macho guy. The other had just returned from an African safari where he had bagged his limit-5 plains species with 5 shots- and was waxing rhapsodic about how roast antelope tasted.
Bane..that is pretty much what a gum boil is.
Papapete,
I love to cook, can, freeze, and dry all kinds of food. I garden, hunt and fish etc. Me and the wife enjoy all that stuff too, antelope, still got half of one in the freezer with some elk and moose. Never been to Africa but I'd like to.
BTW, I never disagreed with any of your examples of feminists, i simply stated that those are not the only feminists out there. Thanks for the laugh. Ann
Ann,
The rest of this crowed is cringing in boredom at what I’m going to say to you, because they’re sick to death (especially Nate) of me bringing it up.
So polish off your M Div that you’re so proud of, your going to need it.
You brought out your alleged knowledge of scripture, and supposed superior insight into Pauline doctrine so I figure this is fair game.
Disclaimer: I don’t care about where you go to church, your seminary other back ground, don’t even bring them up as it will prove a distraction and only get us off topic.
Before we can get into your personal take on scripture, which I will be happy to deal with, we need to talk about a bigger issue.
Hermeneutics baby. I can hang with the Greek exegetical work too so don’t even try it until you demonstrate the superior academic nature of your hermeneutical standard.
Your ball, state your position in the affirmative.
Ann, why did you bother saying anything? You didn't do diddly in defending yourself here.
First, I don't care whether you have a Masters in Divinity. Heck, Bishop Spong has ministerial credentials too, it doesn't mean that he is right.
And as to 'studying the passages', if we are wrong about Ephesians 5, you don't have to supply lengthy papers as to why. Tell us straight out.
How did Paul fall short?
'However, if I have to accept some of his metaphors'
Ephesians 5 is a metaphor? I really hope you are not of the 'demythologizing Christ' school...
'do you need to accept the labels he himself gave women i.e. apostle, deacon and prophetess'
Nate, where did you talk about women's role in the churches? You were just talking about families, weren't you?
I am not going to get drawn into an argument about the church - although I do agree that women can fill many functions - she can be a prophetess, for example - at the risk of some folks here getting all fired up (and getting myself drawn into that debate in the process)...the difference lies in whether women should have a leadership position over men. It doesn't keep them from doing *many many* things.
It doesn't take *that* long to write here, btw.
'i simply stated that those are not the only feminists out there'
Yes, I know. I have said it before. There are the Feminists and the Radical Feminists.
One is bad; the other is worst.
Sarah,
Until Ann states where she’s coming from logically on this there is no use in getting into exegetical work on any passage. If you do all she has to do latter is say that she doesn’t accept that interpretation or that she views a different passage as controlling the context etc…
No sense tilting windwills.
uhm,
Windmills
Well, the national dental center disagrees on my definition of 'gum boil'..
although this is how the Cleveland Clinic used the term
fistula: channel emanating pus from an infection site; a gum boil.
This is basically what I meant by the word 'gum boil'.
Well, I guess you are right, Res.
Is there any significance to discussing gum boils and feminists in the same blog channel?
Clearly Ann is operating from the "I'm right because I say so, so there" side. I personally have a great disdain for that side.
I also have a disdain for people who draw read none-existant sub-text into text, and then argue against the sub-text.
I have great disdain for people who surround themselves with those who agree with them, then claim to have a love for all opinions.
I have utter disdain for those who make idiotic statements then refuse to back them up.
I have utter disdain for people who mold language and redefine words until they are meaningless.
Ann... If you have a point to make, make it. Otherwise, consider yourself banned. Because if you attempt to continue these idiocic and meaningless rants about nothing, banned is exactly what you will be.
Nate,
That’s the way to make her feel welcome.
She’s just ignorant not malicious.
I realize it’s your blog and I respect that, but she’s not a site pest yet. Give her a chance to put forward her thoughts (I know so far so little). She may come around, and you still don’t have a confirmed feminazi in the harem yet.
Res.. Have you ever seen me disrespect a woman? I don't do it. She not banned. I'm in fact dying for her to make a point.
However, she should know that I'm not going to allow her to make specious rants. I've just decided to be a prick today.
Besides.. when a person signs off declaring that they are not intimidated... it's a sure indicator that they are running home to mama.
"I'm not scared... I just really ummm... need to... umm... getawayfromrightnowbeforeyouguysfoundouthowscaredI
am!!!!"
Ok
Your blog, your prick....
Boy, you think I could come up with a good one liner for this opportunity, but no.
She already said she was leaving, so let her leave. My guess is she will come back her, read over everything and declare herself morally superior. So what. Should she know better, yes, does she no, is she likely to change, hard to say. It's typical leftist behavior, I don't understand what everyone is getting so worked up about.
Res, the part I enjoyed was being called a metrosexual. It would be rather difficult to find less metrosexual men anywhere.
Not worked up SB. Just disappointed that another M Div has backed away from any meaningful higher textual study.
Theological Debate score card:
Res (high school drop out) Undefeated
M Div’s: scurrying away from the light, like the roaches in Nates other post.
Don't get to cocky res... you and I haven't even begun yet. Somehow you are going to have to show how God uses biology to preclude a calling to minister. Good luck there.
Minister ≠ Pastor
“L” and Ann both make excellent examples of why women shouldn’t be allowed any sort of leadership roll in the Church.
ouch, this post has gotta hoit!
Res writes:
"I also called you a Red Neck Rhodes Scholar, accused Bane of being a virginal pretty boy, all but called KLRman a fag, and he agreed, and you're invited to the wedding as soon as your sister in law knocks of my wife, we're honeymooning in Columbia, and boy is Red pissed."
...and you told the Aussie guy to "sod off" with his own cultural terminology.
You'd be cool to take on a road trip Res.
Red Neck Rhodes Scholar, now that had me laughing.
More pus talk.
Pus pus pus.
Gum boil.
I'm surprised that I haven't banned anyone from my humble blog yet. I treasure my trolls.
A good troll is like having a wet scalp hanging from your lodge pole...and altering someone's posts is something the antichrist would do...ban away, but alteration is a crime against nature.
...oh, and Ann just needs a good foot rub or something...and flowers.
And maybe a nice nuzzle into those soft hairs just at the base of her hairline, above the spine, and some warm, moist kisses from her ear on down the side of her neck...
I'm just sayin is all...
That's funny Bane! I'm concerned I'm going to lose my pet troll for tweaking him too hard... 
They are like a Pet Rock, or some other unique, dense object...unless they insult your core, trim them like a treasured Bonsai.
Trim them, and display them as a rare treasure.
Desert Cat, Bane, ever had the kind of troll that bombards your blog with about 20 comments? With useless quotes? Trolls that try to ban your own IP from the blogging domain?
Welcome to my blogging trolls.
I guess I just am not part of the popular crowd...
I have warned my readers via deguello, and I take no prisoners.
I have yet to slaughter a troll...if I feel so compelled, I might use The Force to seek such a one out, and molest his inner child.
"I have yet to slaughter a troll"
Going on your posts Bane, I'd fear your wrath more than that Graner dude in the Abu Ghraib pictures.
I've slaughtered lots of trolls, just not any at my own site
lol@Bane
"why wasn't there a female Shakespeare" Same reason there's no female Grand Masters in Chess. Check the SAT's, any guesses how many boys scored perfect 800's in math vs girls? In 1999; 4815 boys, 1611 girls. Oh, and more girls took the test.
Modern feminism is not about equal opportunity, it's about equal outcomes. Soooo, when you have about 3X as many boys in fields such as engineering and physics, what do you do?
Useless URL's yes, but not sabotage efforts. It's mostly fun--when I know I am annoying them more than they are annoying me, I eagerly look forward to what snarky, snide respose they are going to come up with to my latest screed.
But like a cornered mousie, they squeek if you bat them too hard...
"This will most likely be my last response to you all, not because I am intimidated or offended, but because I have a job and a life and cannot spend all my time on the internet defending my beliefs or swapping recipes."
Using SB's handydandy feminist translation guide:
"Since I have no valid argument, I will wave around my magic piece of paper declaring how smart I am, and instead of adressing any specific issue raised here or making any valid point, I'll just stick my fingers in my ears and (as Nate pointed out) sing the 'I'm right cause you're wrong' song as I skip away from the discussion. So there: PBBBBT!"
Yeah, thanks Darlin. You make my point even better than I did. Oh, and Ann? Thanks for the laughs.
BTW: Your ignorance about the nature of the movement you claim to embrace does not excuse you from blindly advancing their anti-female, anti-child, anti-family, anti-God agenda.
Jamie,
All in fun mate.
Earlier, someone asked about the similarity between gum boils and feminists. The answer is simple: They both need a good lancing!
...and when you do, it smells about the same...
Sorry...had to be said.
Where have we all been? Those voices who echo agreement that feminism is right? Personally, I have been working, spending time with my husband, and counseling some of my graduating Seniors... who are finding out that decisions (and how you treat people or allow yourself to be treated) change life forever. Basically, instead of typing about what I think, I have been busy living it. However, out of curiousity I wanted to know what had been said.
...cont... So, this will be my final statement. I am not running away. I am going on vacation, after working in the challenging world of public high school. I do not need a man to dispel my fear. I have my God for that. Whose compassion and judgement could be considered genderless. My point is this, men and women need each other. Fact. However, women and men are sufficient to make stands and assertions on their own. They are capable of mowing the lawn by themselves. They are capable for sharing cooking. Ann and LYnnette have made strong assertions given Biblical backups. Can you consider that they have better things to do than talk something to death... resurect it... and SLAY it again? Especially when people don't seem to listen?
...cont. don't lump everyone into a lable that perscribes everyone is the same. Instead, let's have the strength of Christ to do his work. Period. That requires both logic and yes emotion.... but most of all it requires grace and faith. Where are these things in this discussion. Lynnette and Ann ARE already gifted church leaders. You should hear Ann preach sometime.
I hope that you enjoy the rest of this discussion. I doubt I will venture into this place again. This was my first blog experience, and will likely be my last. I challenge (and am challenged) with the ideas of my fellow teachers, friends, students, and church members. That is suffient for me.
Buh-bye!
'Basically, instead of typing about what I think, I have been busy living it.'
Translation: You have no life.
'I do not need a man to dispel my fear. I have my God for that.'
Well, it is said that He is the father of the fatherless - no one said that a man should usurp God's role in our lives.
'Whose compassion and judgement could be considered genderless.'
This is an odd statement. How can acts be considered a 'gender'? Or are you saying that God doesn't have a gender?
'Ann and LYnnette have made strong assertions given Biblical backups.'
Which have been covered time and time again - strong biblical backups? More like vague assertions and mixing and matching verses that apply to completely different situations - like women in the church.
'Especially when people don't seem to listen?'
Well, this is odd - since what I have seen so far on the other end is name-calling and assumptions of the other persons involved.
'My point is this, men and women need each other. Fact.'
No one said that they didn't.
'However, women and men are sufficient to make stands and assertions on their own.'
No one said they can't. If I really believed they couldn't, I wouldn't be here.
'They are capable of mowing the lawn by themselves.'
You are alluding to the 'boy jobs' thing. You seem to be taking this way too personally. If you don't agree with it, then speak civilly about it. Don't make it out as if it were part of the patriarchy conspiracy...but as is usual, no one said that you shouldn't live your own life as you please.
'Lynnette and Ann ARE already gifted church leaders. You should hear Ann preach sometime.'
Again, the topic is not about women's role in the churches. Nate was not writing about that, that I noticed anyways.
'Can you consider that they have better things to do than talk something to death'
It doesn't take that long to write here. It seems that if Ann and the rest are going to be so quick to mount on the attack, they should be willing to bear through with the consequences.
'This was my first blog experience, and will likely be my last.'
If you don't like Nate's..then there are tons of other blogs out there - many of your similar mindset.
Sorry, folks, I know she said she wouldn't be back again. I had to let that out, though.
It is my perception that you, Annette, and Lynn have misconstrued Nate. Nate wrote about what he believes is a 'man's role' in the household, this bothered you, and then you made a whole slew of insinuations and assumptions...
Now, I don't always agree with Nate..with machines for example, I don't know whether I'm 'confounded' by it. I just couldn't be bothered with them. I told Nate that I wouldn't be comfortable in the household if I didn't contribute something financially. This discomfort is probably attributed more to the way I was raised, though. Notice though that I didn't take it personally -
RJK contributed here and made some comments that perhaps you may appreciate more (eg. she uses machines). Yet, notice that she didn't get all freaked out and hysterical about it - as it seems the feminist types do.
And, as well, fem types - notice that in the posts he was not referring to
a) single women
or
b) the role of women in the church
So, don't behave as if he is!
*gets off my soap box*
If I got anything wrong, anybody, I'm free for correction.
Sarah, well said.
If I call myself a feminist and get irate, will Bane nibble the nape of my neck? What's a Christian girl to do?
Course, that pus thing is a total turn on.
Oh where you from....you sexy thang?
Sarah,
Didn't sound like a soap box to me. It may even be better that a women said it.
Well done.
If she wanted a discussion of substance she could have had one here. Liberals don't want substance they want sound bites and ear candy. Disent is too hard for them.
Alex,
Not to discourage you but Joy has established herself as the bog flirt.
If you want to join her go ahead, but please use some thing other than the gross out fetish.
Hey! I was just gettin turned on...
I DO give good nape.
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