We should tell her about Thomas J. DiLorenzo too. Go to LewRockwell.com and you will find his articles. He's not exactly a fan of Abraham Lincoln.
DiLorenzo will set you straight right quick about what the War of Southern Secession was all about.
ahem...
The War for Southern Independence.
that's good too
Here's a good question for Government School graduates; Why didn't Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland and Missouri (all slave states) throw in with the CSA?
AP,
I think you're misreading the statement she made. It's very clear that Lincoln used slavery as his red herring, and that the war had nothing to do with it. What's in question is more or less the political maneuvering the South might have used to stave him off.
Bill,
Kentucky DID throw in with the CSA. That's how we got the Orphan Brigade.
I'll leave the others for you boys.
Anonymous,
I offered no judgement on the substance of her email. I offered no direct answers to her questions. I did offer a source of further information pertinent to the discussion. So saying I misread her is a little delusional.
The only judgement I made was in my personal assessment of DiLorenzo's point of view.
AP
Hence, the *I think* in my statement. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Have read Tom D, agree with him. More people should have read about Spooner. One issue the public school system has been fabricating truth about for a long, long time.
Well... when you consider that the "Public School System" in it's current form, was created along with the Department of Education in around 1885 by order of The Tyrant King... it certainly puts their misinformation in perspective doesn't it?
The fact is the DoE was created to make sure that all children recieved the proper Yankee version of events.
For anyone interested, read "A Defense of Virginia and The South" by R.L. Dabney. (although I'm guessing many of you already have) A quote;
"When the late Confederate Government adopted a constitution, although it was composed exclusively of slaveholding States, it voluntarily did what the United States has never done: it placed an absolute prohibition of the foreign slave trade in its organic law." (p.60)
Bill or anyone, which state was the first to secede from the union. Hint it wasn't on the heels of the civil war.
Wow... that's a toughy because I don't know when you're talking about.
You mean post-adoption of the Constitution? OR are we counting pre-constitution America as well?
The Northeastern states tried several times to seceed but were talked out of it time and again.
Every state that joined the "Perpetual" Union formed by the Articles of Confederation also seceeded.
S Carolina? Broke free right after the election, IIRC, then a few states followed them. After Lincoln's treachery at Ft. Sumter, other states followed. So, it took not quite a year for the CSA to form.
Bill,
Nah... The first states to secede did so 100 years before then.
It was right after the adoption of the constitution, and it was a territory you love the most Nate.
Massachusetts was the first to try to secede, IIRC.
Wasn't the Dept of Education started during the Carter administration?
And, didn't Lincoln call in federal troops to prevent the Maryland legislature from voting to secede and join the CSA?
Hmm...what if ALL the states decided to secede and form a NEW union? Of course, what would the point be, but still.
Yes and I'm talking about the union not the CSA
Another hint, when it suceded it was know as the franklin republic.
Oh, well, Tennessee.
almost astro.
Answer Tennessee was part on North Carolina and seceded from the union, over guess what Taxes and revenue issues, became the Franklin republic, back to North caroilina, then to Tennessee. It is a great story about the Tennessee spirit of independence.
Astro,
All the states did secede from the Articles of Confederation. They then joined the Union formed by the Constitution.
As for the Franklin Republic, it was located along what is now the Border of East Tenness and North Carolina. It's exact borders are disputed.
Nate, good post. This side of the War of Northern Aggression is told rarely. Usually, the story is "North good; South bad. North benign and enlightened; South Nazis a-horseback."
Most people don't even know that many free black folks owned slaves. Hm, wonder how that jibes with current propaganda?
Nate, oh yeah. Duh. But they did it on purpose. What I was thinking about was what if all the states, after the election of Lincoln, had seceded and made a new union? Of course, those states where Lincoln won the vote would not have done this, but still.
Yep, the Dept of Education was started in 1980.
www.ed.gov
www.ed.gov
re-started. not started.
Hrm...in y'all's research, did you find out anything about the laws forbidding slaves to learn how to read and write? Were those laws isolated to certain areas? Or just in effect during certain years?
i find it interesting that northern states wrote laws prohibiting freed slaves to move into their states...weird considering they were "fighting for their freedom"...just as long as they don't go to their neck of the woods
Elena,
Yankee Myth. Didn't happen.
From;
fer/public_html/busrefpapers/edu.htm">History of the Department of Education
"The history of the Department of Education goes back to 1867, when President Andrew Jackson signed legislation that created the first Department of Education. There was great fear of the Department and public outcry, so the name was changed from the original "Department of Enslavement via Boiling Frog Method" to the more familiar, but just as sinister, "Department of Subjugation". Eventually, in 1980 at the request of Jimma Carta the name was changed to The Department of Education, with the bit about subjugation in small print at the bottom of the page.
DANG IT. I just can't type today.
History of the Department of Education
People...
Lincoln created the original department of Education by executive order to oversee education during the "reconstruction". It was formed and disbanded once the rules were in place and the texts were decided upon.
It was restarted by Jackson, and restarted again by Carter.
It would be interesting to have some liberal history proffesor come here and debate us uneducated "Non historians" and kick his ass. Wouldn't that be fun.
hrmm.. Already did that... College was fun for me.
Minor correction the President in 1867 was Andrew Johnson, not Andrew Jackson. I don't think that 'Ol Hickory would have ever created a Department of Education.
I know how you feel, Nate:
I can't stand those damned baseball players either!
Isn't naming the Jew York baseball team the Yankees like naming the Atlanta team the Rednecks, or the Los Angeles team the Crackheads?
But back to the Second American Revolutionary War for a moment: Who really knows what went on at this point? I don't know any Confederate or Union veterans who can tell us, and I wasn't there either. Considerable evidence indicates the war was engineered in the Vatican decades before anyone in America ever thought about secession. I think that - black or white - if you are not free to leave if you want to, you're not free!
I can't fathom that the writers of the AoC and the Constitution, giving us so many freedoms and doing so much to limit government, would include clauses to prohibit states from doing the very thing that they had done.
What about this: "That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
Granted until the attack on Sumter there weren't many grievances that I would have suceeded for, but in proper style I think I could have said, "Screw you, we don't want you anyways." It wasn't armed insurrection or open rebellion against the standing power, but an attempt to form a new and seperate power. What about that was worthy of war against half of your own country?
Here's a good question for Government School graduates; Why didn't Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland and Missouri (all slave states) throw in with the CSA?
Well, in Missouri's case, its because the state was well garrisoned with Union troops and had been for 10 years or so due to the Missouri-Kansas border war. At the time the "border war" involved more than collegiate athletics. You can still find reminders of that time around here (I live in Kansas City) like the Free State Pub in Lawrence, KS. Lawrence was a center of the Free Kansas movement, which is why Quantrell targeted it. One thing I have noticed is that Missourians often give Quantrell a military rank when referring to him, Kansans never do.
Hmmm. I didn't know that the Dept. of Education had a history befor Carter. Shows how much I care about that thing.
And it's Andrew Johnson, not Jackson.
I know my presidents named Andrew.
"Every single slave boat sailed out of New York Harbor."
Nate, haven't read your full post yet and haven't read the comments but this postulate begs to be proven w/ a source or two.
Larry,
Quatrell burned down Lawrence for good ol' fashioned revenge.
MR
The easiest place to find this info is in a widely accessible book named "The South Was Right". Before you write it off, do understand that it's written by the Kennedy brothers. One of which is the Chair of the Department of History at the University of Alabama, and both of which have PHD's.
There is an entire chapter devoted to this, and it's very very well documented.
You can dig it up elsewhere though as well.
Nate, wasn't there/isn't there a widow of a vetern from the war for southern independence that you met? she knew what it was like from her husband.
Yup. We met her down in Montgomery. She actually died last year. She damned sure knew what it was like.
Commenting by HaloScan
