So they're banning alcohol sales in Boston during the series (or just around the stadium) why? Were the officers imbibing?
All I heard on the radio this morning was that "rioting fans" had left one person dead and several injured. There was NO mention of the police killing that one person.
If I was that girl's dad...
I like how the Police Commissioner called the crowd "punks." Yeah, 'cause that girl, I'm sure, was a punk. That's nice. It's Boston, for Pete's sake. Of course they're going to spill into the streets and celebrate. Does the Commissioner not actually live there or something? You plan for it and move on.
There's a story here in Chicago about how the police tasered some lady in a nursing home. The lady had gone to visit her friend, but her friend wasn't there. She was afraid something had happened to him, but no one would tell her anything. Turns out he was just out on a walk. But when she started getting really upset they tasered her. She's like 80 or something.
I seem to remember a Chicago school teacher getting gunned down by cops too... after she called 9-11 to report she was being attacked.
Nice.
I must not have been here for that one. But it does sound vaguely familiar.
Now hold on here. We have no idea what happened. I've been around too many near-riots and such to go pointing blame. First, I doubt the cop could hit her in the eye again if you gave her a hundred more shots, this sounds like a lightning strike sort of accident. It'd be different if she died of head trauma after getting beat, but this really sounds like an accident.
Were they justified in gassing the crowd? From descriptions of what happened, hell yeah! They probably should have used live ammo. There are photos of the "fans" throwing flaming bombs at the cops, and of what could best be described as scrums.
Sounds like a classic case of "it's only funny till somebody gets hurt" ...(then it's f-ing hilarious).
Since when do you point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy?
If your shooting a gun, only one outcome is expected. This cop has no excuse.
Amen Res.
Non-Lethal weapons are designed to be used in a very specific way.
My point is Bill, it was either on purpose or on accident.
So it was either Murder, or Man-Slaughter.
And by the by Bill... sounds like they are well on their way on Plan A.
For some reason, I'm reminded of the description of "non-lethal" weapons on the John Titor website...
Bill,
I don't disagree that times exist when cops should use weapons. You're likely right that its a 1 in a million chance that this girl got hit in the eye and died. I agree that we don't have all the facts.
She still died. So far the cops haven't claimed that she as an individual was a direct threat, she was in a crowd and the victim of random fire.
If I pull the trigger I expect the gun to go bang and a bullet to hit its mark, period thats whats is susposed to do.
Random fire isn't acceptable.
What will make "non-lethal" weapons leathal is the belief that they are "non-lethal". Kind of like the unloaded gun.
Res,
Random fire into a crowd has proven time and again to be the safest thing to do for all concerned. Freak accidents do occur when some gets killed or maimed, but it's better than having 30 people killed and maimed.
If you don't want to get shot, don't stand near people throwing burning rolls of toilet paper towards police.
I don't.
Burning rolls of toilet paper!
HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD!!! Those poor cops! How did they ever survive!
Somehow I'm just having a hard time believing that the company that manufactures such devices provides written instructions that say, "Fire randomly into crowds."
Jeez... Seriously Bill... Did David Koresh shoot first too?
wasn't this cop trained at all on how to use this weapon and it's potential? and random fire is stupid...but typical liberal...grr.
That's an interesting jump from random fire into a crowd to typical liberal.
If you just light a roll of toilet paper and throw it, it'll most likely go out, it doesn't really burn very well, it mostly smolders and kinda-sorta burns
The normal way to throw burning toilet paper rolls is to soak the roll in gas (or some other acclerant), put the roll on a stick (with the stick going through the hole in the roll, light it, and whip the stick so the lit roll flys off. Trust me, you don't want to get hit by one of these.
wasn't this cop trained at all on how to use this weapon and it's potential?
I'm sure *she* was. I think you're missing the point here, the idea of modern riot police is to disperse crowds without physical contact between the police and the rioters. Tear gas cannisters get really hot and have started several pretty bad fires, plus it's hard on peaceful bystanders and shop owners, fire hoses work pretty well, but are a kind of last resort thing, and can also result in death and maiming.
The beanbags have been used hundreds of times and are the best thing they've come up with yet.
Again Bill, are you telling me that this idiot, he or she, was actually trained to "randomly" fire?
If so, then everyone involved should be drowned in their own bile.
Here's another account of what happened;
Fans went out of control, burning a car, hurling bottles and clashing with riot cops, resulting in 16 injuries and eight arrests.
One cop's nose was broken by a flying bottle and officials are considering banning alcohol sales during the World Series games.
The chaos reached its fiery climax on Boylston Street, a block from Fenway, when a few hundred drunken hooligans attacked a parked Nissan Xterra that bore New York plates.
The crowd smashed its windows and set it on fire.
Like I said... Plan A. Exajurate the events... defame the victim... sweep it all under the rug.
I hope the bitch enjoys her paid vacation.
are you telling me that this idiot, he or she, was actually trained to "randomly" fire?
Not exactly randomly, but on orders to shoot, they fire into the crowd around waist or chest level. The beanbags sting a little worse than a paint-ball, and contain pepper spray. They're much more directed than tear gas, but as you're shooting an air powered ball from 30-50 feet away, they're not all that accurate. You'd be doing well to be able to hit a standard silhouette with one.
seriously Bill... A cop got a broken nose? This is the justification?
This was a plain and simple over reaction, by a police force that was jumpy as hell because of previous events after the super-bowl.
You know Bill, that just doesn't add up. From 50 feet away, the damage wouldn't have been that severe and you know it.
How close was this cop to the girl who was shot? It's pretty easy to determine based on the injuries and the tons of other evidence available.
You know what???
We'll never find out. That girl could've been standing right in front of the cop, and we'll never know. They'll cover it up, just like they cover up everything else.
sorry, i'm just a little pissed...
"...was a talented young student who dreamed of being an "Entertainment Tonight"-type reporter"
I recant. The cops shot a east coast yankee liberal wana be TV reporter.
Good for them.
I'd be interested in knowing more about the exact circumstances but we will never have more than one side to this story. Bill if your right (and you may be) if the girl was part of the riot than she bears part of the responsibility of her actions.
The big crime here was police interfering with NY and MA citizens trying to kill each other. They should have never interffered.
you have a point Res, we must remember to look at the big picture
Well.. look.. don't think I'm not conflicted about this. Mourning yankee death is not something I'm accustomed to doing.
Modern Cops have a shoot first, F**K anyone who complains, attitude.
it rubs me raw... even if yankee's are the victims.
What is this 'random fire' stuff? Is there target aquisition or is it just pick a spot at the height you stated and fire? If they're indiscriminately shooting beanbags into a crowd at some generic height how can they be sure that someone short isn't in their field of fire? This story reeks of BS.
...even if yankee's are the victims.
Oh my I think hell just froze over... or at least got a few degrees cooler.
"...even if yankee's are the victims."
Nathan, you brought a tear to my eye.
I have to admit I'm shocked. I expected her dad to be out there thanking the cops for protecting the fair city.
Nate: "it rubs me raw... even if yankee's are the victims."
***sniff***
Why, Nate...I'm touched.
The other "big picture" item missing here is the trend toward sports fans going on rampages to celebrate victories, like they were soccer hooligans.
I mean, what is this, Europe or something?
WB, good point. I think trashing a street or town over a sports victory is nuts.
Drunk New Englanders that keep electing Kennedies to office? Might as well be Europeans.
oh, don't go getting me started on soccer fans...that's how i explain everything i dislike about this culture here.
Joy, I can't believe anyone would even play soccer where you are since the penalty for losing big matches (World Cup, Copa America, etc) is not uncommonly death.
Like the song goes, Nate..."Look for, the union label..."
It would take an act of Congress and a bundle of TNT to blast through the old-boy-network union bureaucracy infesting such a place and actually get someone incompetent fired.
Look for the socialists to trot out the old "the gun just went off" argument.
I was trolling for gun ownership and crime statistics a couple months ago and came across an interesting one. There was a study that says that law enforcement personnel make incorrect shoot-don't shoot decisions about 11% of the time; civilians make incorrect decisions approximately 4% of the time.
of course citizens aren't put in the position to decide with possession of a gun as often to bring that figure up higher. when a citizen is using a gun, it's usually to hunt or practice shooting and stuff. there are a few that carry for self-protection, but not nearly as often as it happens with police.
Joy, the study was based on post-shooting investigations, actual cases, not simulations or theoretical situations. One could argue that police have more restrictive rule of engagement, but one could also argue that a lot more bad decisions by police get covered up also.
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