I love a good hoax. I love the imagination that goes into them and am impressed by the time and energy put into them.
Then SB, you'll love this. They put enough thought into this, that I am honestly tempted.
...and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska
___________________________
Poor Omaha!
.
Dude I read all of that John Titor stuff several months ago. That is one complex, detailed hoax...if it is a hoax.
Who knows? The thing is, even by his own story, our "worldline" is not the same as his. He did say that we were close enough to his "worldline" that he figured we were heading down the same path.
It sure is a good story, though.
According to his story, our worldline was already differing from his, because in his, Y2K actually happened.
He dropped hints that he thought his granddad might have had something to do with it...
One thing that strikes me as odd is that someone from (alleged) 40 years in the future would use the expression "Waco type event." Waco happened in 1993 and really didn't affect policy all that much, I'd think it would have faded to a historical footnote by 2036. Seems like 9/11 would have been a more appropriate barometer and would have more staying power over time.
Well, but 9/11 had not happened yet, so he would not have used that example. All throughout the story, he refrained from giving specific details about the future, only speaking in generalities. Besides, given the divergence in worldlines, perhaps his 9/11 was on 9/10 or 9/12?
I do think it's funny that there's a line in there about "do you think it's true that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to justify the next war?"
Remember, he wrote this stuff from 11/00 to 03/01.
Waco my a well have been seen as a huge event in his folks.
I mean.. We look back at the boston tea party like it was a huge deal... but to someone only a couple years removed, they might not see it that way.
I don't know Nate, they dumped a million bucks (todays dollars) worth of tea in the drink, and it seriously got peoples attention.
The Tea Party happened in December of 1773, the Brits immediately responded with the Intolerable Acts (dissolved the Government of Mass, housed troops in peoples homes, closed Boston Harbor, etc), and the first Continental Congress met soon after that (September 1774), which pretty much kicked off the Revolutionary War. The shooting started in April, 1775, in Boston.
There could have been no doubt among people living at that time that the Boston Tea Party started the Revolutionary War, even more so than the Boston Massacre, which happened way back in 1770.
You know what I mean Bill, The tea party just popped into my head. There are plenty of real examples of Historically significant events, that are not seen as that earth shattering until years later.
The End of an Urban Legend
quote: Originally posted by ScienceGuyQ
Anyways, anyone have anything? I can't come up with anything obviously wrong with his info, no matter how much a time traveling Corrvette makes me want to laugh.
Here ya go, ScienceGuyQ. Mathematics puches holes throughout this Poser's claims of fact.
"If the Titor Saga is true there are a couple (dozen or more) physics issues that require one to suspend reality.
Here's an example.
We know from Titor's posts that the total mass of his gadget (the box, components and two micro black holes) is approximately 225 kg (500 lbs.).
If we allow 25 kg for the box and components we are left with two black holes with a mass of 100 kg each.
We can directly calculate the radius of the event horizon for each black hole.
cont....
R_s = (2 * G*M)/c^2
For a 100 kg mass the Schwarzschild Radius is approximately:
1.5*10^-25 meters. The diamter is 3*10^-25 meters..
Titor stated that he spun up the angular velocity and electric charge of his black holes by injecting electrons.
The "diameter" of an electron (based on the diffusion of the charge) is approximately:
2.8*10^-15 meters.(Linus Pauling's estimate)
He's suggesting that he spins up the black hole by injecting an object (an electron) that has a diameter 9.3 billion times greater than the diameter of the black hole itself.
He next suggests that enough mass, angular momentum and charge are absorbed by the black holes so that the event horizon expands to a size sufficient to engulf the 1967 Corvette or Chevy Suburban. Use the shorter vehicle - ~4.5 meters for the Corvette (175").
cont...
He proposes to expand the event horizon 1.5*10^25 times (15 septillion times).
Another big number. Let's go back to the Earth comparison. How big is that number? A Light Year is 10^15 meters.
If his black hole was Earth sized and he needed to expand it to engulf an object 1.5*10^25 times larger than it's original size the radius the new event horizon would be...10 billion Light Years. That happens to be the lower estimate for the radius of the entire Universe.
This set of examples is just a taste of his bad physics."
I thought that his time machine didn't have the entire vehicle inside the event horizon, but rather that injecting the electrons into the black holes caused the space-time around the vehicle to warp, allowing him to travel through time. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read the story.
Of course, if the diameter of a 100 kg black hole is 10 orders of magnitude smaller than an electron, then it makes you wonder how that tiny-ass black hole can eat the electrons.
The last part is a straw man.
The bit about injecting the electrons is correct Astro.
I don't know all the physics, I just know that bigger brains than mine (certified and accredited in physics) have looked at this stuff, and shook their heads. Both of them told me it was impossible to disprove right now.
Gregg,
The briliant part about the titor hoax is how it positions its detractors into trying to prove a negative.
My favorite part of this whole thing is the fact that the time machine was built by GE.
i mean.. who else?
Yeah, that kills me too, the "Army Model GE / C204" time machine.
Where's the flux capacitor? How does it generate the 1.21 gigawatts of power it needs? Do they still have cotton underwear in the future?
Who do the Olsen Twins marry? This is important stuff, damn it!
Who cares about the Olsen twins?!
Nate's holding out on us, there's no pic of Dystopia up yet....
You know, about the Olsen twins...
Well, not about them really but have y'all seen that two-headed girl?
Now, it's not correct, and a little mean-spirited, to call them a two-headed girl but that's what they are, Siamese twins where the only distinct part are their heads. You have to feel sorry for these girls, they didn't ask to be born this way.
I just wonder if they'll ever have any boy want to date them or anything. I read that the original Siamese twins were married to two different women, but those guys were just joined at the gut, but otherwise whole.
hrm.... if you marry one.. can you get head from both?
I read all of the Titor stuff and it makes sense. People treat scientists like they are gods, when the sum total of their knowledge is far exceeded by what they don't know.
she wasn't nekkid Bill.
she wasn't nekkid Bill.
I thought the rule was if she was nekkid, then you mailed it around to the guys on the blog, and if she had her clothes on, then it got posted in the Harem section.
Well, not at the same time, unless they find that one young man out there with two ...
Never mind.
NateIf you marry one you can get nagged from two.
I guess they could have two boyfriends, if the one that's not interested in the other's boyfriend just goes to sleep or turns her head away or something.
No, I am not nekkid. Bill and Nate, you are both rascals. 
I've heard about the John Titor hoax. Maybe he wasn't supposed to prevent Y2K, maybe that would have been the event that made us get our act together and Sept.11th would never had happened because our guard would have been up. It's all just speculation.
However, with a deeply polarized society it is possible for civil unrest to break out. I am sure the riot inciting cow, aka lovely Mrs. John Edwards, would cheer the rioters on.
Oh, if you scramble the letters in John Titor's name you get "Thor Joint". Can anybody else find a hidden meaning in his name. 
Hrm.. it's not rioting that's the problem Dys.
It's a civil war between the urban liberals and the rural conservatives.
It was my impression that the rioting was a precursor to the outright fighting in our future civil war. I found the idea interesting in light of the recent tongue in cheek comments made by Mrs. Edwards and Al Gore telling their supporters not to riot if their side lost the election.
Will you be sending Russia a thank you card in advance for weeding the urban liberals out of our garden Nate?
Whoa whoa whoa.
The CERN people are saying that THEY created the internet. Does that mean that Gore lied? No!!
It's a civil war between the urban liberals and the rural conservatives
As the lovely Ms Coulter said; "They want a fight? Let's fight! We got all the men and all the guns!"
The CERN people are saying that THEY created the internet.
The lyin' ho's!
ARPA created the Internet, or funded it anyway. CERN invented hypertext. Which is rather like crowing about inventing radial tires when someone else invented the car.
Their page says "...where the web was born!"
So, if they invented HTTP, then they did invent "the web" because "the web" is a subset of the Internet, which of course was created by ARPA.
OK...so the guy uses math to disprove John Titor. I use logic to disprove his math...When you request the weight of a car from a dealership, they do not include the weight of the Gas that you will theoretically put into it (no way to know what octane you will use)...nor do they reduce the weight of the vehicle for the fractional amounts of lift created by the combution inside the engine...If Titor's machine created 2 small, controlled black holes, so be it...why would he give the weight with the "engine running"... thus 500 lbs sounds fine to me, so what if a few thousand pounds are added on when you start it up.
it's not just gas. They often give a dry weight. No fluids at all.. no battery... no tires...
So what do you all think of the next generation of the Internet called the National LambdaRail (NLR)? What could that evolve into?
Oh, and of course CERN would boast they created the Internet. The French do love to boast.
So, do the French get nuked in the future?
Yep, if the John Titor story is true GE was contracting with CERN. I guess in the future America and France kiss and make up right before they get nuked.
Monsieur Tritor may be more accurate, lol. Maybe the French want to go back in time and un-nuke themselves while making a tidy profit picking up old code for their future machines that need a major overhaul.
Nate's going to thump me over the head with a bottle of Southern Comfort if I don't watch myself.
Dystopia: "What could that evolve into"
That will mean faster downloads of porn, pirated music and video, and the ultimate Utopia for online gamers.
Seriously, though, it is interesting research. Ideally it will evolve into actual real-time services like video conferencing and monitoring (now there's a two-edged sword for you). This would actually be a boon for homeschoolers, providing affordable real-time online video capabilities.
Given the massive data throughput, we could even see realistic developments in 3-D/holographic research.
Thanks for the heads-up, Dystopia.
You're welcome WaterBoy but NLR is something I kind of stumbled onto while doing some research on new technologies involving supercomputers to predict tornados and other weather phenomena.
I also blundered onto a pic of my ex-boyfriend from high school at the same time, lol. Apparently he is involved in that field.
Hubby is a computer nerd too.
I've got a thing for nerds.
Urban liberals and rural conservatives don't care enough to get violent with each other right now. These groups will have to move farther left and right before they get violent. Right now the only violent groups are the greens, anarchists and the militia types. God help us if they ever get together with the likes of Osama.
Anon
Careful. You're talking to the Militia Types.
Careful. You're talking to the Militia Types.
[nods vigorously, squints suspiciously at Anon, folds arms across chest]
Nate, I got some bad news last night. I guess I've been in a fog since I hadn't already heard, but Ron Zook finally got fired. And I really liked him as FL's head coach. Plus, he looks like an older version of that B actor, Gary Cole, which is just good fun. But I must say, much as I hate FL fans, at least they get rid of someone who sucks, unlike us ala Randy Sanders.
Yeah, RJK, I was hoping to see him drive them into the ground for at least one more year.
Unfortuately.. while the man never coached... he sure as hell recruited... They've got better players now than they had when Spurrier left.
Well if I had a time machine Gen. Lee would get lots of automatic weapons and other great hardware. And I would warn Stonewall Jackson's about that ambush too!
Wouldn't need to do all that skillet. Just take a modern history textbook with you. Once he reads it, he'll surround DC, and shell it to dust.
Yeah, we can sure dream, can't we?
Kinda reminds me of that movie "Final Countdown" when the nuclear aircraft carrier went thru some time warp and ended up in the Pacific, 1941. They had to decide if they would intercept the Japs headed for Pearl with their fighters. What a hoot, an F-14 vs. a Japanese Zero!
Can you imagine the look on Lincoln's face if he saw a REAL Confederate Air Force?
I need to lay off the peyote--
Hah hah. I bet this thread would give Bane an aneurysm.
Ya'll should check out http://www.abovetopsecret.com/ and specifically http://www.abovetopsecret.com/
pa...ts_project.html
There are a "couple" threads that discuss, at great length, the facts and fictions of John Titor and his story. Pretty interesting stuff, whether you believe it or not.
It's a civil war between the urban liberals and the rural conservatives.
Right and all liberals live in the city and all conservatives live in the country.
No MR.. not right now.. but if you look at the blue and red county by county map, and compare it with population maps, you certainly see that it's not all... but definately most.
The more cities clamp down for "security purposes" the more conservatives will move out, and the more accurate the statement will be.
it's close now. it'll be closer 10 years from now.
But then the time will have been past for John Titor's war... in 10 years.
John says, "There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005."
If what you say does happen, and I do not doubt that there will continue to be an exodus from the urban areas by ppl (con and lib) who are fed up with the life that can be lived there... then the Russians will kill mostly the people that are left (in the cities). And from my point of view those will be the ppl who are too poor to "move out", doesn't matter if they are conservative or liberal.
The exchnage of nukes with Russia is in 2015, not the Civil War. The exchange of nukes is what effectively stops the Civil War.
MR
Our timeline has already diverged from his. The Y2K bug actually happened in his timeline. He acknowledged that things were going differently already, but he still saw enough to make him thing the war was coming.
I never said that war (civil and world) was not coming... whether prophesied by "John Titor" the time-traveller or by some average joe that can see the writing on the wall.
I was arguing that rural vs. urban = conservative vs. liberals, which is what you basically said.
I believe John Titor on the basis that I think "something" is going to happen. Whether it is along the lines of
Unintended Consequences or
Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse or
Enemies Foreign and Domestic... who knows.
God.
Sorry that should have read...
I was arguing that rural vs. urban does NOT = conservative vs. liberals, which is what you basically said.
And I don't really care if I get whooshed up in the Rapture or if I have to sit it out through what JT is talking about, either way I already do the stuff that JT suggests, just like hundreds of survivalists before him have suggested. The only thing that makes him different, in my eyes, is the background of the time travel story.
If a war comes down between the liberal, and conservative in this country... the battle lines will be around the outside of the metro areas. Largely, that is were the two meet.
There are lots of liberals in the country, and lots of conservatives in the city... But that doesn't mean that there isn't a clear pattern established.
Again.. Look at the county by county breakdown of the last election.
Gore, like Kerry will, won the cities. Bush the counties.
There's a reason.
It is because of the lack of oxygen in the cities, that is why most people vote liberal there.
I think the folks who are on the public dime tend to congregate close to the trough, 'ya know? Don't have to go too far to feed. They stay in the cities so they can use public transportation to get back and forth to the various offices they go to sign up for the latest handout.
That, and, they're so desensitized to immorality and perversion that it doesn't bother them to vote for people who practice it.
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