For those who may be on a budget do not neglect the old SMLE or No4 MkI Enfield rifles of WWI/II fame. Slick bolt actions, can take a bayonet, .303 ammo is still easy to find and cheap, and the ones made in Canada or the Lend Lease Savages have nice heavy black walnut stocks with metal buttplates that really make the bad guys wish that you have shot them instead of buttstroking them. *Buttstroking is act of striking an enemy with the butt of your rifle. IT IS NOT an act commonly performed by nonmen in urban areas like San Fransisco.*
Well... I don't know about them san fransico folks... but I'd damn sure rather be shot than buttstroked... with anything.
I love my Mini-14...
...course it ain't exactly standard...it sure folds small though...
Mini-14's are not guns. They're random pipes poorly fitted together in such a fashion as to embarrass even the worst plumber.
Mini-14's are not guns.
Maybe not, but they're fun to shoot!
Can't go wrong with a heavy duty battle rifle. If your keeping it in the truck or trunk just about any rifle will fit the bill. If you want a gun that you can hide out in the cab or under the seat then you need a short gun like the Kel-tec, otherwise a full size gun that you don't have to fork an extra $300 bucks over to the ATF to own would be better. With a telescoping butt stock you can get an AR 15 that comes in under 29 in.
Course I've always wanted a 1921A1 with a a couple of 100 round drums.
Hey... the SU-16 is not considered a Class III weapon.
From the bottom of the linked page.
NOTE: both the D9 and D12 rifles are classified by the ATF as "Short barrel rifles" and the appropriate license and/or tax stamp must be acquired before purchasing
So, is this the $200 ATF tax instead of the $300 stamp?
Hmm.
That's a new one on me, Res. Ya' think that's left over from the Clinton gun ban? I know there is a length minimum for shotguns, I didn't know about one for rifles. Of course bureaucrats can't be expected to be logical about the 'short barreled rifle's we call pistols...
ARRGH!
I think a rifle barrel must be 16 in. I could be wrong but even the manufactur is saying their is a transfer tax.
My AR-15 with collapsable stock is the perfect truck gun.
Any 5.56 under an 18 inch barrel us just for show as far as I'm concerned. We get all these complaints from Iraq and Afghanistan about the lack of "everything" from the 5.56, so the feds test it in the a 20 inch barrel and say everything is fine. But they're issueing M-4s with 14 inch barrels that just make everything worse. Make mine 7.62X 51mm. I'd go for an AR-10A2.
EN,
Just about any semi auto config with a 308 and a 20 round or better mag beats any 5.56 config unless your needs are for a close up gun, in which case why not just go with a sub gun or a large cap 45?
Since were talking non milspec use and ammo supply is the responisibility of the user, I don't see how it matters either way.
Just to test my theory I'll run some 75 yard tests with the 45 latter in the week.
I noticed nobody has come out in favor of the 7.62x39 yet. 30 round semi w/ a 300 yard range. and you can buy them dirt cheap. Easy to repair too.
I think I'd use mine if I coudn't get my M1A first.
FN-FAL, now your talkin'!!!!!
I'd go with the 7.62x39 (in just about any bullet you want to name) then the 5.56. Its not a bad choice.
OK
Nate, what is the best urban warfare weapon, I was thinking along the lines of a 300 winchester mag. Great sniper rifle. At 100 yds will penetrate 1" steel plate. And carry a 40 smith springfield or eqivelent.
I guess I'm talking offensive instead of defensive here to make myself more clear. Might go with the B-A-R intead? hrmm?
“You want something that you can stick a bayonet on the end of”
Well…what ya really want are good extract plan. If you’re in a situation where ya need a bayonet, your pretty screwed.
Urban warfare... hrmm.. hard to argue with a shortbarrelled semi auto 12 gauge...
For sniping... well... a lot of personal preference is gonna come in here. I refuse to attempt anything over 500 yards with anything less than a 30 caliber bullet. You need mass out there.
Since I also have a bit of a preference for short-action guns... I am inclined to lean towards the short magnums.
I fail to see how anyone could argue with a 300 win mag... 7mm mag.. and so on...
I confess I have an 8mm fetish... that's a lot o' lead rollin' down range... dig?
I think I would go with the 300 weatherby or win mag for sniping.
I wouldn't argue with ya on that Gregg.
Res,
Only the D model falls into that catagory. The others are not considered "Short Barrelled Rifles". There is even a CA model for the commies livin' in california.
Gregg has it right with the BAR. A .308 lever gun sounds like a really good truck gun to me......
ARRGH!
.308 lever gun... I gots one of those...
But umm.. I think you're thinkin BLR matey.
All I remember about the mini-14 is that it was the weapon of choice for the "A-Team". They expended thousands of rounds every episode and never hit anyone. Must be something wrong with the weapon.
I noticed nobody has come out in favor of the 7.62x39 yet.
I love that little Russian round! It's what my AR is chambered for. Hmmm, for a lever gun, I'd go with .45-70, that'll stomp on somebody!
" Mini-14's are not guns. They're random pipes poorly fitted together in such a fashion as to embarrass even the worst plumber."
That sure sounds like the M16 to me. Not that they didn't get it right, eventually, but it took 40 years and untold numbers of revisions.
For short range work my mini does fine. Though I think I would use a paratrooper SKS or an AK as a better truck gun. I prefer .30 cal for better stopping power than that varmit .223.
Nobody likes the G3/CETME-pattern rifles? Don't laugh, I got a CETME that runs flawlessly and shoots 1.5 MOA with NATO ammo. For a truck gun, it's my Polish-kit-built AK. Both can mount a bayonet, and both will do some interesting dental work in hand-to-hand.
"If you’re in a situation where ya need a bayonet, your pretty screwed."
I think that pretty well sums it up. This fascination with bayonets is "interestink", but not very reasonable. You carry a bayonet, I'll keep my beat up 70 series Colt Commander (which resides in my truck anyway).
AWC
I for one really dig the CETME's as well... I just wouldn't take one over an FN-FAL.
The main advantage of the FAL is the fact that it was used in about 70 countries. "Left Arm of the Third World". 
Lots of spare parts floating around. Lots of US compliance parts. You can also re-barrel one without a 20-ton hydraulic press.
Nate,
Why the love affair with 5.56? At 300 yds, it's got the energy of .22LR at 100. At 300 yds a 7.62x39 will still knock 'em on their asses.
AWC
Love affair?
How long have you been here? I hate the .223. I recommend it for this little gun because it's a given that it wouldn't be used at range. 30 yards... 40 yards... out to 100 yards. I've written extensively about the uselessness of the .223 as a duty round.
But the 7.62x39? Are you shittin' me? That's a POS round if ever there was one.
Take roughly the same powder pushing a .223, and put it behind a 30 caliber bullet... That's just plain stupid.
Never get a 30 cal. smaller than .308.
Commenting by HaloScan
