For the most part, you're right about the races not wanting to associate with each other, and there's nothing racist about it.
There is one exception, however, and that is in the church. Nowhere else do I see a more successful example of complete racial and ethnic integration.
It ain't in the liberal churches either. Those are split along racial lines that are rarely penetrated. The only time you see a white man in a black liberal church is when he is trying to rally votes. He doesn't care about the people there, he just wants their votes.
It's the conservative, evangelical churches where you see true integration. But then you have a totally different set of values as the rest of the world, and those values are shared by all who are present.
Umm...
I dunno partner... Church would be the first place I would go to show the difference in race.
There are black churches, and there are white churchers... and the fact that they preach the same things simply means nothing.
They have no desire to worship together.
Here in the Minneapolis area, you'll find scores of churches that are as you say, but they are either small churches in racially homogenous areas or they are liberal churches. The large, conservative churches are quite integrated.
dude.. come on.. its minnesota... Be honest... You don't have black people there.
EZ
I'd have to agree with Nate on this one. There is a better chance of integration with faith, but you will see that with any interest group. Those who like football/bikes/guns/bowling (whatever) will come together because of a common interest.
But a church is entirely voluntary. And in a completely voluntary situation you will see people preferences. hence the prevalence of all black churches, or all white churches.
ok, you got me 
I meant Nate, you got me.
Nate
not quite sure what I think about your daycare plan, but I do believe (know, I've seen it) that those who dont want to go are a HUGE source of problems. Also, inside schools where everyone wants to learn there should be seperation of skill level and ability so as to not slow down the faster learners and give extra help to those that actually need/want it.
Erik,
My experience was that there was a seperation of skill levels when I was in school. In grade school, the hard subjects (English, Math, Science, and Social Studies) were split into three levels: the slow, the average, and the advanced. The school I went to split each grade into three classes, and each teacher took a different skill level of each subject. We'd have one main teacher, but might go to the other classes for those specific subjects, based on which level that teacher taught.
In high school, where a different teacher teaches each subject, that just inherant.
That's all good and well... but advanced is no where near advanced enough.
You end up with 3 levels...
Slow, Slower, and average.
Let’s not forget that it was God, acting in response to man’s sin, who separated us with different languages.
Nate,
I don't disagree. I was just saying that there IS seperation. The fact that the teaching within each seperation sucks wasn't my point.
I went to an above-average government school and got a mediocre education. I was one of the lucky ones.
I don't see where you are coming from with the idea that different races don't want to associate with each other. I don't know anybody who gives a damn what color someone's skin is when they're choosing who to hang out with.
Yes, people look surprised at us walking around all the time, but we've only met two other black/white couples in this town. However, there are lots of mixed families--Mormons mostly, with adopted kids. By the time our kids are adults, no one will notice us anymore. It's a novelty issue.
There's roughly the same percentage of different races at our church as there are in the town in general.
You're really working hard for that designation aren't ya? Carry on good sir.
BoysMom,
You probably share roughly the same culture as your spouse. The people Nate is talking about have a unique culture that is very different than the main american caucasian culture.
Any person wants to be among the familiar. People generally do not choose to subject themselves to uncomfortable things.
If I may, I'm guessing Nate is talking about culture as much as he is talking about race.
That race correlates so well with culture in most cases only makes quick visual identification all the easier.
Athor,
My husband is not American. We've had to deal with a number of cultural issues. We're still working on some. At this point, he's accepted that he's going to change some diapers, I've accepted that he'll probably never get his dirty dishes the five feet from the table to the sink. We compromise a lot.
It is true that the blacks I know are highly educated Christians. To that extent, the cultures do match. But all the other cultural issues such as food, clothing, division of housework, child-rearing, and so on, don't.
I'm not really sure what that tells us about culture. Perhaps some people are more willing to get along with other cultures, and find their ways into such situations, and that might be what happens here.
It might be a rural thing. There may not be enough people for the sort of cultural groups you're talking about.
I'm sure what you're saying about racial divisions must be true for your part of the country. I haven't seen it here, and I do find it hard to believe. In this area we see a religious division, Mormons vs. Non-Mormons. Perhaps it's the same sort of thing.
As far as education goes, most kids would be better off with an apprenticeship. I would've been.
Can you still legally do that in this country, or would it be considered indentured servitude or something?
There's plenty to be said for general, broad education. But it doesn't give you a skill that pays the bills.
"At this point, he's accepted that he's going to change some diapers, I've accepted that he'll probably never get his dirty dishes the five feet from the table to the sink."
I don't think this is cultural. Men and women don’t care about the same things.
The Mormon VS non Mormon thing (while they are apt to break laws when they can) isn’t quite the same. Mormons don’t generally burn down sections of Salt Lake and rob each other at gun point, then have Jesse Jackson come in and tell them its all the non Mormons fault.
The idea of "non-racial" churches is not historical and absent almost anywhere outside the US. There are russian churches, arab churches, hoptic (north african) churches, greek churches, western european churches. The idea of a cultural ambiguous church is a modern invention. People have always prefered to stick with people that come from a common background because they can relate to each other better.
Boysmom,
I suggest you go to college campus, or any high school cafeteria. Pay attention to the seating arrangements.
You'll find blacks in one section, whites in the other. This is true in class rooms, in resturants, in church. It's true everywhere.
Will there be exceptions? Of course. But exceptions are only noticable because of the existance of rules.
Blacks especially chose to segregate themselves. See Vibe and BET for details.
Yeah, a lot depends on where you're at. Up here in NH, there are very few blacks, but "they" are all as well educated as any of the other kids, and the adults are the same.
We have several in our church, and they're bascially the same as all us whiteys. But that's here.
Send up 500 from New Orleans, and it's a whole new deal. Look at the shit going on in Houston schools right now. Gang fights between the Houston kids and the NO kids, all the (expected) good stuff.
Nate is right, and there's no racist aspect to it, the truth is the truth whether you like it or not.As soon as a child shows he/she does not want to be there, they're out. The parents can then piss away their money on private school, or homeschool them.
Don't speak of the "abandoning a child to ignorance thing" as if the kid doesn't want to be there, they will learn nothing anyway, nor will anyone else.
*And yes, all races segregate themselves, knowingly or not.
At our company BBQ yesterday, spanish/latinos in one area, blacks in another, asians in another, and whites in another still. No animocity, no bad feelings, just the way it works. Who cares?
for education to occur, they must choose to be an active participant.
Bingo, Nate.
I generally agree w/ your post, but I'd like to supplement your thought process. I think the reason black folks voluntarily segregate themselves in this country has more to do w/ social problems than it does w/ racial differences. In the U.S., black folks are taught by the media, the public "school" system, almost every form of entertainment imaginable, & by their so-called leaders that whitey is out to get them. When one person becomes convinced this is true, he passes this mindset on to his children. Eventually, it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle of hate. And the liberals of all stripes in this country play that for all it's worth.
Case-in-point: Louis Farrakhan actually suggested that the broken levies in Nawleuhns were destroyed intentionally by the gummint to drown black people. That's a disgraceful lie, but there are large numbers of people who like & respect him, so they believe what he says.
Why would you integrate w/ people who want to kill, denigrate, or enslave you?
Wes,
I would be more inclined to agree with you if blacks weren't universally poor and uneducated all over the world, and the more political power and control the blacks have in their government, the poorer and more miserable they are.
You make a good point. Taking power away from whites in certain African countries & giving it to blacks did nothing positive for the socioeconomic welfares of those nations.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but blacks in Great Britain put up similar economic figures to those of whites.
The recent batch of black caribbean immigrants to "Great" (eh heh hehehe HAHAHAHAHA AHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAH ohhhh whew hehehe) Britain has also been causing more crime. Much more than their fair share.
If a small number of blacks can escape from the rest of their kind, they can easier integrate into their new culture and succeed in life.
Andrew...
How white is the government of Great Brittian? Even so, they do no better there than here.
To hell with political correctness, its nothing but another term invented by liberals to try and control asshole conservatives.
Annoying liberal: "You can't say that!"
Asshole conservative: "Why the fuck not?!"
Annoying liberal: "For the same reason you can't say "fuck" its not PC"
Since I've taken myself out of the political process can I just ignore anything referring to "political" correctness?
If its "political" it obviously can't be correct - That's why the term "politically correct" is a contradiction in terms. The words political, politician, etc. are the vilest, filthiest, most disgusting, most obscene words in the english language. They have become a synonym for "morally corrupt" or "morally bankrupt".
As far as the problems in Africa go, my husband's pointed out on a couple of occasions that Africans, as a group, do not have the social history to support western-style government. In the west, we have thousands of years between individual village based society and modern centralized government. We tried to skip Africa over most of those thousands of years. Socially, they don't have the background for how we govern.
In most of Africa, they hadn't yet reached the monarchy stage, nor were they moving in that direction. The abundance of basic resources eliminated the need for competition over them.
Down here in Hammond, Louisiana there must be at least 10-20 churches of separate churches of similar apostolic beliefs. My church is one of the white churches and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We've done everything to integrate and it just doesn't happen. Education makes no difference and neither do beliefs.
I visited a black friend's all black church in the next town and the pastor had to step to the pulpit and welcome "our light skinned brother" before I could get a friendly look. At the end of service only a couple of people introduced themselves.
True enough, Nate. Let people integrate on their own terms. Leave the government out of it.
Commenting by HaloScan
