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Q: Do you have any problem with the starters playing this deep in a decided (and now meaningless) game? I mean, I know it's a rivalry and all, but come on.
At this point, I think it would serve Pea-brained Poodle Pete right if one of his guys got hurt (not that I normally endorse that kind of thing). Just think if Bush/Leinart got hurt and couldn't play in the Rose Bowl. You think beating UCLA by 50 would justify that?
1) USC routinely pulled its starters midway through the 3rd quarter this year. Texas played their starters all game. There is a month off before the Rose Bowl. Settle down Francis.
2) We need to begin a movement to convince White to stay for one more year. If he plays next year, he is immediately a Heisman favorite, has a chance to win another championship, and has a shot at the NFL draft without Bush stealing the limelight. Will White be drafted if he leaves this year? Of course, probably in the first round. But it sure would be great if he came back for one more year.
Yessssssss!
I can't wait to see Mike Tran's smiling face!!
Gay-re,
The above question was directed towards Brendan. I don't read his blog to see what you think.
I would prefer if Pete took the starters out a little sooner, but I'm not losing sleep at night over it, either. And if UCLA did the same thing to us someday, I wouldn't lose sleep over that, either. Like you said, it's a rivalry game. (Now, there are 8:53 left in the fourth, and the starters are out. If they weren't out now, I would be complaining.)
P.S. Gahrie, don't mind BK, your comments are welcomed. :)
Hey, I had no problem with him either, until he called me Francis.
I have really lost all patience (what little I had) for Domer's like BK with their comments like this:
Pea-brained Poodle Pete
Trash talking is one thing, but this sort of classless behavior is just pathetic. Pea-brained? Yeah cause he is such a stupid coach alright...
Even before the ND game you didn't see any Trojan's on this board taking cheap shots at Charlie Weis, in fact you were more likely to see respect for what he has done this year for Notre Dame.
But I guess you are just jealous that your team isn't going for its third national championship in a row and another undefeated season.
Or maybe its the fact that your team hasn't lost only 3 games in the past four years. And check out those losses:
2002
Kansas State 27
USC 20
That year Kansas State went 10-2 and ended up ranked 6th in the Nation
2002 (OT)
WSU 30
USC 27
The Cougars also went 10-2 this season, and would have gone to the National Championship game if not for an upset win by Washington in the Apple Cup in TRIPLE overtime. The Cougars finished the season ranked 7th
2003 (3 OT)
Cal 34
USC 31
Cal finished the season 8-6, but were on their way to a 10-2 Season the next year.
Over the past 4 seasons, including todays game the trojans are 43-3. Yeah your right, Pete Carol is an idiot...
What the hell, they cut away from the USC game?!?! I don't care about the start of the ACC championship game start, I want to see the end of the USC game damnit!
... Domer's ...
... Trojan's ...
... Yeah your right, Pete Carol is an idiot...
Your patience must be where you keep your ability to communicate in English, since you appear to have lost both.
David, I think you're taking the Pete Carroll dig too seriously... it's a joke... just my opinion.
Meanwhile, I've seen you make this claim before, and I think I corrected you on it before... anyway, it's definitely wrong:
The Cougars also went 10-2 this season, and would have gone to the National Championship game if not for an upset win by Washington in the Apple Cup in TRIPLE overtime.
The national championship game that year was between undefeated Miami and undefeated Ohio State -- the last non-controversial pairing prior to this year's USC-Texas title game. What you're remembering is that the Huskies deprived Wazzu of a shot at the national championship game, because at the time the Apple Cup was played, Miami still had a game left, and the Cougars would have been next in line if the Hurricanes had lost. But Miami did not in fact lose, so Washington State would not have gone to the title game no matter what.
David, is it true that WSU was going to the national championship game in 2002 with a win over Washington? I don't remember that being the case. I am pretty sure that Miami and Ohio St. were going to go regardless, and WSU was #3 entering the Apple Cup. With USC and Texas, I couldn't be more pleased with today's outcome. Both teams looked dominant and both marquee players had monster games, setting up what should look like one of the better national championship matchups. Of course, that was the CW going into Oklahoma/USC, too, and we saw how that ended up.
Oops, addressed that ahead of me Brendan, thank you.
what a brilliant comeback kormal, i make a few grammar errors in an internet post while paying more attention to a football game than what I'm typing. I'm fairly certain my ability to communicate in English is doing just fine. I assume you are another Domer, bitter that your team isn't as good as USC though so I shouldn't expect much.
Wow David, you sure showed me! And to think, you didn't even address the issue that my comments were pointed towards!
If you look through the good-natured name calling, you will see that I was asking a real question: Why still play your starters when everything you have worked for all year (a shot at the aforementioned title) is a lock? Call me risk-adverse, but I (along with a good number coaches out there) would have benched my key players once the game was in hand -- rivalry game or not. I was simply looking for Brendan's view on it.
Good luck on your quest to defend (USC's coach) against all nay-sayers.
I feel like Peppermint Patty at Chuck's Thanksgiving. Switchover? Where's "Conquest?" Where's the dispensing of roses on the field? Where's the Gatorade? If I want to miss out on the last three minutes of a football game, I'll watch the NFL.
Yeah, it's a blowout. But catharsis, man. Freaking catharsis.
Anyway: Beat (boom, boom) the Longhorns! Beat (boom, boom) the Longhorns!
Brendan, everyone--thanks for today.
Ah yes that was the year WSU was ranked 3 not 2 in the polls.
As for you BK, the name calling gets a little old and sounds like sour grapes so yes, it pisses me off.
As for keeping the starters in the game, I'm guessing it was because a number of them were close to breaking various records and Pete wanted to give them their chance to do so. And even though some starters were still in a number of them were not at that point, especially on the line.
I am inclined to hope that a coach pulls his starters early in blow out wins, but given that Pete doesn't have a history of leaving them in, i'm guessing that in this case it was for the above mentioned reason given that White did break a record, and Bush could have beaten the record for rushing yards in a game at the rate he was going.
yeah wtf
see the end of a rivalry game involving the no1 team in the nation, or watch the pregame and first monutes of the ACC championship???
what kind of idiot cuts away from something interesting to see this crap.
anyways, fight on and all that! USC!
I HATE HALOSCAN
above was me
In ABC's defense, they also cut away (in the South Bend broadcast anyway) from the end of the Texas game to show the start of the USC game... and I'm sure we were all glad they made that decision, I know I was... likewise, I'm sure Virginia Tech and Florida State fans are glad they cut away from the end of another "boring" blowout game to show the start of this game... alas, you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Did anyone watch the game in the L.A. area? Did they cut away there, too? I'm guessing not.
I'm fairly certain my ability to communicate in English is doing just fine.
You're only fairly certain? Wow, it's worse than I thought.
I assume you are another Domer, bitter that your team isn't as good as USC though so I shouldn't expect much.
For someone who has spent the last week hysterically wailing about what a travesty it is for the BCS to select Notre Dame over Oregon, your baseless accusations about bitterness are somewhat ironic.
And did I say anything in my post about Notre Dame? Or Southern Cal? At all?
P.S. I posted Conquest in the post above, you can listen to it there if you like. :)
That is true but they have no problem cutting away from the game in some areas and staying in other areas during the season. Would it have been all that difficult to finish showing the game on the West Coast? Likewise I would think they could have kept the Texas game going in their regional market.
Also you didn't post conquest, you posted fanfare/tribute/fight-on
Oops... will fix
Kormal, again continuing to try and trash talk using GRAMMAR. Pretty sad if you ask me.
As for bitterness? You think I have some deep seated love for the Ducks? For goodness sake I am a Washington Alum, we hate the Ducks. I am merely upset that a team that has done more to deserve the BCS slot in terms of the actual game is going to get left out because a team is being picked based on its popularity and ability to bring in money. Thats not bitterness, its called outrage at an injustice.
You think I have some deep seated love for the Ducks?
Never said you did, but ...
Thats not bitterness, its called outrage at an injustice.
... proves my point about hysterical whining. Calling anything related to the BCS an "injustice" is beyond absurd. For more examples of your staggering exaggeration of the situation, see your reply to the A Few Good Men parody posted here a few days ago.
The fact that you have no love for the Ducks just makes the behavior all the more inexplicably sad.
P.S. The apostrophe is your friend.
Would it have been all that difficult to finish showing the game on the West Coast? Likewise I would think they could have kept the Texas game going in their regional market.
My assumption is that they DID do this, but did not keep the USC game on for the entire "West Coast," but rather just California or SoCal. Hence my asking if anyone was watching in the L.A. area and can tell us. Same question for people in the Texas or Colorado area, re: the Big 12 title game.
Kormal, "injustice" does not necessarily mean "grave injustice." Obviously, there are different levels of injustice, but by definition, if something is unfair -- unjust -- then it is an injustice. Thus it is not a " staggering exaggeration" to say so.
I strongly suspect that David would agree that, for example, slavery and segregation were considerably greater "injustices" than Oregon being left out of the BCS. But just because there are lots of things that are more unjust doesn't mean that something relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but still unfair in its own little unimportant sphere (football), isn't an "injustice." Indeed, it is, by definition.
You miss my point, Brendan. While I'm familiar with the definition of "injustice," my point is that the BCS by definition is not about treating teams fairly. It's about matching up the #1 and #2 teams in the National Championship game, and then setting up exciting match-ups for the remaining three games within the agreed-upon rules (automatic bids, etc.). Fairness plays no role.
To the extent it does, my opinion (and the point of the comment) is that the level of David's reaction to it over the past week or so has gone way beyond anything remotely rational or proportional to the perceived unfairness.
David, didn't you graduate from Washington? Didn't you say you only went to USC for a year? Can you get off our bandwagon, please, you're hurting our cause.
Kormal, the institution of the "Kansas State rule" guaranteeing the #3 or #4 team an at-large spot if they are non-champions, which was a reaction to the perceived unfairness of #3 KSU being left out some years back in favor of more "exciting match-ups," proves that you are incorrect that "fairness plays no role." Year in and year out, there are debates about the fairness of the BCS selections. That said, it is certainly true that the bowls make their decisions primarily based on other factors -- but suppose Notre Dame was #12 in the BCS instead of #8... and suppose Oregon was #5, and had played USC within 10 points instead of getting blown out... the Fiesta Bowl might very well pick ND anyway, but if you don't think they'd at least consider the possible public-relations fiasco that the perceived "unfairness" would cause, you're... well, you're wrong. They might consider it and dismiss it, but it would certainly play into their deliberations. Thus fairness certainly does play a role... not a dispositive role, but a role nonetheless. Moreover, to the extent that fairness is outweighed by other factors, there is nothing inherently wrong with people arguing about it and saying fairness/merits should play a greater role than they currently do. Just because things are a certain way now, doesn't mean people are required to accept that they should always be that way.
That said, I don't disagree with you that David's level of outrage has been out-of-proportion... I merely object to 1) your suggestion that his use of the term "injustice" proves this, 2) your blanket statement, clearly false, that "fairness plays no role," and 3) your underlying assumption that, because fairness currently plays a very small (or "no") role, people like David therefore have no business arguing that perhaps it should play a greater role.
P.S. Of course, the Fiesta Bowl could pick both ND and Oregon in my scenario, if they wanted to... but that's not really the point... suppose there was only one spot available, and it was a direct ND vs. Oregon decision... fairness absolutely would come into the equaton, even if the decision ultimately made was the "unfair" one.
My outrage has been inflamed due to the counter reactions of people like Kormal and thebeef, but I have toned it down as per your request Brendan. Note my comment above did not in anyway pick on the Irish (who are after all blameless in this whole affair if chosen).
as for you 'SC Alum, I went to the school and have just as much right to cheer for the team as you do. I also spent some time in the marching band and attended every home game that year cheering on the team despite the fact that they sucked. I have never stopped cheering for the Trojans, and did so this year AGAINST Washington because I wanted them to achieve their 3-pete.
Hmmm, what if I spent a little more than "some" time in the band, and you know, didn't elect to leave the school? I'm just saying, root for whomever you want to, just please stop "defending" us, because you do such a bad job at it.
Why would you go from 'SC to U-Dub anyway?
Damn, I wish I had logged on earlier; I love it when David short-circuits. I particularly enjoy when David writes about Notre Dame's failures under Ty Willingham, the beloved coach of his hapless "Dawgs."
By the way David, Notre Dame fans love to call Carroll "Pete the Poodle," but we didn't come up with the name ourselves. Pete "I just want to be one of the guys" Carroll earned the name while failing in the NFL.
And are you serious!? You're complaining about trash-talking on a message board!? Do you have any idea how lame that is? (Come to think of it...that's about as lame as posting on a message board on a Saturday night...but I digress)
Yes David, I appreciate your toning it down, and I realize you weren't talking about ND above, except for the brief reference to the "injustice," a reference which I was defending. I was merely seeking common ground with kormal by saying that "I don't disagree with you that David's level of outrage has been out-of-proportion" -- which doesn't necessarily mean it is continuing to be so, just that it has been so. :) I was just trying to be clear about where exactly I agreed with kormal and where exactly I disagreed.
What!? David's toned it down? I suppose, but considering read this:
"I have really lost all patience (what little I had) for Domer's like BK with their comments like this:
Pea-brained Poodle Pete
Trash talking is one thing, but this sort of classless behavior is just pathetic. Pea-brained? Yeah cause he is such a stupid coach alright...
Even before the ND game you didn't see any Trojan's on this board taking cheap shots at Charlie Weis, in fact you were more likely to see respect for what he has done this year for Notre Dame.
But I guess you are just jealous that your team isn't going for its third national championship in a row and another undefeated season.
Or maybe its the fact that your team hasn't lost only 3 games in the past four years. And check out those losses:
2002
Kansas State 27
USC 20
That year Kansas State went 10-2 and ended up ranked 6th in the Nation
2002 (OT)
WSU 30
USC 27"
That's toning it down? Well, considering David's lunacy over the past football season perhaps it is
(And yes, I'm well aware that I'm an asshole that loves to antagonize David, but still...)
beef, notice that I didn't complain about the Pete the Poodle reference. Although I think its lacking in class, its not inherently insulting. What bothered me is the Pea-Brained part, not because its some damning insult, but because it is clearly not true.
Fair enough, but I think BK answered that complaint well...he was referring to the fact that Pete left the starters in fairly late, not Pete's record as college coach
why did you leave usc, david?
there were a number of reasons, none of them related to the school itself really, I had a great tiem and met some of my closest friends, people who I am still in touch with to this day (including our esteemed host).
one of the reasons though was the city itself. L.A. and I just didn't get along very well. Suffice it to say it was one fo the most difficult decisions of my life, because 'SC was and still is a fantastic school, and I am glad that was atleast a part of such a grand tradition. My freshman year was actually the first year we beat UCLA after their long streak of wins and I got the chance to brush a streak of red paint atop the blue on the Victory Bell after the game (i think I skipped class for that).
'SC Alum, well considering that the band was one of the reasons I chose to leave the school I wouldn't exactly hold that up as a good reason.
Ah, so then, you were a pussy. And that shit doesn't fly even in the clam section, does it? Weak.
If you can't drink, can't hang, and can't play balls-to-the-wall every day, then I guess you do belong in the land of the subsidized suckage that is UW.
Someone must have spent a lot of time in the head on the bus.
LOL... yeah, you did skip class for that, I remember that.
Of course, I skipped class so that I could videotape your reaction to Microsoft being declared a monopoly, but that's another story.
why didn't you just quit the band?
'SC alum, f*** off. Not everyone has to enjoy vulgar drunken revelry, and the fact that they don't, doesn't mean they "can't" handle it... they just prefer not to. There are many different ways for people to enjoy themselves, and those that don't like to do things the way you do aren't necessarily therefore "pussies."
You complaining about David being "bad" at defending USC, but comments like yours are going to make it a lot harder to convince the resident Trojan-hating Domers that the band (and, by extention, the rest of the university... don't question their logic, USC hatred is not logical) isn't made up of a bunch of classless assholes.
'SC Alum
Actually I could care less about the drinking, and since the band up here does it to (as do most bands I'd guess) that complaint is pretty weak. As for not being able to handle it , well lets put it this way. When the freshman had to run for whatever crap-ass reason Bartner and the vets came up with I was one of the first people done. I was a three sport varsity athlete in highschool in addition to being in an award winning marching band and Jazz band. I could handle any of the athletic stuff, and any of the musical stuff. To be honest I found the charts and songs up here to be more challenging.
What I didn't like about the Trojan Band was the condescending attitude and class-less behavior. Having pride and a little bit of an ego is fine, especially in sports. But there is no defense for being a prick, and sadly thats what the megolomaniac Bartner and most of the band bought into. Which is a pretty sad thing considering how classy and welcoming the rest of the University was.
No, what I didn't want to be a part of is a group that has to have off duty cops sent with it on away trips by the University to keep it from being an embarrasment.
And if that makes me bad in your book, well frankly I don't give a rats ass what you think then. I'm proud to have been a Trojan, and proud to defend USC. I'm ashamed to have been a part of that band.
So why not just quit the band? Why leave the school? That just doesn't make sense unless the band doesn't let you quit or something.
So USC is your alma mater like brendanloy.com is your homepage, a place you like to talk up your association with, but you really aren't a part of. That makes sense, I guess. Davidkreutz.com is nonexistent, about like UW in the football dept. It's fun to hang around with the cool kids, huh?
LOL... I am now the "cool kids"? That's pretty funny.
You're an ass, 'SC alum.
Do you ever ban people from posting on the comments? Cause this dude is really not helping the image of USC that David found offensive. Yeah, people argue on this board a lot and say stuff to provoke a response, but there is a huge difference between this and the semi-anonymous poster being a c**ka**.
I agree, Wobbly, but I have only banned someone once, and it was for REALLY REALLY REALLY egregious conduct. I don't make a habit of it, even when people are being asses.
There are asses at every school and in every organization. This is true of USC, the USC band, Notre Dame, Washington, whatever. But we're not all bad--either at 'SC or in the band. Things have turned a corner since about five years ago; it's a kinder, gentler TMB now.
'SC alumna,
That is encouraging to hear, and the reason I stayed in the band for a month (much longer than the other people who dropped out, most after the first week) was in large part due to my squad leader, who was a senior but treated us like people. There were also other people who i was friends with or were atleast aquaintences in the band. The trouble is they were forced to be pretty passive about it, as the assholes, while they may not have been the majority, were definitely in power.
One of the reasons I chose USC and chose to be in the band was how energetic and spirited they were when I saw them at the events i attended when i was looking at the school. I know that they have a storied and impressive history and they are musically and performance wise still a great band. Its just too bad that there was the trouble that I mentioned before. But you would find no person who would be more glad if the bands attitude and behavior had improved to match that I have seen from the rest of the University.
wanda
Although I was dissapointed with my experience in the marching band, it certainly was not the reason I chose to transfer. Most of the reasons I chose to leave had nothign to do with the school itself, in fact the aspects of USC other than the band almost kept me there. As I said it was an incredibly difficult decision. But even though I decided to leave I have never stopped singing the praises of USC. I actually talked a couple of people to attend USC.
I will always consider myself a proud Trojan, and continue to support my first college, despite the fact that there are assholes there like 'SC Alum. Brendan was right, there are assholes at every school, but i also know that the school itself is a great one, filled with great people, and nothing he does can change my mind about that.
'SC Alum, I saved you for last
First, the reason I have BrendanLoy.com as my homepage is primarily to differentiate myself from other people also named David who post here from time to time. No I don't have a webpage of my own, but I don't think Brendan minds since I'm also a guestblogger here. Which is awesome cause it means I am one of the cool kids like him :-)
As for being a part of it, one of the things I was told when I was considering USC is that once you are a Trojan you are always a Trojan. So if thats what they tell me, i'm going to believe it, rather than you. And I am going to guess, based on both our behavior, that if they could choose they would rather be associated with me than with you.
Oh, and yes our football program sucks, but thats what we get for having hired Rick Neuheisal, former UCLA Bruin as our coach a few years back. But trying to insult me because of it is not going to do much. When your team is 2-9 its pretty self evident.
Hey, Neuweasel was a solid coach who brought UW to the Rose Bowl following the 2002 season. Unfortunately for all his talent in recruiting and coaching he had a severe lack of emotional intelligence and no respect for either honesty or NCAA rules. I still don't understand why the program went so far south so quick after his firing.
No Neuweasel was a mediocre coach who took UW to the Rose Bowl with Lambrights team. As for his recruting skills, have you been watching UW the past few years? Part of the reason that we are in the situation that we are is because of his crap-tacular recruiting. Oh sure he managed to schmooze one or two big names into coming, but he forgot to recruit any kind of solid depth over all. UW has historical had a powerful defense, not so anymore.
As for going south so far, well part of it is the lack of depth, thanks to Neuweasels craptacular recruiting. Part of it is the inconsistency in the program as a whole. First there was the sudden coaching change due to Slick Ricks firing (btw, I am of the opinion that Gilbertson knew that he was looking at a situation where he would not have a lot of chance at being succesful, and his coaching tenure ws therefore pretty much going to be shortlived. he took one for the team by becoming coach in the hopes of keeping SOME consistency), and then the ousting (he resigned but would have been fired) of Gilbertson. We have had 3 coaches in four years.
The only way the UW is going to get better is to give a coach the chance to rebuild the team. I believe that Willingham can do that. He understands both the need to recruit solid football players who will work hard, not just one or two bluechips. He will work hard to get local players to stay here. And he will be a much better influence as a coach then Neuweasel ever was. Not only that but with our new President and Athletic Director, both who understands what needs to happen, UW won't be in the basement for long.
"Once a Trojan, always a Trojan." I'm pretty sure I remember hearing this at the same time I heard "you're a Bruin for four years, but you're a Trojan for life." I don't think the phrase contemplates those who transfer before their sophomore year. I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything, I'm just saying your connections to USC are not greater than mine are to, say, Georgia Tech, because I spent two summer sessions there. If I showed up on messageboards or the street singing "The Ramblin' Wreck," I think I'd feel (and look) rather foolish explaining that I actually got my degree elsewhere. What? No, I didn't transfer late, I just spent about a year there. Yeah, well Georgia Tech's a great team, and I loved it there. Once a Yellowjacket...
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