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Amen on the eyebrow. I liked Kaine's delivery though - slow and steady.
Joe Biden is on CBS right now giving a recap of the "Axis of Evil: 4 Years Later". Other than Saddam gone, not a terribly inspiring story.
Your wife's insights notwithstanding, its difficult to see where the concerns of the Davids/dcls back here were addressed.
Will we be paying $1,000+/yr for the rest of our lives to finance these forays into the Middle East?
Probably. Nothing from tonight suggested otherwise.
I'm glad a speech that was high on symbolism and low on actual details isn't enough to get my vote.
I thought it was incredibly disingenous. 'Fix' Social Security? Second guessing is not a strategy? This president perhaps needs a bit of self doubt, some questioning, rather than forging ahead with whatever pops into his tiny head first. Oh, and BEWARE THE HUMAN-ANIMAL HYBRIDS. THEY MIGHT BE AL-QAEDA. WE MUST WIRETAP THEM, BEFORE THEY RUN OFF IN THEIR HYDROGEN POWERED CARS! It's a plot line from fucking Zippy.
I've rarely yelled back at the screen so much, although perhaps it's the alcohol. Had I been close to a weapon besides the couch pillows, I'm sure violence against the television would have ensued.
I was far less upset over Kaine's response, although I do admit that I found myself looking around the room at other things while he spoke; counted my CDs, fiddled with remote control, pondered where that paper clip on the table came from, etc....
Oh well.
Did anyone notice that Bush asked for a line item veto from Congress? Has something changed, cause I thought the line item veto was unconstitutional? (am i wrong? cause if I am please politely explain this to me) Did he not consult Professor Kelley on that one? Does he think that with Roberts and Alito the Supreme Court will reverse itself from 10 years ago?
Also did anyone else notice that he spent the first 10 minutes talking about all the great things for the world? Can we fix some problems at home before we force Zimbabwe to become a democracy, just maybe?
Did anyone notice that Bush asked for a line item veto from Congress? Has something changed, cause I thought the line item veto was unconstitutional?
Since when has violating the Constitution ever bothered Bush?
I didn't think the speech was all that good, but judging by who's upset, maybe I should reconsider . . .
And was Spock's nerdy brother really the BEST the Dems could counter with?
"...I'm too tipsy from all the references to 'freedom' to have a really well-informed opinion."
Metaphorically, all Jim Beam jokes Aside: so is our President, I fear. :| However, as always, I shall continue to Hope otherwise. / Yeah, it was a Good Speech. Very Inspiring. / So, what happens Now? :|
The best thing about Kaine's speech was that every time he said "There's a better way," he highlighted a sucess that did not involve the federal government.
Damn straight there's a better way. That way is to stop looking to the federal government to fix every little problem.
You know, Hugh is so right. The Republicans are a serious threat to National Security and the Freedoms our nation stands for. It is good of him to recognize that.
So the Democrats are now the party of small government?
Sweet!
You got yourself a smart lass there Brendan.
And are you shocked that the Mouse, David and dcl didn't like the speech?? I mean, seriously.
As a few more minutes passed, it occured to me that this speech is CLASSIC Bush.
I have ranted elsewhere on this venerated blog that the problem with Dubya is that his support is often framed on the basis of his intelligence, or ideas, or heart, or something - but never on what he does, which is curiously his job description.
In the ouevre of the "President Who Wasn't There", tonight was classic. Where were the stats? Where were the plans? The programs? The policies?
Something about 70,000 new science teachers, which is DYNOMITE! - but we all know that the real reason we are behind the Japanese/Chinese is because
JAPAN/CHINA - Kids study their asses off.
US - Kids sit in front of tvs playing XBox 3, eating donuts, getting fat, and yelling at mom "You can't make me do my homework! The social worker said I could have you arrested!"
Dubya touched on that. I guess. Something about "people question the moral decay of this society"
(Whacha gonna do about it Mr. President?)
"I'm gonna invoke the Lord and pray it all better".
(Hey! Thanks a bunch).
This non-Presidential Presidency jumped the shark, if it hasn't already, in one of the few serious moments of a canned Presidential speech that actually made me burst into laughter. Might have been the most unintentionally funny thing a serious President ever said came out tonight.
Social security.
Dear Lord the social security part.
He actually did have a plan once...sort of...on social security, but it wasn't all that good and turned out to screw his supporters more than they thought.
Still - a plan.
Tonight? A bipartisan commission to STUDY THE ISSUE.
Friends, I gotta tell ya, about 15 years or so I was a high school debater (its where I learned to rant so meanly at people I don't know). Our topic was Aging in America.
Gently, to those who continue to support the President: if you think that the bipartisan commission to study the issue amounted to a President-worthy "plan", I can offer you a large amount of swampland, which I will even fill in with mountains of bipartisan plans studying social security. You might be able to fill several libraries with all the bipartisan plans that study social security.
But - that's your President.
Inspiring speech, Joe?
In response to your question, what happens now? What do you think, given the track record of the Chief 'Executive' and those best-laid plans shared tonight?
"So the Democrats are now the party of small government?"
Heh. If only. If it were, I might switch. But no, they want to take that "better way" and let the feds destroy it. Ah well.
The most telling part of the reaction to Bush's mention of Social Security was the Dems' almost jubilant howling that it hasn't been fixed (still waiting for the "better way" on that one). A bit of a Freudian slip, that. I have no doubt they'd like to keep SS nice and sh*tty in order to preserve the issue and keep someone else from getting credit for fixing it.
Mama, the problem with your argument is that Social Security is not actually broken, so much as it has been raped and pillaged by pork barrel line items and other wantonly reckless spending so that the money is not there as it has been borrowed by every other part of the federal government.
I liked the presidents there is nothing there thing from last year, where he pulled out T-bills from a file cabinet. This is to suggest what? that out investment in government bonds is worthless... good plan. Good thing everyone thinks the guy has no idea what he is talking about. If Greenspan had done that we would all be living in a card board box in Botswana right now.
Best Wonkette quote:
"When is someone going to point out that the post 9/11 act is like the clown car of presidential authority? All these rights keep pouring out. I expect him to hit me with a pie soon."
Ahh, the Eyebrow. Living in Maryland, I was in close proximity to VA. Lets just say the eyebrow is ALWAYS like that. Everyone noticed it - and it seemed particularly prevelant during the VA gubernatorial debates from the screen captures I saw. I suspect there was a Daily Show on it, and if there wasn't, there should be. :D
Kaine beat his opponent with . . . THE EYEBROW OF DEATH!!!! Now to see if it works on Bush.
dcl,
Social Security likewise hasn't been "raped and pillaged" so much as it has suffers from the very real design flaw of having only 2 workers per retiree when that ratio was approx. 16 to 1 at the program's inception in the 30's. That's something that needs to be fixed.
Oh, and it should be noted that I did not watch the speech. I was busy, and frankly do not care.
I mean, I know what he's going to say, and if he says anything new, its going to be analyzed to death in the blogosphere anyway. I'm a conservative, and don't need to hear Bush tell me what I already know.
Oh, and that last line about not cloning Abramoff was brilliant. :D Yeah, that would help. Why are we addressing this in the SOTU again?
If I'm ever president, I'm going to go back to mailing this thing in to Congress, like Jefferson did. Or maybe send the Veep to give it. We learn so little its irritating. (Again, I know Bush by now, both what I like and dislike. What new thing is he going to bring out by now?)
dcl (Dane?) -
I believe you are both right and wrong. SS is not broken, per se, but in the near future revenues will quit exceeding expenditures and thus will perpetually be in the red. Last I heard the accumulated reserves will be depleted in 2068 or so. This is not really anyone's fault, as changing demographics have made the current system simply unsustainable. (Thanks a lot Boomers!)
However, you are correct that revenues from the SS tax revenue are "borrowed" by the Feds and repayed at a dismal interest rate. This is because those funds go into the general revenues and are not kept separate from anything else.
The only possible ways to "fix" SS in its current form are: (1) reduce benefits; (2) raise taxes; or (3) increase retirement age. (Or of course some combination) Obviously, no politician with dreams of being re-elected would suggest such a thing, so instead we are left with ___________.
I give the Dems props, though, for having the decency to applaud when Bush mentioned the family of the soldier killed in Iraq. You just know they really would've rather had Sheehan up there in all her lunacy as the only legitimate spokesman for families of the fallen.
JAPAN/CHINA - Kids study their asses off.
US - Kids sit in front of tvs playing XBox 3, eating donuts, getting fat, and yelling at mom "You can't make me do my homework! The social worker said I could have you arrested!"
Or if you actually understood how education and testing worked in this country as opposed to Asian countries...
First of by the time you get to high school you have allready had a major selection process occur in both of those nations. In Japan for example you take a test to get into high school. The better you do the better high school you go to, well except that not everyone goes to high school. Those who score low often go into apprenticeships or other areas that focus on occupational training. So you are only testing the upper students anyway.
Here in the U.S. every student is tested, including those with learning disabilities.
And believe me the Japanese would love to buck their system, their society so entertwined with the national exam system (which is entirely focused on memorization not applied knowledge btw) that they can't change it without causing major shockwaves throughout the entire country.
Are there students who have problems in this country? Oh yeah, but maybe if we actually funded education instead of stupid unfunded mandates with misleading names that punish schools who need help we would be doing better.
Naw, most Dems avoid that lady like Stephen Colbert avoids bears.
The most telling part of the reaction to Bush's mention of Social Security was the Dems' almost jubilant howling that it hasn't been fixed
Are you really that dense? They were applauding the fact that they stood up to Bush's massively flawed plan to destroy Social Security.
See thats the problem with Bush and co. if you don't agree with their plan you obviously are against solving the problem. It never seems to cross his (or any of the neo-cons) mind that believing their solution is wrong doesn't mean you don't think there is a right solution.
Becky you ROCK
Sure David, we all know how Bush's plan to allow some workers to direct a miniscule percentage of their mandatory, government-run pensions into private funds will force seniors to exchange their checks for vouchers good at your local choke-and-puke run by Enron . . .(YAWN)
That's the problem with you and the Dems. If Bush proposed it, it MUST be bad, and no further analysis is needed.
Actually Joe Mama after Bush proposed his "plan" it was shot down by economist after economist as unfeasible. And the fact that a program which allready doesn't have enough money the way it is was going to have even LESS money going into it? How else was Bush going to keep paying benefits to current seniors like he promised? Hmm more deficit spending.
Well, first of all I have to say, you guys have got to be hammered just from "freedom" and "nucular." Second, let me just be candid and say I can't imagine ever being inspired by a Bush speech. Even when he says something I agree with, the way he says it tends to grind in my ears. But that's just me; really a matter of taste more than anything else. That said, this quote still drives me nuts: I went into this speech thinking that Bush was a bumbling dumbass and now, I feel he's doing a good job. Are you sure Mrs. Irish Trojan wasn't drunk? If not, then either the pre-speech opinion was wildly unconsidered, or the post-speech opinion is.
Social security. Sometimes I think it would be better to completely eliminate social security (along with the payroll tax) and replace it with a federal pension funded out of general revenue. Since that won't happen, the best course is to leave things as they are, and when necessary implement some combination of (1), (2), and (3) from BK's post. Of course, if you don't believe the government should be in the business of providing pensions, that the elderly should be allowed to sink or swim on their own savings or lack thereof, then the proper course is to eliminate social security and replace it with... nothing. The president's dog-man hybrid approach (um... am I mixing my issues?) never struck me as a very wise idea.
Cindy Sheehan. Blech!! The whole sorry mess makes both sides look bad, and I don't want to waste the mental energy trying to decide who I think comes off worse.
Not to be too hard on Becky, but how anyone could be moved to vote for Bush after one decent speech is beyond me.
Fact check
Healthcare Savings Accounts: tax shelters for the wealthy. Working class and poor people cannot save enough money to make it worth their while. Many people live paycheck to paycheck.
Making healthcare "affordable": See the President's solution above. Doesn't do Jack for the average American.
New Orleans: Okay, a major US city just got wiped off the map by a hurricane and Bush gives it SIX LINES.....WTF is that???
Keyword phrase from George Bush was "America is addicted to oil": No sh*t? Really? George, no way...Say it isn't true....Here's an oil man connected with ENRON, Harkin, Halliburton, et al, who's VP was having private meetings with energy officials. Yeah, Bush is REAL concerned about this problem...
Alternative energy: Good idea? Yes. Will Bush actually follow through on something like this? Yeah...suuuuure...uh huh.....2 years left in his Presidency and he's suddenly worried about alternative energy.
Gaaa...This guy is the quintessential lieing politician.
Great "fact check", Mouse. You remove any meaning from those words . . .
Nun Mouse, you might be a bit harsh:
After all, he did offer to study the Social Security issue last night.
About damn time a politician stepped up to the plate and studied social security.
He's what you call 'a leader'.
Joe Mama, your brain couldn't fact check a tin can for leaks.
The Snarky Commentator was not me but it was appreciated.
Jazz, the Bush Administration wants to cut back on SS. I mean what do you think the new conservatives are really about? They are against any program that involves the redistribution of wealth.
For Bush to talk about "studying" a problem is code language for "let's try to ease this in gently so it doesn't seem like were boning the people who need it."
Again with the references to "America must decrease its reliance on foreign oil." I've been saying this for years... STOP ALLOWING OIL TO BE USED FOR ENERGY PURPOSES!
We need to find a cheaper, more effective way of harnessing nuclear, solar, wind, water, etc. power. Reliance on fossil fuels (clean-burning or not) will damage the environment (some more than others) and are just not sustainable.
And don't get me started on No Child Left Behind. I felt that Kaine really dropped the ball last night. Instead of forcing the government to fund NCLB, Kaine should have spoken against the policy itself! There's nothing wrong with the theory ... But it makes teachers' and students' lives inside the classroom miserable.
"I give the Dems props, though, for having the decency to applaud when Bush mentioned the family of the soldier killed in Iraq. You just know they really would've rather had Sheehan up there in all her lunacy as the only legitimate spokesman for families of the fallen.
Joe Mama | 01.31.06 - 11:02 pm"
Wow, great post Joe, let's just parade more parents of fallen soldiers. More are mounting everyday. I can't beleive that you would stoop that low as to use that moment as an opportunity to dis the Dems. Wait ... yes I can. Grow up and recognize the tragedy that the Iraq war is today. Saddam's "trial" is a joke. Osama is still out there over 1600 days after 9/11. Casualties mount daily. Heck, even an ABC anchor gets more coverage than the troops that die. The partisanship on this thread is sickening.
"All the right people indeed" . . . the same is true for the hacks in here who whine the most about "partisanship":
"Brit Hume reported that the president was interrupted by applause 61 times last night. I prefer to judge a State of the Union by the non-applause, which can only be appreciated on TV. Think of Rep. John Lewis's refusal to stand up when the president talked about "our love of freedom." Or Harry Reid's tactless
decision to remain seated during the acknowledgement of Roberts and Alito. Or Charles Rangel's hand-sitting act when Bush declared that the U.S. will never surrender to evil. Who couldn't enjoy watching the entire Democratic side of the room lock their keisters in place when the words "Patriot Act" or "tax cuts" were mentioned. Or the sphinx-like stare of some unnamed diplomat in Arab headdress when Bush talked about the "unstable" nations of the Middle East. Then there was the tempest-tossed visage and contorted smile of Kathleen Blanco,
Louisiana's dysfunctional governor, when Bush riffed on Katrina. Hillary Clinton retained her trademark humorlessness when her husband's name was the punch line of the speech's one genuine joke. And, of course, there were all those idiotic grimaces on Democratic faces when they applauded the failure to reform Social
Security. For all these reasons, the SOU has to be considered a success. Even at his most conciliatory, Bush continues to annoy all the right people."
Mama, huh? you make no sense, and you don't seem to understand a. politics and b. what Bush was actually saying.
Even at his most conciliatory, Bush continues to annoy all the right people.
So its a good thing for the President to be actively annoying half the country? A President elected on a razor thin margin who promised to be a uniter and not a divider is a success because he is basically flipping the finger to half the country?
Yeah. Bush gave a great speech last year, too. Too bad he didn't do anything that he said he would. Didn't he say something about healthcare reform five years ago? The guy says one thing and does another. If people can't see that after five years, I don't know what to tell ya.
" the Bush Administration wants to cut back on SS. I mean what do you think the new conservatives are really about? They are against any program that involves the redistribution of wealth."
A Nun Mouse, this has got to be the most idiotic thing I've read on the history of a blog from someone who actually seems to be coherent most of the time. Are you kidding me? Social security robs money from the working class who needs it the most and gives it to people who have no need for it. George Bush earned more than $800,000 on his investments alone in a previous tax year and this year, he collects a SS check. Money is taken out of my paycheck, out of the paycheck of the cashier at your grocery store, to pay for George's check and he doesn't need one. SS does not redistribute wealth in any way, shape or form and you would truly have to be delusional to think such a thing.
Secondly, Dane, you are smoking crack. Everyone with a brain can see that SS is a massive train wreck waiting to happen and while you're content to say, "uh, there's no problem, really" and wait for a disaster to happen, I'm very happy that some people aren't. So Bush's plan, which had both merits and detriments, didn't work. I applaud the man for saying, you schmucks didn't pass my plan, so fine, you come up with a fucking plan together and make it work. That's exactly what he should do and I have at least a flicker of hope that the commission might come up with something.
A Nun Mouse, your comments on Health Savings Accounts are equally as inane as your musings on SS. HSAs actually are a legitimate alternative to health insurance for people who are willing to set aside the money to start one. People who don't prioritize having health insurance will never have it unless the country universalizes health care. I'd like to see that happen, but since no party is actively advocating that, clearly this is not an issue to change party affiliations over quite yet. Money put into HSAs is tax deductible up to $3,000...I think. Honestly, for the super rich, that's not piss in the toilet. But for someone who makes $30,000 a year, it's something to be able to give the gov't less money and get health insurance out of it. I don't understand how that's not an appealing system. It's not perfect, by any means, but at least it's something.
And Aaron, I was not drunk. Believe it or not, intelligent people can consider George Bush competent, inspiring and a good leader without being drunk. Imagine that. *glare* Before this speech, I was wondering what the hell we were doing in Iraq and Bush really put that in perspective when he created his little timeline of Iraq under dictator-->US taking over-->establishment of an interim gov't--->creation of a Constitution--->free elections. Wow. I mean, we certainly didn't do it that quickly around here. We kicked the British out in 1776 and it was 1789 before we really got around to establishing a legitimate Constitution. Iraq has been making astounding progress in terms of establishing a new government and I hadn't really looked at it like that before.
Bush also addressed issues that I care about a lot that I haven't heard any Democrats talking about...things like the Guest Worker Program, which he's been advocating since before 9/11, the doubling of federal grants to physical sciences research (which, if it happens, would be extraordinary), an actual plan for how to reduce dependence on Middle Eastern Oil (thrilled about GB putting this on the agenda), and a serious need to smack Iran in the face about the nukes (nice to see him pick up the ball on this one because Britain, France and Germany are handling it about as well as they handled Bosnia).
Say what you want about No Child Left Behind (and I certainly don't think it's a brilliant program) but kids' test scores have improved.
Say what you want about the burgeoning deficit, but fact of the matter is that when Bush took office, the economy was in the shitter and now, it's humming along. It's a classic move to spend when you don't have money to stimulate the economy. To boot, Bush even talked about cutting bogus programs and pork spending to help cut the deficit in half within 10 years. I honestly didn't even know if Bush realized the deficit was a problem until last night and not only did he point it out, but he pointed out a solution far more practical than, "there's a better way."
And seriously, what is wrong with the Democrats? They have 1,000 celebrities stumbling over themselves to worship the ground the donkeys walk on and the Dems couldn't pull one of them to read the rebuttal speech? I mean, last year, it was the possessed Nancy Pelosi and this year, we have Killer Eyebrow Man. Why not just have Terri Schiavo read the damn speech? It's horrible.
I have no problem with means testing for SS.
As for my comments on HSAs being "inane," please explain how a family or a person who already live pay check to paycheck is going to be able to save ANY money for their own healthcare? Also, a follow up, explain how these savings accounts are going to make healthcare mre affordable...
The only people who will use them are the wealthy who can use them as tax shelters.
Inane my ass
Becky, I'm sorry but, umm, your the one that is apparently smoking crack... or something...
Plus, once again Bush linked Iraq with 9/11 in his speech: "On September the 11th, 2001, we found that problems originating in a failed and oppressive state 7,000 miles away could bring murder and destruction to our country."
I mean he's right that some of the hijackers came from the Middle East, namely 17 out of the 19 came from Saudi Arabia. But his ambiguous phrasing leaves little doubt he's allowing people to draw their own connections: 9/11 and Iraq. He says it without saying it explicitly.
Where's the "liberal media" to call him on it?
Yeah, it was like a totally awesome speech. I was moved deep in my bowels.
Mendacious Mouse - I applaud your courage in admitting publicly that the President for whom you have *no* respect managed to move your very essence !
Health Savings Accounts - very true that those who don't have two Lincolns to rub together can't use 'em ... but a whole bunch of us who aren't super rich like Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, Feinstein, Gore, Edwards, Clinton, etc will be able to take some of our income that used to be taxable and shelter it to be used to help pay for out-of-pocket health expenses ... for those listed, yup, it's chump change ... $3,000 is a good part of the tuition for one of my kids, so I'm happy to see this being put in place ...
Mendacious Mouse
Who?
Becky, I didn't mean to offend with the "sure she isn't drunk" quip. My apologies.
You write:
intelligent people can consider George Bush competent, inspiring and a good leader without being drunk. Imagine that.
I have no trouble at all imagining that. I do have trouble imagining thinking Bush was a "bumbling dumbass," and then an hour later, after one political speech, thinking he was "inspiring and a good leader." However good you think the speech was, doesn't that fast a change gives new meaning to the words "swing voter."? I'm not calling you a liar or a moron or anything like it. I'll take you at your word that the speech really did have that profound an effect on you. It jsut seems a little bizarre to me.
Speaking of calling people a moron...
Everyone with a brain can see that SS is a massive train wreck waiting to happen...
Except it's not, and since I have a brain, I wonder what to make of your comment. In due course, social security will be "fixed" through a combination of means testing (my favorite), raising the retirement age, decreasing benefits, and raising taxes. No, it won't be as beneficial to retirees as it is now. That's inevitable given the ever decreasing ratio of workers to retirees. But there will never come a time when SS checks just stop showing up, unless SS is eliminated. And only the R's have any constituency for that move.
People who don't prioritize having health insurance will never have it unless the country universalizes health care. I'd like to see that happen, but since no party is actively advocating that, clearly this is not an issue to change party affiliations over quite yet
Plenty of Dems would like to advocate this, but are reluctant to do so because of political considerations. (Recall the disaster that was HilaryCare.) So if you'd like to see it happen you should let them know. (and mabey even vote for them?) HSA's are pretty nifty, but as you seem to concede, they are of little use to poor people who get sick.
Again, I apologize for the "drunk" bit. And I definitely appreciate someone I disagree with who has an open mind. It's much better than someone I agree with who has a closed mind. I'd hate to get lumped in with them ;)
I think David is wondering which rodent here is truly the mendcious one...
At least, Alasdair admits the HSA are never, ever, ever going to be used for their intended purpose and that Bush is lieing about it.
Well Alasdair keeps talking to Mendacious Mouse, I figure he must just be talking to his imaginary friend again. :-)
well, he is a Republican Q.E.D. insane.
Becky,
Though I see many things differently from your recent long post here, I thought it might be timely to add:
I SINCERELY hope that you are right and I am wrong.
At the end of the day, I hope most critics of the President would agree with me that we criticize his policies, not because we have an axe to grind or wish him ill, but rather
BECAUSE WE WANT OUR COUNTRY TO WIN.
Right?
Well struck, Becky. You, too, seem to annoy all the right people :-)
David, enough. We all know you dislike Alasdair, and that this is at least partially because he's often an ass, but questioning who he's referring to with the Mendacious Mouse lines is ridiculous. It's entirely clear that he's referring to A Nun Mouse. If she has problems with that phrasing, she can tell him to stop, but that's really not your job. (Incidentally, I'm also aware that it's not my job to protect Alasdair, but I'm not actually trying to protect him. I'm stating this merely because I'm sick of unreasonable complaints. There are plenty of reasonable things to pick on Aladair for, and if you simply feel it's insulting to refer to people by other than their chosen handle, just come out and say that, rather than playing dumb.) Engaging in inane jabbing at Alasdair really reduces the weight of your complaints against him doing the same thing to others.
And Dane, I find comments like your last one are at least as bad as any of the offal that spews from the mouth of Bill O'Reilly. I'm betting you think it's funny, but comments like that are part of what lead to ideological echo chambers, and the abominations those produce on either side of the spectrum. At least one of your friends from USC (and no, it's not me) is a Republican who basically never talked politics with you because you made snarky comments like that on a regular basis. Too often, people mistake silence for assent, and those who disagree with you are more likely to remain silent if you continue such expressions.
Then again, why would anyone want to actually debate policies and positions and try to understand the other side's rationale, when one could instead snipe and dismiss from the safety of cyberspace?
Mike, I have tried the civil discussion route with Alasdair and he refuses to participate. The reason I bring up the Mouse thing is because its a great example of that. If he wants to debate fine, but the continous harping on mispellings and use of deragotary name references doesn't help that at all. Frankly I'm sick of it and I think its time someone said something about it. He does this not only to Nun Mouse but to me and others as well. Perhaps if you spent your time telling him to stop being an ass about things and try and actually engage in civil debate instead of criticizng me for bringing up his continous name abuse only two times it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
I won't bring up anything that hasn't been discussed before, so I'll say this. Re: Bush's idea of a Blue Panel study of SS. All I have to say is, what good will it do? This president has a proven track record of ignoring panals' recommendations. This does not inspire anyone, I don't think, in Congress to take this idea seriously.
A Nun Mouse, no one actually said that HSAs were going to miraculously solve the nation's healthcare problems. Clearly, that's going to take massive bipartisan efforts and people willing to take on billion dollar conglomerates and HMOs. HSAs are all about providing an option for the ever-increasing number of people whose companies have stopped offering health care because it's too expensive to do so and maintain a reasonable profit margain (GM is a great example of this). For families who truly live paycheck to paycheck, that's what medicaid and medicare are for and as much as I'd like to complain about it, people do get access to physicians and necessary medical care. There's a point at which Bush's credo that personal responsibility is paramount to happiness and fulfillment becomes applicable and in families with piss poor financial management, at this point in time, it's their own fault for not having health care. Moreover, and I know this because I've done it, hospitals, physicians and drug companies will all offer services at a lower cost if you can demonstrate that you're clearly in need of aid. If you're the head of a family of three making $50,000/year and you still can't buy health insurance, I'm not sure that you have the right to whine about it.
That being said, I personally believe that while HSAs do serve their purpose, everyone should have access to reasonable health care without having to freak out about it or its cost. If nothing else, I firmly believe that we need to universalize health care for people 18 and under because when push comes to shove, it's not a kid's fault that their parents are dumbasses with money and live paycheck to paycheck, thereby not providing health care for the kids.
But think on that personal responsibility bit. At what point do we shut the fuck up and admit that it's our own damn fault that we don't have certain amenities? Where does the government stop and personal responsibility begin?
David, my problem isn't with you bringing up the issue of the names. My problem is with the method. When you tell him that you don't think he's funny, or that you don't like his references to the d-list, fine. You've done that often enough, and I've not criticized you for it when you just come out and say what you think. But playing games pretending that you don't know who he's talking about when it's perfectly clear strikes me as you trying to be clever in a way pretty analogous to how Alasdair's puns and whatnot are him trying to be clever. Both strike me as annoying, and I just recently stated that I don't find him as funny as he seems to think he is, but I'm inherently more likely to call someone I know on a behavior pattern than someone who I've never met. And lately--particularly since Andrew's been sparse in the comments--that most often means you and Dane.
Becky - if we weren't both already married, I'd be considering proposing ... !
Mike - since they are from a source I can respect, I have to give your words due consideration ... I'm not going to cut back on the puns, significantly, but I will undertake to accept the one-liners that the D-list hand out less often and less obviously gleefully ...
Back to the SOTU ... Ob/Gyns and malpractice lawsuit reform - from the President's lips to any and all ears of any and all Deity and/or Deities !
Becky, you are a blind partisan idiot. The economy was in the shitter when Bush took office? Are you kidding me? We had a surplus under Clinton, and since Bush took office and 9/11 (Bush's excuse for being one of the worst Presidents in history, and everything else that is wrong with America). So, where's your evidence of a vibrant economy under Bush? Wow, you need to stop drinking and smoking.
You ARE a well informed one aren't you, Geez. Did you know the Super Bowl is this weekend?
Right... Becky, who voted for Kerry in 2004 and made clear in her posts that she came into last night's speech thinking very little of Bush, is a "blind partisan idiot." Good logic there. "Hmm, she disagrees with me, so she must be a partisan idiot!"
The stock market bubble burst in mid-2000. It was only a matter of time before the rest of the economy followed, and the signs that it was about to tank were definitely there when Bush took office. It hadn't tanked yet, but it was on the verge. So while Becky's statement may not be entirely clear or accurate, your impression of things is equally warped, if not moreso.
Also, the state of the federal budget is quite a different issue from the state of the economy, so talking about the budget surplus is a bit of a non-sequitur. Roosevelt brought us back from the Great Depression with deficit spending, and Bush has done much the same (though not as dramatically of course) since the recession of his first couple of years. Now, I'm not saying that the deficit isn't a problem -- it is -- but I just think you need to recognize that the budget and the economy are not the same thing, and if you're going to go around calling other people intoxicated idiots, you shouldn't try to prove your own points by citing irrelevant evidence. Otherwise people might begin to think that you're the idiot... and that would be a true tragedy.
P.S. And while you may be right that Bush uses 9/11 as an excuse too often for too many things, there is no denying that 9/11 had a profound negative effect on both the economy and the federal budget. Only a "blind partisan idiot" would ignore that effect, and judge Bush's economic and budgetary record without factoring in the effects of 9/11. Now, reasonable people can disagree about how much of our economic and budgetary woes can be attributed to 9/11, but no reasonable person would simply dismiss Bush's argument out of hand.
At least, Alasdair admits the HSA are never, ever, ever going to be used for their intended purpose and that Bush is lieing about it.
That evil Bush is a liar, liar LIAR!!! Is that all you can say?? Between you and dcl, it's pretty obvious why the left continues to lose elections. People simply get tired of hearing your tired, old rhetoric.
David: If the Mouse opens her mouth (or keyboard) and spouts idiotic nonsense, then she is fair game for ridicule.
David: If the Mouse opens her mouth (or keyboard) and spouts idiotic nonsense, then she is fair game for ridicule.
Idiotic nonesense according to who? I see idiotic nonesense coming out of certain commentators on the right as well, but that doesn't mean ridicule is the appropriate response. If what Mouse is saying is so idiotic than attack the arguments. Childish name calling seems to imply that thats all you've got.
Idiotic nonesense according to whom?
we all know that the real reason we are behind the Japanese/Chinese is because
JAPAN/CHINA - Kids study their asses off
And maybe American students would excell in science if we actually teach it to them, instead of the creating controversies and advocating the teaching of said false controversies. School boards in Kansas and Pennsylvenia should be more worried about the students' achievements than whether or not God created the Universe in 7 days, uh, six ... he took the 7th day off.
Idiotic nonsense according to whom?
becky,
Riiiight....
So now, thanks to you, I suddenly realize that the high cost of healthcare is really MY fault....Corporations reducing benefits or dropping them completely, costs going through the roof, etc., and that's all MY fault....
Uh huh...right.
People living pay check to pay check can't get on Medicare/Medicaid. Medicaid isn't some kind of all inclusive program for the working poor, i.e. people living paycheck to paycheck. By the way, you can live paycheck to paycheck and still not be poor.
There are literally MILLIONS of people who make too much money to be on Medicaid. Yet they cannot afford healthcare.
Thank you for pointing out that it's their fault.
"Whom" is used by people who support the butt plug industry.
In record time, the Bush Administration has retracted a promise or stated goal it made only one day earlier through it's frontman:
Let the word parsing begin by those on the right side of the isle.....
"Administration backs off Bush's vow to reduce Mideast oil imports"
By Kevin G. Hall
Knight Ridder Newspapers
http://www.realcities.com/mld/kr...on/
13767738.htm
WASHINGTON - One day after President Bush vowed to reduce America's dependence on Middle East oil by cutting imports from there 75 percent by 2025, his energy secretary and national economic adviser said Wednesday that the president didn't mean it literally.
What the president meant, they said in a conference call with reporters, was that alternative fuels could displace an amount of oil imports equivalent to most of what America is expected to import from the Middle East in 2025.
But America still would import oil from the Middle East, because that's where the greatest oil supplies are.
The president's State of the Union reference to Mideast oil made headlines nationwide Wednesday because of his assertion that "America is addicted to oil" and his call to "break this addiction."
Bush vowed to fund research into better batteries for hybrid vehicles and more production of the alternative fuel ethanol, setting a lofty goal of replacing "more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025."
He pledged to "move beyond a petroleum-based economy and make our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past."
"His energy secretary and national economic adviser said Wednesday that the president didn't mean it (reducing reliance on Mideast Oil) literally"
What better words can be found to describe this 'Adminstratively-Challenged' Administration...
Jazz -
Wait a second,
["America is addicted to oil" and his call to "break this addiction."
Bush vowed to fund research into better batteries for hybrid vehicles and more production of the alternative fuel ethanol, setting a lofty goal of replacing "more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025."]
That all sounds to me like it IS directly trying to break our addiction with oil and reduce dependency on Middle East Oil. While I would prefer a more immediate solution, do you and the above poster really think we were just going to cut oil imports in half with no means to supplant it? Do you guys LIKE $5 a gallon gas?
I don't like $5 a gallon gas personally, which why it bothered me to learn that oil companies are looking at slowing refinery production in the coming months to boost profits. Thats right, after record profits this past year the oil companies feel the need to lower supply and raise prices in order to make even more money. Proof yet again that an unrestrained free market doesn't work.
David -
Don't tell me. In NC, we have the floating gas tax, one of the stupidest ideas of all time.
Still, it seems silly for some to criticize that he's not cutting oil imports now, especially after no new refineries built and no drilling in ANWAR. What exactly do they think they are going to fill their Geo Metros with when they putt around town?
Did anyone notice that Bush asked for a line item veto from Congress? Has something changed, cause I thought the line item veto was unconstitutional?
Since when has violating the Constitution ever bothered Bush?
He was asking for a constitutional amendment, numbskull.
Thats right, after record profits this past year the oil companies feel the need to lower supply and raise prices in order to make even more money. Proof yet again that an unrestrained free market doesn't work.
More numbskullery. Which is more: 10% margins on $1 billion, or 10% margins on $10 billion? When the base cost of oil goes up ($70/barrel, over which gas companies have no control over), the revenues and profits will skyrocket as well. Boeing made almost as good profit margins in the defense sector this past year as Exxon did in the oil industry. Is Boeing your next target as an example of the "unrestrained free market" failing? All you're proving here is that you know nothing about the free market or economics.
Additionally, Exxon et al aren't stupid. Some of the profits get returned to shareholders--as they rightfully should, that's how capital works--but much of that windfall is going to go to research and capital investments, so that these companies can ensure future supplies to remain competitive and profitable. In addition, the high prices force American consumers to make more energy-efficient decisions, which (hopefully) will lead to better long-run consumption habits (such as buying Priuses instead of Hummers). As companies like Exxon drop their dollars into building new pipelines, bigger and more efficient refineries, and finding new energy sources, we secure the future of our energy with long-term planning.
The other solution to this is to artificially hold down prices with price controls, and you know what that leads to? Long gas lines like in the 1970s and inflation. We've tried your suggestion of "controlled" markets, David, and it backfired--big time.
As far as HSAs go, they are a great idea, but it's a two-step process. Tax credit-based HSAs are perfect for doctor visits and prescription drugs, but we still need some sort of universal insurance for hospital visits and emergencies, whether that is funded through taxpayer money or via private insurance premiums. Either way though, neither system is sustainable in an environment where illegal immigrants can flood across the border and overwhelm hospitals and emergency rooms, who must provide healthcare for free by law.
As for the speech, it was "eh". SOTU addresses are usually "eh". There have been only a couple memorable ones in my lifetime, really, when Clinton declared the era of big government to be over, and Bush after 9/11.
But Kaine was even worse. Man, the Dems are so unoriginal and cliched, I could've given a better Dem vision than what he discussed. I started ignoring him halfway through and began thinking how much more interesting it'd be to listen to Villaraigosa's Spanish response instead.
I am pleased that members of Congress are working on earmark reform, because the federal budget has too many special interest projects. (Applause.) And we can tackle this problem together, if you pass the line-item veto. (Applause.)
I see nothing here that suggests he was talking about an amendment rather than a bill.
Maybe you should pay attention to politics instead of pretending to know what Bush was referring to.
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