Steve: THANK YOU!!
Yes, thanks. Nice intro too.
Sparrow | 02.15.08 - 6:53 pm |
"Meaning not concluding the same as Mignini? This is getting really messy".
Non conclusive because he is not offering definite answers to questions such as precise time of death,if she did or didn't have sex before being murdered etc.This is what the paper says.
Non conclusive because he is not offering definite answers to questions such as precise time of death,if she did or didn't have sex before being murdered etc.This is what the paper says.
nicki | 02.15.08 - 7:16 pm | #
Yes, thanks Nicki. I wasn't wondering about what the paper said, but what they didn't say. I was trying to read between the lines.
Steve,
Thank you so very much for all of your efforts to help us in our quest to determine what happened to Meredith Kercher.
Sparrow,
I have not read the exact filing of the pathologist Dr. Lalli. From what I did read, it appears to me that Meredith had not been raped. However, I am not of the opinion that she was just going to share herself with anyone other than maybe her new boyfriend. There is no doubt in my mind that Meredith Kercher lost her life because she was not willing to participate in something, because afterall, RG's DNA is in and on her body. And she lost her life and was found semi-naked. Now it can be argued that this was part of the cover up, but still, she lost her life because she did not wish to participate in something, and based on the crime scene evidence, it was about sex. So in reality, although she may not have been physically raped, there still was a definite intent on the part of the people involved.
nicki,
Is this correct (from the article)?:
Miriano (chief prosecutor of Perugia?) said that according to Mignini the decision was warranted, but Miriano declined to go into detail, and neither Maginini nor Lalli wished to comment.
bpcl
I agree
lack of signs of force are no proof of rape not having taken place or sexual force by other means like having the knife at your throat.
Different article: they say Mignini was very irritated by Lalli speaking to the press before submitting the autopsy report. It is also mentioned that Mignini boss is supporting the decision. As to hinting that Lalli has been fired because his conclusions don't support prosecution hypothesis, I am not sure, Mignini is described as a "professional that has always been reluctant to release information during his investigations".
http://notizie.alice.it/notizie/...42.html?
pmk=rss
Thank you Steve. This page loads in a flash! I used to be able to make a cup of tea while the other one loaded 
Mr Huff -
Thank you for once again guesting us a new blog section...I hope this one is even better then the last
However, I am not of the opinion that she was just going to share herself with anyone other than maybe her new boyfriend.---bpcl
I am not of that opinion either. But I firmly believe she was not raped.
Well, they are under strict orders not to release anything to the press. It sounds like the Medical Examiner violated this order. This is what I think has people upset over there.
Goof
soozie UK
aha
me too, I vacuumed, did the washing, took the cat for a walk
As to hinting that Lalli has been fired because his conclusions don't support prosecution hypothesis, I am not sure, Mignini is described as a "professional that has always been reluctant to release information during his investigations".
http://notizie.alice.it/notizie/...izie/
...42.html? pmk=rss
nicki | 02.15.08 - 7:40 pm | #
I wasn't hinting. It was conjecture. I was really asking for the thoughts of others on this possibility. So, thank you.
bpcl -
"However, I am not of the opinion that she was just going to share herself with anyone other than maybe her new boyfriend. There is no doubt in my mind that Meredith Kercher lost her life because she was not willing to participate in something, because afterall, RG's DNA is in and on her body. And she lost her life and was found semi-naked."
It maybe that it was sexual assault heading towards rape...but the rape itself (as in penetration) was never facilitated due to some reason or occurance we are unaware of...;or it may be one of the things already speculated...such as Meredith freaking out causing the assailant/s to change their action.
At the same time...perhaps Guede himself gives us a clue. In his testimony he said full sex with Meredith did not transpire because he didn't have a condom...if this is actually true it's even more important if he doesn't have a condomn...he'd leave DNA evidence of the rape...perhaps he realised this at the time and held off penile penetration. 'If' this is actually the case it would be important...as Guede's lack of having a condom would infer there was no pre-meditation.
Nicki, has anyone else gotten into trouble over leaks in this case? Because it seems there've been a lot of leaks that have nothing to do with Lalli, but I haven't heard of anyone else getting into trouble for it.
Michael (UK)
Nice show of support for Skep. I too had to watch that fan club and chief mousecateer chew on Skep for making an assumption about a wild goose chase. I too have been banned from the site and was powerless to defend, she is somewhat wrong though as the web site still allows me to do the PI cross-word puzzle.
My new beef is that in her back handed aknowlegment that she was wrong she still states that the mix up and witch hunt was worth it if it quiets down her worse critic on the other blog, meaning this one.
Alot of you all should be offended that she has omitted you from having scathing critisim of her site. She should know the general feeling of distast for her fan site over here and stay away. I for one will stay away from the fan club site. It is just too awful to watch that train wreck every day.
You guys crack me up.....you are such good deducting sherlock holmes' types that you couldn't even realize you were chatting with Amanda's Step Father earlier this week!
goofing off!
Michael(UK)
Based on these confluence of events: RG being invited to the cottage by AK without Meredith knowing
(Meredith never said to her friends that she was going to meet with anyone and she left both AK and RS without saying where she was going implies to me that she had no way of knowing anyone would be at the cottage)
(Also, AK was the only one who had a key to the cottage and RG lied when he said he went there with Meredith at 8:38 pm because we know she did not arrive back before 9:00 pm)
The crime scene evidence
(DNA of RS on the Meredith's brassiere
and possible shoe print and AK's DNA on the knife(transferred from RS flat
We do not know if Meredith told either RS or AK when she was coming back that night or not, but both their cell phones turned of simultaneously at around 8:45 to 9:00 pm)
You do not think a case can be made for possible premeditation?
Goofy,
A young woman was brutally murdered, left to die a painful death. At the very least, the people who come here are searching for the truth. They have for the most part, been cordial with anyone who comes here. I have heard the expression, a drowning man will grasp at straws. What is wrong with that I ask?
Nothing wrong with grasping at straws....
goofy
they were talking to someone claiming to be her stepfather who provided information which anyone could google and included a four hour old news story on the medical report as if he predicted it...also the person was far too desperate to be believed...this forum is way too small to be worth the risk of damaging his step-daughters case...and then of course there is his trusty co-worker Akbar....gimme a break. Why would he....you think he is bored?
I'm so glad Goofy's still here. He's really helping Amanda's "father."
why would you not want to believe it?
Amanda's father is Curt.....I don't know him personally.
Goofy,
Tell me, why do you come here if it bothers you so much that people grasp at straws.
Amanda's father is Curt.....I don't know him personally.
goofy | 02.15.08 - 8:21 pm | #
I know who Amanda's real father is. You missed the quotation marks.
Sparrow | 02.15.08 - 7:57 pm |
"Nicki, has anyone else gotten into trouble over leaks in this case?"
Not yet, but more trouble might be coming...The Chief prosecutor was very clear in TV a while ago.
"Nicki, has anyone else gotten into trouble over leaks in this case?"
Not yet, but more trouble might be coming...The Chief prosecutor was very clear in TV a while ago.
nicki | 02.15.08 - 8:22 pm | #
Thanks Nicki. I always appreciate your knowledge and insight, here and elsewhere.
Bcpl, goofy's just having fun. He's playing with us because he has nothing better to do, and he can't operate on our level and win. He has to be sneaky and mocking.
thanks Sparrow
I don't know. Maybe I misremember everything
goofy,
Yeah, right...you win...
Michael and FOP,
Thanks for your words of support and that is all I will say on the matter. "Best leave it," as somebody says in Spinal Tap about the death of drummer Stumpy Joe. I don't know how it's being spun right now and frankly do not give a toss, except I hope the accusation is dropped. It may have been leveled at me to silence all the other meanies who are at war. Anyway, wasn't me.
We're here because we want to understand something and agree that free inquiry, give and take, and self-governance are the best way to get there. There are other paths, but I don't really like them much.
goofy,
Please. What you say is not true. Some people here, most of us in fact, knew precisely who we were interacting with. I'm sorry that he left with a bunch of questions pending and hope he plans to come back. Otherwise, it might look like his reaching out to us was a ploy of some sort, related to the release of the former coroner's report.
Sparrow,
For a moment, yesterday I thought I was dealing with some intelligence, but that statement,
You guys crack me up.....you are such good deducting sherlock holmes' types that you couldn't even realize you were chatting with Amanda's Step Father earlier this week!
made me realize, that nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you
All,
Have you heard the joke about why Mickey Mouse wanted to divorce Minnie?
Because she was xxxxing goofy!
But Skep, Mickey was wrong. Goofy doesn't get any.
"I don't know. Maybe I misremember everything."
Is that your best version of the truth goofy?
My, you are xxxxing goofy!
Sparrow,
Apparently! That's why he's so goofy.
"Hey, goofy.
Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here."
Or start making some sense.
Glad you can see it now bpcl. It was hard watching you get tossed about. But you haven't lost anything. You were just being earnest and nice.
"Apparently! That's why he's so goofy."
I think it's the other way around, actually.
Sparrow,
I thank you. really. Nothing will deter this march for justice for Meredith Kercher and her family.
Someone comes on your blog with says he is CMellas....and then you guys try to pick it apart. He has been reading 3 major blogs for a couple of months now. He probably has even popped off at a few of you during that time. He chose your blog because he thought people here were interested about the case.
I think he just wanted to be able to speak for himself and his family so you guys wouldn't....but no....as you little rascals might have it, you decided to question everything and anything about him and his family and the case while you continued to believe he was an "imposter" for his PR engine....
None of you apparently have any faith.
Yeah, I could just make up the following from his email about posting on your precious blog....but this is what I got back on Feb 12.
From: Chris Mellas
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:02 AM
To: I BLANK OUT MY NAME HERE
Subject: I went and did it
I posted on truecrime haloscan as myself.
Check out the post and let me know what you think.
Think what you want....you all miss an opportunity to have dialog with him but in turn you play your games...good for you...
No such thing as Truecrime Haloscan and he would know that. He is a computer guy. Only people that are not aware that Haloscan is just commenting software and is part of many blogs would think that it would be part of the name of a site. This is the truecrimeweblog.
goofy,
Once again, you have it pretty much all wrong.
Chris Mellas had fruitful exchanges with many people. But we are not a homogenous blob. Some people wondered who he really was, some wondered why he would want to post here, and some wondered whether he should under the circumstances. If he came to convince everyone of something, he failed because we don't all think alike. He's welcome back any time. You're welcome here too, but I for one wonder why you are here. What do you have to offer?
SB,
Why bother! There is nothing there.
Just jumping in randomly here for a moment to note: DAMN, you people are fast. Thanks for moving with such alacrity, everyone.
Please keep it civil.
Goofy, a good number of us believe we were conversing with CMellas. A few people didn't believe it, and some reserved the right to remain skeptical, which is not a bad thing.
Personally I believed he was who he said he was. And in view of that belief, let me reiterate with different quotation marks, I'm really glad you're here. You're really "helping" CMellas. If I were him, I wouldn't buy you a coffee, and I'd do more than just hit you on the head.
Sorry if I offended, Steve.
No one person offended, Sparrow. You all generally keep it close to civil here, but I did want to make it a point to throw that reminder out there, since it is very easy to be contentious in a discussion like this.
"Guede" in voudou (a religion born of African and French cultures) refers to the spirits of the dead/fertility who rule death, cemeteries and the grave, in particular Baron Samedi, his wife Mama Brigitte, and their children Nibo, Ti Malis, and Plumaj. Guede are frequently represented by phallic symbols and noted for disruption, obscenity, debauchery, and having a particular fondness for tobacco and rum
I think goofy is cmellas alter-ego
Steve,
We love you!!!!!!! That is why we are fast!
Chris I think came here because you have to understand for 3 months now he has heard nothing but negative/mis-information about his daughter, family and anyone else the press was able to get their hands on. They have been cruel to say the least.
So why not defend his family and even his daughter. He has not received or seen anything that would even at the slightest make him think that his daughter has committed this hanous crime or was involved. Again, you know he has information about the case that only the defense and prosecution may have knowledge of....so please, give him the benefit of the doubt...if you can.....or not...up to you.
Even if he can't get into the details of the crime and investigative information, he still is an excellent resource. He could at least explain to you what is reported incorrectly or correctly.
The timing of the medical reports made it look bad I suppose but those were not due until April so he had no idea that they were going to be released so soon. For goodness sake, they have moved pretty slow and dilerberate with their investigation so why would it all of a sudden change...he was surprised at the early release (I think Mignini was too).
Look, believe what you want. Most have already made up their minds and maybe that is why he has not come back.
Again, as it has been stated....there are details about the case that can't be exposed to the media in any form...including here....I guess because he is such a nice guy he just felt compelled to say something. Maybe he got some things off his chest at your expense.....who knows. I only hope that when many of you learn what many of us already know, you will be kind enough to return to him and give him your kind regards.
I hear it coming....what about......go ahead...I will fill it in later...
I'll wait for Godot. Thanks though.
My God Anonymous.....haolscan.com/comments/trucimeweblog/
3206507372815935682/?a=
You are so fricking picky .... you got the jist of the email quote...you knew what he was talking about...
Oh, my reply to him was...
What is Haloscan?
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Mellas
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:02 AM
To: HID MY NAME
Subject: I went and did it
I posted on truecrime haloscan as myself.
Check out the post and let me know what you think.
-Chris Mellas
Then I replied to him...
Wow....people there were so civil towards you....
I think your post brought back some of the humanity that has been lacking.
I think maybe I was wrong..
Look, believe what you want. Most have already made up their minds and maybe that is why he has not come back.---Goofy
Why do you continue to totally ignore the fact that many here believe he was who he said he was, and that several did have fruitful exchanges with him? It is evident if you read what was written, and several people have mentioned it directly to you.
Certainly there were some who were contentious, and/or unbelieving, but that's what we all get when we are operating on the internet, and in this case the issue is very important no matter what side you are on. And speaking of sides, this discussion group is made up of many people with many different opinions of what may have happened. Why do you continue to speak as if we are one entity with one opinion? CMellas was and is VERY welcome here. But as I wrote in another post, it must be a very difficult thing for him to do. It's possible that the friendly people here could not make up for the others. But the others have a right to speak, and although most welcome any words we can get from CMellas, we have to each decide for ourselves how we accept or don't accept them. He has an obvious angle of interest in this case. We should not be expected to forget that.
Sparrow,
I concur.....
Wow....people there were so civil towards you....
I think your post brought back some of the humanity that has been lacking.
I think maybe I was wrong..
goofy | 02.15.08 - 9:14 pm |
No you weren't wrong.
You got some hostility yourself because you were disresectful and mocking.
He was not. This is a much more civil place than any I have seen that discusses this subject.
I think the point that becomes at issue for us Sparrow is that when we make a comment in defense of Amanda or Rafael, we get lashed out and then it doesn't stop there...people then continue to lash out at us personally (us meaning anyone who might have a valid point). I read John T try to lecture Chris about his family and all that age crap. Who is John T to make such remarks about someone who doesn't know Chris? Chris can defend himself yes....but then I sit here and watch how quiet people are when they know what is said is out of line....so maybe that is why I am here myself....to just be part of the "game" so to speak.....
Giuliano Mignini, the chief investigator, has re-interviewed British friends of Ms Kercher who, like her, were on an Erasmus EU exchange programme in Italy and who have returned since the crime to complete their studies. Reports said that they had confirmed their earlier testimony, in which they said that Ms Knox appeared "proud" to have discovered Ms Kercher's body and had given details of the crime scene that only someone who had either witnessed the crime or committed it could possibly have known.
John T _
"About wounds.
I never knew, but I heard a few years back how people don't realize that it takes a lot of force to remove a knife from a wound. Then I stood on a nail that was stuck in a plank, and it cost me all of my strength to pull it back out and I realized that about the difficulty in removing a knife that I'd heard about and I knew it was true.
I imagine, then, sometimes removing a weapon/knife is harder than getting it stuck in."
John...indeed...I wrote a short basic introductional lesson on the dynamics of 'knives' for those who may be unaware of the basic principles of the dynamics involved when they are used against a living human/animal body. For many, their understanding of knives comes from using chefs/kitchen knives on meat.
However, a mistake would be to apply those principles to a living body where circulating body fluids are in place with the heart still pumping and blood pressure even close to normal...added factors are bone structures such as the ribs or spine which can cause a blade to become lodged, as well as 'living' sinue and muscle which is designed to close round a wound (as well as whatever maybe inside it).
However...the real problem is presented by the circulating body fluids (i.e.blood) and the internal pressure of the living body (i.e. blood pressure). For a foreign body being inserted inside by force not via a natural orifice (i.e. a stab) forces of suction work on that body..l.the larger the foreign body...the greater the suction force.
Take a hyperdermic needle...this is a small body...at least in girth...however the forces exerted on that are greater then you perhaps imaging. Normally, needles are put into internal bodily tunnels (veins) or they are inserted sub cut so the forces exerted on them by the body is not that great...however, take a hyperdermic that has a long needle and hyperthetically stab someone in the stomach hilt deep with it...on pulling to withdraw you'll be surprised to find it feels 'stuck'...you'd actually have to make a fist good and firm around the syringe and give a real hard yank to get it out. Magnify this 'many' times for a knife...even more the bigger the knife.
In war the bayonet is still used by many armies, as well as the British army. In the rules of war it is perfectly acceptable to use them. However, it is against the Geneva Convention to whilst having thrust your bayonet into an enemy to pull the trigger and fire into them. Why were soldiers doing this in the first place so commonly as to require a law being made against it? It was not to inflict further damage on the enemy as many may think, which in any case goes against one of the main purposes of a bayonet which is to save you ammo in close combat...as well aa save the need to shoot into an enemy in close combat where the round may pass straight through him and into one of your own pals to his rear. In any case, trust me when I say that when someone has a belly full of bayonet many things are going through their mind but attcking you or anyone else is not one of them...they are out of action. In nearly all cases a bullet was fired into them to enlarge the hole to help break the suction forces so the bayonet6 could be withdrawn easier. You may notice watching the old films...big beefy soldiers holdiing a long thick rifle for good grip are still not strong enough to simply yank it out...they actully have to raise their foot and plant it on the enemy giving a vicious kick forward as well as yanking back with might...these are the forces involved.
In military and hunting knives certain features are usually inbuilt in the design. For example, close to the hilt a two or three inch portion of the blade is 'toothed' and are wider then the blade portion of the knife/bayonet...but these are not sharp, rather...they exist to 'grind' a groove (rather then saw) in the ribs say...to prevent the sharp blade portion getting stuck in the bone on withdrawl. Most importantly are the 'blood grooves' the side portions of the knife. These allow the blood to run out along these grooves so breaking part of the suction and making withdrawl easier. Finally, these knives tend to have very robust in girth handles so you can get your fist right round it...combined with grip ridges of some kind on the handle...you need a firm purcahse to be able to exert the necessary force to with draw it.
Now take a kitchen knife existing for the purpose of cutting 'dead' meat. It's different in every fundemental way. Knives that are blades do not have a serated portion, they have no blood grooves, they are very smooth and shinyalong each side (no contouration in shape...increasing suction hold)...the handles are very thin in girth and smooth...very bad if it's hilt deep in something with suction forces and you need to grip to pullo it out (add the possibility of that handle also being slippery with blood)...well, if an impliment similar to this was used on Meredith and not something made for the purpose, the latter being unlikely, I can tell you several things.
The murder weapon was inserted hilt deep, or close to. Whoever thrust it in would have had a hard job getting it out. We know they did since at some point the victim bled freely. But a question one has to ask is how long before this was done. Not only would it have been very difficult...but it would have been a horrble job. I suspect they may have waited a while before bolstering themselves for a second attempt. Until this point, whilst the victim would have been bleeding...it would have not been profuse. The blade would have operated much like a cork...once removed the victim had bare minutes to live...even less if thrashing around or fighting for breath, panic/high stress...this would have raised the heartrate increasing further the flow of blood out of the wound.
I also don't believe the knife was merely yanked out. Force would have had to have been applied the other way..i.e' gripping the face or neck and pushing it away or bracing it in place. This may have been the course for some of the bruising on then neck/face area and even the broken bone. Finally, I don't think this was the end of it...I am willing to 'bet' that the blade was rocked back and forth to enlarge the wound to enable it's withdrawl.
If I'm correct, this would answer certain questions...such as the apparent difficulty in being able to give a precise estimation of the shape and length of the knife that dealt the fatal wound...enlarging and tearing the inside of the wound by rocking would have enlarged the wound and effected its shape increasing the possible range of knife size. In regard to length, they at least know that the knife was at least a certain size as it passed through the neck...but not how long the portion protuding from the other side was or whether the knife went in hilt deep, or if not how close to the hilt. This is a major problem...it means at best due to a knife's shape or length they may be able to rule it out, but many potential candidates can be ruled in as 'possibles'.
goofy,
Let me try one more time. I took the time to prepare a list of questions to which Chris could answer yes, no or case related. I posted that yesterday, or was it the day before, and have seen no reply whatsoever.
These were mainly clarifications of what has been reported in the press. If you are Chris' colleague or a friend, please invite him back to answer those and other questions.
Again, this is not a homogenous blob but a buzzing laboratory of thought, opinion, agreement, disagreement. Many of us expressed compassion for what Chris Mellas the individual must be going through. There was one incredibly hostile voice, John T, but he has the right to speak and was not completely off base. I personally would have preferred that he skip the "information" from the dreadful article that showed pictures of the family home, referred to Chris as a toy boy and spouted a bunch of dime-store psychology. The article was crap.
Most of us here don't read that crap. And we're interested in finding out what happened and seeing justice done for Meredith. But we aren't a bunch of patsies who are going to refrain from asking the hard questions.
When Doug Preston posted here the other day, he addressed his post to all those who think Amanda Knox is guilty and ended it with a reference to the anti-Knox camp. There are probably a couple of people who fall into those categories here, but they certainly doesn't describe most of us. I think many people have tried to explain that. We are individuals; we deal with one another as individuals, and anyone is free to chime in.
Speaking for myself only, I would like to say that when you step in and deliberately misrepresent the views here like some kid in a schoolyard who just wants to pick a fight and has no concern for accuracy or even reading what is being said, well frankly that bores me stiff.
Goofy, your other name starts with an 'A' right? I forgot the spelling. This is a place where, thankfully, for the most part, we've been able to stay on topic. I'm kind of straying from that now, but I hope it's for a good cause. Part of the reason we're able to do that is because we keep it civil for the most part, and we don't react and get lured out too often. I think that most people here are really serious about learning the facts and finding out the truth. Most of us are open-minded and flexible. I know I've changed my mind several times about what I think happened as new evidence has been revealed, and changed my mind about some of the suspects as more information has become available. It's true that as in any other case people's opinions are colored by their own experience. It would be helpful if you and CMellas would understand that, and let it roll of your back if some people use overly judgemental words in describing Amanda. But this happens in regards to all the suspects. Again these are individuals who have a right to speak.
As far as John T is concerned, he is one guy. And there are no thought police here to step in and correct anyone (aside from Steve who has the right to delete posts- thank God he uses such good judgement).
Personally, if someone here comes in and says something I think is out of line, I think the target can take care of it himself. And I think CMellas did a good job of it. Ignoring them is a good tactic. If someone is out of line with me, I know how I would handle it, and I wouldn't expect others to come in and chastise the guy. That would lead to a total distraction from our topic.
Again, here, for the most part people are REALLY interested in the truth of this case. That's why your posts stood out so much as goofy, and even U-Bob, if that was you. Y'all weren't serious about it all. Looked like you were just goofing off.
Fair enough Sparrow!
"Certainly there were some who were contentious, and/or unbelieving, but that's what we all get when we are operating on the internet, and in this case the issue is very important no matter what side you are on."
For myself, I am on nobody's 'side'...neither am I 'anti' anyone. My current position is as a result of where the evidence and path of logic, plus maybe a small degree of intuition has taken me, not by 'belief' or 'wish'. My view is open to change since we do not as of yet have all the evidence and some we do have needs further verification/clarification/ruling in/out. Therefore, I don't choose' my position, it's chosen for me by what's 'there'. I therefore wish everyone wouuld stop trying to pigeon hole everyone into either an 'Anti-Knox' or 'Pro-Knox' camp. The 'Anti' tag is emotive as it implies a 'hatred' of Amanda. I believe her at present to be guilty of some degree of wrong doing but I don't hate her or anybody else. I 'want' to view her as innocent...but I have to have the evidence to take me there first. Otherwise, it's blind faith or a 'wish' or some political/racial/social issue, or some other issue one may imagine that's not actually really important to this case but something 'else', but certainly not about truth or what's right. Therefore, I wish everyone would relax with the 'us' and 'them' crap on 'all' the blogs. Whilst there are those, clearly, that will never change their view no matter what evidence comes to light...most belong to the 'Will honestly consider all new evidence as it comes to light and change my view accordingly if the evidence merits it' camp, as do I.
This point whilst quoting you Sparrow was not at you, rather I found its use expedient to make a general point to 'them'...them being anyone that tries to cause division by labelling 'everyone' as being in black or white camps and in the process detracting from the proper purpose of this debate...who killed Meredith and why.
SB, Sparrow,
Have nice weekends won't you!
so maybe that is why I am here myself....to just be part of the "game" so to speak.....
goofy | 02.15.08 - 9:29 pm | #
I think I can confidently say it's not a game for any of the regulars or semi-regulars here. It obviously is on other blogs.
I don't know how you can be a friend to CMellas and consider this a game. Again, he should do more than hit you on the head.
SB, Sparrow,
Have nice weekends won't you!
bpcl | 02.15.08 - 10:17 pm | #
You too!
Fair enough Sparrow!
goofy | 02.15.08 - 10:14 pm |
Thanks goofy. I hope CMellas comes back if he can. But I understand if he can't. Please consider seriously my post at 10:19. It's not hostile, just honest. You owe him an apology.
Now see Sparrow,
You try to read too much into my comment. I did put quotes around the word.
So please, here we go.....don't try to compare my friendship based on a quoted word. You are getting personal and not understanding what I am saying. It would be better if you just asked me what I mean by "game" instead of making acusations.
Would "part of this community" suffice?
geeeeeeeez
Skep,
OT a bit off topic..
I thought I read on another blog that you thought that the Italian Woman (Candace) was masquerading as CMellas. I'm confused because you posted this on the PI site last night
Do you really believe that?
Just curious....
You try to read too much into my comment. I did put quotes around the word.
So please, here we go.....don't try to compare my friendship based on a quoted word. You are getting personal and not understanding what I am saying. It would be better if you just asked me what I mean by "game" instead of making acusations.
Would "part of this community" suffice?
geeeeeeeez
goofy | 02.15.08 - 10:24 pm | #
I don't know what you mean by "comparing." If you meant "basing" as in "don't base my friendship on a quoted word," I wasn't doing that.
Yeah, you put quotations around the word, but I'm telling you, it's not a game her for anyone else. And you were playing around before. If my daughter were in jail, on suspicion of murder or associated crimes, I would not want my friend doing that.
No one else here is doing that, and we have no relative in jail in this case. I'm not getting personal at all with you, I'm just having an honest conversation with you.
I would like you to be a part of this community (which is not a game), but you have to realize we are going to talk about what we believe are the facts, all of them. It might be harder for you to look at some of them honestly because of your friend, but we can't hold back because of it.
And if you goof around with the facts or people here, you're not going to be taken seriously at all. I'm not hostile to you at all goofy. I wish you'd change back to your other name though.
goofy,
I made that comment ironically because it seems I was momentarily mistaken for another poster who did a very bad thing. Don't worry about it. It's all over. That whole misunderstanding has been cleared up between Candace and me. Candace is not Chris Mellas, and I never really thought that.
Thanks for asking, though.
Can I make a general comment? There was a stupid misunderstanding with the person who runs the PI blog, but it has been resolved. Candace runs her blog differently and she has a different viewpoint, but I hope people will give Candace a break and just get on with the topic at hand here. Even if you've violently disagreed with her, and even if she has kicked you off her blog, it's her blog and her right. Remember long ago, last weekend, Robert M asked that in general we leave that one alone? I hope everyone will.
Goodnight.
In regard to the truthfulness of Amanda Knox, as it has been raised again lately.
One thing that causes me concern regarding the question of the 'truthful nature' of Amanda is her 'apparently' turning to religion in prison and in the course of doing so asking the prison priest what the 'ressurection' is (music to any priest's ears). Now, I'm no Catholic...I've never been to a Catholic school (although as a kid I was in a Catholic cub scout pack and later moved up to the Catholic sea scout pack. However, I have made it my buisness to educate myself about the Catholic Church since it has had such an important impact on social/political/economic/military/spiritual/legal issues to name but a few, for the last two millenia
The ressurection is the most important event in the Bible and most important calender date in the Catholic Church, if not the whole of Christianity. I also know that in Catholic schools, especially private ones, the Catholic religion is central on the curriculum. Amanda has also, I presume been raised a Catholic. It therefore is inconceivable to me that Amanda could be anything less less then very familiar with it. Amanda has been described by some as naive...even if true that does not equate to being stupid...especially as her academic record indicates she's very bright and her friends have said as much. I therefore do not find this request being made to the priest coming from an 'honest' place...for an 'honest' purpose. Indeed, there is something that appears distinctly calculating about it.
Therefore, since it's not case related, I was hoping Mr Mellas...you may help us clear this up? Do you not feel a little annoyed in spending all that money on a private Catholic schooling for Amanda that she doesn't even know about the resurrection? Were you aware that she did not know about it? Can you explain how she would 'not' know about it?
Mr Mellas...perhaps you could also tell us....how good was Amanda's Italian?
Third question for Mr Mellas. You state that Amanda's story has remained consistant from the beginning...As I recall, at the beginning Amanda claimed to remember very little about the day/night in question due to cannabis/alcohol inflicted 'amnesia'. Has that 'memory loss' remained consistant too or has she regained it? If the memory loss existed/exists how can any 'alibi' given in, and sustained, during that time carry any weight if Amanda is suffering from memory loss either full or substantial? Has Amanda suffered any similar memory loss for any other days or only the day, or more specifically the 'evening, in question?
Mr Mellas, if it's not too personal to ask, does Amanda either currently or during the past few months take/been taking any prescribed medication for either any acute or a chronic medical complaints?
One final question Mr Mellas. Can you explain that since she was there at the time the postal police arrived and was with Amanda and RS, why Filomena did not see Meredith's body? Does Amanda still maintain that she 'did' see Meredith's body at this time?
I thank you for any answers you can give.
Michael,
amanda isn't Catholic. She went to a Catholic high school because it's very strong academically.
I'm just curious, since I've read every single post since day one, where were the links that stated Meredith was so moral? You all speak of her like she was and I'm wondering if that's really true. No disrespect to her, but everyone's trying to piece this puzzle together with facts and Amanda's personality as well as Guedes and Raffaeles have been picked apart in the worst way possible.
anotheranon | 02.16.08 - 12:38 am asks about morality.
Morality in terms of a murder victim is completely different than morality in terms of murder suspects.
For the victim, "morality" issues are tied to the number of people on the suspect list. If the list is short you then qualify for high morality marks, as with Meredith. Lower marks for Amanda because the list she provided (before she was a suspect) was much longer and that's all "morality" has to do with anything, in my mind.
For living suspects, however, "morality" is tied to inclination, capability, intent, and motive and investigators often have to ask tough morality-based questions using a fine pick just to get to the bottom of things. Just my view.
AnotherAnon?
Skep, where are you? For I must say, this one has 'roused my snakish temper".
I mistakenly gave you caps, but now I give you what you deserve...
was Meredith Kercher so moral? I could NOT care less. She was murdered. In her home, in her room, and it sure seems like by people who were known to her. No disrespect? Amanda, maybe. Meredith, No.
Hark? What's this? A new defense tactic? Blame the victim? "if only she didn't struggle, she'd be alive today?" - Dream on, Alice/Amanda. You'll get to Wonderland."
Goose
Fly by Night
Yet again cooler heads prevail. You said it much better than I could/would/SHOULD have. Victims of assault are ~used~ to having to explain why *they* asked for it. Another Anon? I ask only that you come up with another alias so I can be sure to skim over you. You make me ashamed that we are the same species.
Melissa (Goose?),
I hope I didn't let you down. I was out for the evening. My first reaction to another anon's posting is something like pure shock. "Links" to the victim's morality?! I don't quite know what to say.
The victim's morality does not come into play here; it simply doesn't. That should be obvious.
Goose,
Thanks for your support.
Nicki:
“The paper doesn't say what happened to the cat..
.__http://www.corriere.it/cronache/ ...ra_uccisa.shtm”
Many thanks for this article. It dates from 6th November (the day AK RS and PL were put in custody) and the gist is that as early as 4th November the forensic evidence allowed the police to conclude that the downstairs flat was not involved because the traces of blood found there were from the cat.
That means that the traces were minimal -- no smearing of walls etc downstairs as has often been said on this blog -- and that the police were incredibly thorough in sweeping the whole site (which is obvious, but many seek to question that). The blood apparently did come from the cat
’s injured ear. I wonder where the poor creature is, and whether someone is feeding it. In any case none of the protagonists seems to have gone downstairs at all.
Michael (UK):
“Can you explain ... why Filomena did not see Meredith's body?”
See Nicki
’s reply to my question on the previous blog. We do not know when Filomena arrived; and we do not know whether or not she saw the body.
It is time to review the ‘hard’ evidence as far as we know it, which is partially.
Skep,
The truth isn't always popular. I just couldn't have you taking the heat for me, but, then, I'm honest.
xo
(for what it is worth, xin is my favorite poster, SB a close second)
Regarding Goofy and his/her reflections on Chris M's appearance here, I wouldn't put too much into his/her representativity of Chris M. Abdar for me is much closer. He and Chris M have referred to each other in their comments. And Adbar's last one was this:
Abdar | 02.14.08 - 3:51 pm | "ChrisM is busy today and tomorrow. If he has time to visit you will be lucky .... Be patient. Much has happened (in a good way) in regards to the case and I am sure he needs time to work through recent events."
Chris M is virtual-world savvy enough to know that any blog is a smorgasbord, and that he can pick and choose between the greasy and low-fat, hydrocarb or protein, fish, poultry and meat. He doesn't need Goofy to arrange which plates are on the table.
Oh, must someone have huge respect for a person, as if they are some kind of film star, because his step-daughter is maybe a murderer?
Maybe a murderer, definitely a liar involved in a murder case.
I don't believe Mellas was here to discuss, why would he do that? It would/could be potentially damaging. It means he had a predetermined agenda, to alter people's opinions about Amanda.
But, in fact, I found him to be aggressive.
Telling me to keep out of his way then
and all that
So I wonder if this aggression is how he taught Amanda to deal with life?
Skep, I haven't looked at the other place for a day, and it seemed I missed something, and whatever I missed is all deleted anyway.
But since everyone is offering you their support, you've got mine too. (Even if it arrives late!)
Michael
What I meant was, you said the lack of repeated stabbing, shows there was not rage, but the job of getting the knife out, after that fatal blow, I would say would have stopped repeated stabs. And the extent, that fatale blow went to, could have made whoever did that to Meredith realize it was enough.
I see violence like this as a reflection of what is going on communally as a world society/force, in the pathetic attempts at a successful civilization, where world leaders are hypocrites blab blab blabbing about God and religion and Jesus using that as an excuse to do bad things where they are themselves unable to reflect what Jesus stood for, mercy, forgiveness and real love, where he said turn the other cheek and love your enemies. Instead they the leaders show that if you cannot get your way use violence. Is it any wonder that down at street level, even kids are now using violence more than ever before? Look at Britain, especially London and all opf the killings by kids of 15, to oyther kids of 15, 13, 11, one kid shot to death as he slept in his own bed.
Those kids all as they've seen in their short lioves are self-obsessed egomaniacs like Blair, and Bush, who stand behind violence instead of using intelligence and appeasement.
I see those people as indirectly guilty of the violence we are seeing.
People are born then become slaves to money then die.
It's no wonder that a ttrue balance is missing and people like in this case, go insane.
It is not getting better.
Good morning all.
Skep my support and respect too as always with the rather clever and intelligent people that grace this blog, I am honored to be able to read and assess your views... and the goal as always is to determine facts and the guilty ones.
I also am banned from 'that' site... and have now stopped even monitoring was is going on there as it is totally irrelevant to the case.
One bit that caught my eye was the posting of ANON questioning Meredith's morality, well responded Goose... it remind me though of a number of posts of that 'woman' also raising questions about Meredith and also her quotes about her being hung over and partied out...
Brian - Thanks for the pictures, they are very insightful, that looks like a mark as if someone had grabbed her, I play rugby and have had bruises like that on arms where finger was dug in, squeezing. Also the two of them do look like they have only just got out of bed not like they have had showers, roomed hair etc, were they from the day after the murder?
Steve thanks for starting the new blog and I concur super fast
Goofy - I think you are on the wrng blog, there is one on Settle PI perfect for you.
Have a good weekend everyone
John T - I liked the response about having to bleach the boxer shorts ... and of course 'commando'... made me chuckle :o))
I think the only option for Chris M and the Amanda defense team is to revert to the amnesia bit if he is saying that are going back to her original alibi....
Only problem was she has stated in between amnesia attacks:
1) watching a film
2) reading a book
3) having a shower
4) making love
5) with RS
Only problem with this is that RS did not suffer from amnesia and was:
1) Watching a film
2) surfing the net
3) not reading a book
4) he was on his own
3) ALONE
Also if the memory loss storyline used did will this apply to the morning also.
1) did she use bleach to clean RS apartment after the apparent flood? - This was her excuse for taking most of the cleaning materials out of the cottage. I would be interested to know when these were removed by AK as no mention has been made about this.
2) did she go back to her flat and shower before discovering it was a major crime scene . I understand that she left RS at 10.30 and did not alert him until 11.30, what did she do in that hour. She said she found the place with the door open!
3) Did she put on the washing machine, timewise and incrimination wise I think her response will be no
4) did she or RS phone anyone before postal police hit the scene?
One final thought...
RS alibi out of the 3 is the strongest by far... also his role in the crime I think was probably the lowest (in direct involvement in the murder) compared to the the other 2 suspects that are being held at present.
If this is so I think if I was he I would feel the happiest (not the wright word I know) as AK if she was involved cannot implicate him if his only role was in cleaning up her mess.
Likewise AK cannot implicate Guede, as if she was the enabler of the event then she knows that if Guede tells how the whole thing happended (he has already hinted at it...) then she is doomed.
I think AK is stuck in the middle, she knows to the left is Guede who probably dealt the fatal blow... on her right RS who helped clean up afterwards and offer her part of the alibi.
And.... you have RS who by saying she Amanda was not be between 9 and 1am covering his ar*e as they say...... He knows that he did not deliver the fatal blow, he also knows the events did not take place due to him...
If he as he...
1) I will tell the truth now and suffer the consequences
2) Or stay quiet and stick to my story and hope the dna and footprint and pc evidence evaporates just like the shoe print did!
I hope this makes sense??
If I was him....
1) I would tell the truth now and suffer the consequences regarding my actions
2) Or stay quiet and stick to my story and hope the DNA and footprint and pc evidence evaporates just like the shoe print did!
As none of them have been charged yet...
If indeed RS was only involved in covering for AK and Guede what type of prison sentence would he get for perverting the course of justice and interfering with the murder crime scene?
Sorry if this was covered before but I cannot remember it being discussed only that for murder and not helping someone that is wounder (which may still apply to RS)
Thanks
Raffaele has graduated:
http://www.ilmessaggero.it/
artic...z=HOME_INITALIA
Headline: Meredith: Sollecito has graduated in computer science
PERUGIA (16 February) - Raffaele Sollecito has graduated in computer science in prison in Perugia where he is being held for the murder of Meredith Kercher. The discussion of his dissertation lasted about twenty minutes. The topic of his thesis in computer science was Genetic Programming. The only family member present was his father, who after the ceremony remained to talk with his son. "It went well", said defence lawyers Marco Brusco and Luca Mauri. "Raffaele was very nervous, but also satisfied. The first step is over." The mark [??? – "voto di laurea"] was 99 over 110.
It seems to me that there are three ways of looking at this crime, (or four, if you count the "it's all Mignini's fault, in fact he probably did it himself" point of view).
1. Some people think all three of the suspects are implicated in some way in the murder. This might be the case, but it still needs to substantiated with more forensic evidence against Knox and Sollecito. At this stage, it's hard to see how those two could have been actively involved in a bloody knifing without leaving more substantial evidence of their presence in the room where the murder took place.
2. Another possibility is that Guede acted alone, and that the general paucity of forensic evidence against Knox and Sollecito results from the fact that they weren't there and simply didn't do it. This might be the case also, but the problem with this argument is the bizarre set of stories that Knox and Sollecito have told, that have at various times included attempts to blame Patrick Lumumba and/or each other.
There is also Sollecito's diary claim that Rudy Guede is the "real murderer" but that he's worried about what stories this real murderer might tell that might make Sollecito's own position less secure. What stories could he tell about someone he'd never met?
The case for Knox's and Sollecito's innocence still depends on their providing a satisfactory answer to the question, "Where exactly were you that night?"
3. There's a third group of ignorant people like myself who haven't got much of a clue about what happened at all.
Trying to poke around in my ignorant way for a bit of a clue, I asked Chris Mellas a few days ago whether Rudy Guede had been to the girls' house before the night of November 1st.
Chris's reply, in full, was: "Finn,
I can't go there. Sorry."
I found that very interesting, because Chris had been happy to confirm that Amanda had never spoken to Rudy on the phone, and he even said he would be prepared to upload her phone records (suitably modified, for understandable reasons) to back this up. He'd be happy to do all this because, he said, the phone records aren't part of the case.
On the other hand, we've also had reports from witnesses claiming that they had seen Guede at or around the house on at least two previous occasions - and that Guede was particularly interested in the two English-speaking girls.
What I understand from all this - perhaps mistakenly - is that Amanda Knox's step-dad has confirmed that Guede's presence in the house prior to the murder is considered (by Knox's family, at least) to be a significant part of the case.
I notice also that when Amanda listed to the police all the men she'd invited into the house in the few weeks she'd lived there, she never mentioned Rudy Guede. In fact I haven't heard her mention him at all, even though she has considered in writing the possibilities that either Patrick Lumumba or Raffaele Sollecito ("he had blood on his hand but I thought it came from the fish") might be the killer.
This still leaves me in the "don't know" camp, I'm afraid. I don't know whether Meredith Kercher invited Rudy Guede to the house, or perhaps one of the other two housemates invited him instead, or if he just invited himself. I don't know if Amanda Knox invited him, but clean forgot about doing so.
But the one thing I'm pretty sure about, because Chris Mellas himself confirmed it, is that Rudy Guede's previous visit to the house is considered a significant part of the case.
FinnMacCool | 02.16.08 - 8:10 am |"I notice also that when Amanda listed to the police all the men she'd invited into the house in the few weeks she'd lived there, she never mentioned Rudy Guede."
Good posting Finn, as usual.
If I may, let me add that while Amanda hasn't explicitly named Guede since the Giallo, she has described him, without assigning a name:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol...=null&
offset=12
"In her statement, on which she wrote "All the police must read this", Ms Knox listed "all the men" who "knew Meredith": Mr Lumumba, a Swiss man called Peter, a North African called Ardak, an Algerian called Yuve who worked at Mr Lumumba
’s bar, a Greek named Spyros and a Moroccan that she knew as "Shaky" and who worked in a pizzeria. Witnesses have said, however, that these were friends of Ms Knox, not Ms Kercher. She also described Rudy Hermann Guede, the fourth suspect, who was arrested in Germany this week and is awaiting extradition to Italy, but did not name him, even though she is said to know him well. "
Observer -
"amanda isn't Catholic. She went to a Catholic high school because it's very strong academically."
Thank you for correcting me on this. For my part I made this mistake because here in the UK it is a requirement for Catholic school that the child be Catholic...as well as both parents. You actually have parents here converting to the Catholic faith simply to get their child into the school...but first they are actually tested....have to go to Catholic church every week for a year, they're that strict. Some after this are still refused. I assumed the Catholic Church was uniform in its rules across borders (they aren't known for flexibility), at least in the basic premise the child actually be 'Catholic' to attend their schools.
John T -
"What I meant was, you said the lack of repeated stabbing, shows there was not rage, but the job of getting the knife out, after that fatal blow, I would say would have stopped repeated stabs. And the extent, that fatale blow went to, could have made whoever did that to Meredith realize it was enough."
It's a very good point you make. At the end of the day one has to assess whether someone so full of rage to pass a knife right through someones neck on finding they can't pull it out...would cause all that rage to just 'vanish'. Most men regard their fists and other body parts as weapons....if he 'was' deprived of the knife he was not deprived of 'weapons' (even use a chair or lamp if needed). Meredith would have been in no position to defend herself. If deprived of his knife, would he also be deprived of his rage?
Yesterday SoozieUK and LoveWolf were going over the bugged prison conversation between Amanda and her parents. I wanted to get some more on that, and try to confirm if Amanda's father told her to shush up. Well, I was sort of incorrect on that point.
We have to be careful even of the "serious" newspapers, at least the English language ones, as the reporters piecemeal information together, and I'm sure they deal with different stories and can't dedicate time to become experts in any one news item.
From the Times, there are two articles from two different days which cover the bugged conversation. I've stitched them together (careful with my suppositions on exactly where the stitching occurs). This doesn't really change anything, but enhances a little the original Times report.
The first quote is from the extensive Sunday Times article from 13 January 2008, which I'll quote in normal letter:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
tol...icle3159584.ece
The second article is a normal Times news article from 2 December 2007, which I'll quote in italics (if I can figure out italics)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/
europe/article2983881.ece
" On November 17, in a conversation that was bugged by police, Knox talks to her parents at the prison.
According to the 11-page transcript, Knox said the previous day was “bad” — the television news called her a liar.
“Yesterday was a bad day. The TV news called me a liar. But I didn’t do anything,” she tells them.
Knox’s mother tries to reassure her.
“They’re trying to frighten you into saying something,” her mother says.
Knox replies: “It’s stupid; I can’t say anything else. I was there and I can’t lie about this.”
Her father advises Knox not to talk to anyone.
Her lawyers, however, said she was referring to Sollecito’s flat.
Knox protests that other prisoners stare at her as if she was “a horrible being”. She adds: “My cell is cold and I’ve got a headache. I feel better only during my walk. I can sing and even shout and that makes me feel good.” [this last paragraph repeated exactly from the December 2 article]
When Knox
’s mother tells her that Sollecito’s lawyers are saying “nasty things” about her, Knox immediately changes the subject. “Mom, as soon as I get out of here, after the court hearing, let’s go shopping,” she says.
Kermit | 02.16.08 - 11:07 am | I'm on a learning curve with the strange codes here. I've tried to clean up my prior posting ref the amalgamated bugged conversation:
" On November 17, in a conversation that was bugged by police, Knox talks to her parents at the prison.
According to the 11-page transcript, Knox said the previous day was "bad" - the television news called her a liar.
"Yesterday was a bad day. The TV news called me a liar. But I didn't do anything," she tells them.
Knox's mother tries to reassure her.
"They're trying to frighten you into saying something," her mother says.
Knox replies: "It's stupid; I can't say anything else. I was there and I can't lie about this."
Her father advises Knox not to talk to anyone.
Her lawyers, however, said she was referring to Sollecito's flat.
Knox protests that other prisoners stare at her as if she was "a horrible being". She adds: "My cell is cold and I've got a headache. I feel better only during my walk. I can sing and even shout and that makes me feel good." [this last paragraph repeated exactly from the December 2 article]
When Knox's mother tells her that Sollecito's lawyers are saying "nasty things" about her, Knox immediately changes the subject. "Mom, as soon as I get out of here, after the court hearing, let's go shopping," she says.
-
Chris M have referred to each other in their comments...
This is not correct. The commentor signing cmellas never mentions an Abnar...not that it makes a whole lot of difference since I don't a family member would comment here anywhere.
Anonymous | 02.16.08 - 11:23 am |
Here we go again:
"My coworker that showed up here was offering up unsolicited support which was very nice of him, though I may smack him for it anyways since I am now having to deal with questions he raised, it was thoughtful of him so perhaps I will buy him a coffee after the smackdown." cmellas | 02.13.08 - 5:04 am |
In addition, in a posting I made to Abdar at: Kermit | 02.13.08 - 4:18 am |, I said "Whatever the situation of Amanda's guilt / innocence, of course she is subject to the legal processes of Italy. Amanda's family's acceptance of that shines compared to others non-acceptance of it."
Cmellas, not Abdar responds to it at cmellas | 02.13.08 - 5:39 am |, saying "Thankyou, it has been difficult but given that she is innocent, we feel that we will be heard at some point and that is some solace...not much but some and it helps."
I haven't looked for other instances of recognition by the two, but I can assume that Cmellas the poster, if he had wanted to repudiate a relation with Abdar, would have done so, and not referred to any "co-worker".
Let's not waste time with this discussion, please. And if you want to open up a dialogue and not make just a one-off comment, I suggest you choose a moniker.
Folks, I have reason to think the Chris was for real, and that "goofy" was a co-worker. I can see a lot of data you all can't -- one reason I always try to correct folks when they refer to commenting here or at any weblog as "blogging." It isn't -- you can't see other's e-mails, their IP addresses. You can't delete their posts if they're obnoxious. Something could go kerflooey tomorrow and take these comments away, but I'd still have my blog posts in my e-mail. The blogger is also the webmaster, so there really is a big difference.
One reader came up with "blogment" a long time ago, and that's closer to accurate, because plenty of comments I get would make decent blog entries, I do agree.
I have a lot of experience in people trying to troll under different hats. I can still be fooled, of course, but I think you all are being overly suspicious, based on the data in my stat trackers. That's still just a personal opinion, though. I'm not so sure that the Madeleine McCann PR model applies that well to this case.
For the record -- the IP has been edited:
IP Address: 66.194.74.**
United States
Washington
Bellevue
ISP: Chris Mellas
Returning Visits: 9
Visit Length: 7 hours 9 mins 21 secs
If cmellas and Abnar are who they say they are then their flippant style of posts were VERY disturbing to me. They presented absolutely nothing of substance to convince me of Amanda's innocence.
Edda and Curt's body language and expressions of pain on 20/20 indicated to me they are scared and they both know Amanda is in serious trouble. Chris M might want to take a trip to Italy and see for himself.
~~
Just so you all know -- I'm not trying to take anyone's side here -- I think the intro to this open thread makes it clear how I view this case right now. But I do believe in being fair, and I also think that a lot of discussion about these people being who they say they are eventually derails the thread as a whole, and ends up essentially off-topic.
In reply to Steve's post above, and not having scrolled back up since last night, my gut feeling last night was that "goofy" is a coworker of Chris' and that he and "abdar" are the same person.
My only problem with goofy last night is that he was being rude to just about everyone. Maybe that situation has evolved...
Steve,
I agree with Indie. I see no reason to question their identity but they--in particular goofy--are not being particularly respectful of the board. It's like they want to derail the discussion.
As you rightly say, the problem is that they are succeeding if we spend all day talking about whether or not they are who they say they are.
I asked goofy last night and will ask again: do you plan to contribute to the discussion or derail it? I hope it is the former.
I'll even go out on a limb and say I have no doubt you are who you say you are. You sound like that guy.
Anonymous --> will you please establish a handle as sometimes regulars are on other PC connections that default to "Anonymous". You've been consistent in your tone so you must be just one Anon., [perhaps a descendant of that Great English Poet?] but still would you please choose a handle.
WOW, it looks like I tell Everybody to Take a Break Until March 'cause nothings going on, and Even More Interesting Stuff Breaks Out. I have some reading to do!!! Has xin been back?
Yet again, PLEASE, no more about Candace. If you want to B&M about her, create your own blog at blogspot, call it "Italian Candy Ain't Sweet" and have at it there.
And I see that Steve H thinks quite highly about Dog Preston, for all of you taking shots back on Halo III.
Until I get a chance to read the last several hundred posts at Halo III...
as Middie would say
Ciao
.
KERMIT
Before this gets too long, could you re-post your links to the various presentations shortly, so we can just say "go to top of this thread, Kermit such & such"? Thanks.
I agree Steve. I am sorry to have made a comment about the whole CMellas/Abdar "issue" but those two are just not sitting right with me.
I was wondering to those in the know:
On April 1st will Amanda's defense team need to be prepared to solidify whatever alibi they feel is most suited to convince the judge she was not involved with the murder? In other words will more facts surface either from the ILE side or defense side?
~~
To anotheranon, who asked for links to Meredith's morality (did you mean as in hypertext links???) said: "No disrespect to her, but everyone's trying to piece this puzzle together with facts and Amanda's personality as well as Guedes and Raffaeles have been picked apart in the worst way possible."
Meredith Kercher was murdered. We cannot today examine her current actions because she ceased brutally to be in a position to act on the night of November 1. We don't need to ask her for an alibi or an accounting of her actions: UNFORTUNATELY, we know precisely where she was when the murder occurred.
For some insight into the person she was, the police retrieved a diary from her room that may give us some idea of what she was thinking around the time of her death. Maybe it will give us some idea of who might have done this to her; maybe no. In the Le Monde article I posted here, the journalists says this about Mez: "...a victim that everyone describes as reserved, sensitive and a little shy."
Minotaur,
We know when Filomena arrived, according to the Judge's report I quoted yesterday:
"On 2 November 2007 at 12.35pm persons from the Postal Police of Perugia went to Via della Pergola 7 in order to track down Romanelli Filomena, since in the same morning Mrs Lana Elisabetta had found on the lawn of the garden attached to her house, in Perugia, Via Sperandio 5b, two mobile phones of which one had the sim card of Vodafone 348 467 3711, belonging to the same Romanelli.
Upon reaching the destination the agents found outside the building on Via Della Pergola 7 two youths, identified as KNOX Amanda Marie, who lived at that address, and SOLLECITO Raffaele, who said they were waiting for the Carabinieri military police, called because on that morning they became aware of a window with the glass broken and had suspected a theft.
In the meantime, at 1pm, arrived Romanellli, the housemate of Knox who verified that nothing had been taken from the apartment."
We don't know, however, if she saw the body. But I'm sure she knows. So we'll find out.
...But "coming into her own", which is I think a US phrase. Re Patrick L's later comments about offering her a server/bartender job just a day or two before her death. She'd told him her own ["wicked mix"?] drink recipe to impress him. [Halo II, I think.] Also, see the Halloween pics for her developing public exuberance. This would have been an important transistional year for her, but more for personality development than say education -- these are mini-"Grand Tours". I've written before on this that "Meredith was going to have a great year."
I do believe that ILE has identified and interviewed ALL the males who could qualify as "boyfriends" even tangentially, or they should have to eliminate all possible suspects. We don't actually know that as no statement on interviews beyond "the boys downstairs" has ever been released. Those they did tell the papers had been interviewed.
reposted from haloscan
Michael (UK),
99.999% of the time the dog bites the man, man bites dog .001% or less.
Forensic pathologists know that, for the most part, a slashed or stabbed throat supports the theory of a male (usually an angry male).
Forensic pathologists look to the suspect(s) past.
Question:
Why did mignini fire the med examiner?
Didn't he like the results?
Can he do that?
Question:
Has Davies(the lady in france) been found guilty or has she confessed?
Steve,
You can tell them I am Abdar.
Since I said Abdar was going silent, I didn't want to use that name anymore. Youcan confirm my email...
also, I think I came clean with attitude last night with Sparrow...go back and read....
I am one person, but many of you came out and got all over my program in her or skeps defense. Its a two way street....so I haven't said anything more...nor I don't know if I will after today
I or Chris can't bring anything to this blogspot.
Good luck to you all.
Signed,
goofy, Abdar, does it really matter?
Ubob,
For a good and humorous explanation of Lalli's demise, see Frank's perugia shock blog entry for yesterday.
As for Jessica Davies, I can check that status of the case if you want, but I think she confessed immediately and even called the ambulance.
goofy, Abdar, does it really matter?
googy | 02.16.08 - 1:16 pm | #
I like Abdar, and I thought we had some good talks last night.
abdar (goofy/googy),
Are you speaking for Chris when you say you can't bring anything to this blogspot?
Can you or he tell me if the questions I posted the other day are all case-related and therefore can't be answered?
I'm sorry if you felt I was all over you last night. It just didn't seem that you wanted to bring anything constructive to the discussion when you arrived. Maybe that's unfair. I'll go back and reread your posts and the replies.
I hope Chris will come back and join us. But it is important to know that this is not a support group or a group of close family and friends whose role is to provide comfort. Chris certainly needs that right now; his world has been turned upside down and he's stuck in a process that has been set in motion and must play itself out. There's little he can do to alter that. It must be difficult. If he came here, it must have been to discuss the case and defend a point of view. That is legit. He offered to answer questions and we accepted his generous offer. There was some background noise, some dissenting voices. We've all had to learn to deal with them, sometimes just by ignoring them. As his friend/coworker, maybe the best thing you can do for him is to help him ignore the voices here that are openly hostile. My feeling yesterday, though, was that you wanted to rile folks up. That doesn't seem helpful to your friend.
RobertM:
I think it was a mojito made with Polish Bison vodka, which PL would have appreciated as a nod to his Polish wife.
How many Poles does it take to build a case in Perugia?
GOOFY!! --> NO!! Don't go. I just got back!!!! I haven't read cm or your posts yet!!!
What matters is direct conversation. If you can bring direct factual knowledge or even indirect emotional understanding, stay around, please. (Must warn you, xin bites.) Sure there are (most) people here who've made up their minds. Why, JohnT isn't half so sure as rob from London. (ha!) And on the other hand Pinecone hasn't re-appeared to restate his basic thesis so I'll do it again:
which is, as far as we know, and bcpl please note this, there is NO trace of AK's DNA as blood or otherwise in Meredith's room -- none, nada, nyet. Whereas what isn't there of Rudy's? And we still have the two "outlier" DNA on the cotton swabs [perhaps the very ones that can be seen on the top of the duvet in Kermits pics] which would seem to show that yes TWO (2) people were in that room with Rudy. And everything that could be argued that places AK there that night is really--so far by what the ILE has leaked to the press--just what you would expect to find of someone who was living there.
If ILE had a true smoking gun piece of evidence on AK, then in the much earlier words of seattleite's attorney boyfriend, it's finito, throw away the key. BUT they DON'T because if they did, they'd have TRUMPETED it all around. That's been their SOP all along. No DNA, no trumpet. Getting very very very circumstantial.
As to the question Douglas Preston posed on Halo III re Mignin's ongoing participation as prosecutor, no, I'm not happy to see that given his past history and that's not just with Preston. He's got an idee fixee. But once assigned a case, it takes top-top-level intervention, as happened int he Madeline case, to get someone like that off. Natural bureaucratic politics.
So, goofy, stick around and please contribute concretely. Once, on another of Steve's threads, we had key witness posting after she'd testified (vetted through Stee). Now THAT was interesting!
SB No, I don't. How many Poles does it take?
(I was never good at sussing these things out beforehand.)
Goofy / Abdar / Chris M ... when the missionaries started travelling the world, they didn't expect pagans to be kneeling down and praying to the Virgin Mother Mary after just two briefing sessions. Come on, you are old enough to brave (or ignore) the flak and tell us about the Cross. And if you keep at it, you may just achieve that some of us incorporate this or that of your dogma in our traditional tribal ways. Or not. But, if you try, you're already getting results that 20/20 doesn't get. Don't worry, we're not going to boil you in a cauldron with sliced tomatoes, garlic a bit of salt.
-
Robert M,
Well, so far we have PL's wife, possibly the Polish student who saw AK and/or RS, and a male student from Poland who was interviewed (why I can't remember) in the early days.
Too bad the dumpster scraper is Albanian. But there may be more to come...
Robert M. | 02.16.08 - 12:10 pm | "Kermit ... could you re-post your links to the various presentations"
Here they are. The image quality (+ some bits of animation) are much better in the Powerpoints (the files with .pps extension) rather than the .pdf's.
Updated Floorplan
Giallo-Floorplan-Updated-pt0a.pps (2.5 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?eao191ydit0
Giallo-Floorplan-Updated-pt0a.pdf (6 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?1gwtvgo90nw
(Updated floorplan of cottage with crimescene CSI video and photo images)
-------------------------------------------------
Relation of girls' house to Raffaele's and Rudy's place
PerugiaLocations-pt0b.pps (1.5 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?2u1utdtzx2j
PerugiaLocations-pt0b.pdf (2 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?dn1myyzidkh
(Relation of Girls' house to Raffaele's and Rudy's homes, also to location where mobile phones were found. Presentation from early December.)
-------------------------------------------------
Pre-crime movements of persons of interest, on Nov.1
GialloDiPerugia-pt1.pps (4 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?19ewg34myso
GialloDiPerugia-pt1.pdf (15 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?eh1wetdyoyx
(Movements of main persons involved, in the afternoon and early evening of Nov.1 - no actual crime events documented. This file is useful because of the documental hyperlinks at the end - mostly to newspaper articles - which are associated with the individual events depicted in the presentation ... This file is from very early January, so some comments are outdated: eg. the English friends did not return to Perugia for further questioning, the Time of Death has varied, and the finding of Raffaele's DNA on the victim's bra changes the possible scenarios.)
-------------------------------------------------
Attempt to understand structure and history of cottage
GialloDiPerugia-pt2-TheHouse.pps (4 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?6dggy94u0am
GialloDiPerugia-pt2-TheHouse.pdf (10 mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?cb1311zyz1s
(Good for understanding relation to road, carpark, town)
-------------------------------------------------
Premeditated Merlot
Giallo--Mudedes-Merlot.pps (4 Mb.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?1113ydkuj14
(Potpourri Powerpoint of odds and ends based loosely on Charles Mudede's visit. There's no pdf yet, will try to get it out this weekend)
-
ubob (sorry about the U cap earlier):
If you're interested, here is a translation from a French source of Miss Davies' sad story:
A 28-year old British woman was taken into custody on Monday, November 12, 2007 after admitting that, under the influence of alcohol, she had stabbed a 24-year old man she had met in a bar in Saint Germain-en-Laye. (Note: this is basically a suburb of Paris).
Early Sunday morning, Jessica Davies, still inebriated, called the police to say she had stabbed a man she had spent the night with in her Saint Germain-en-Laye apartment.
Extreme sexual experience
Initially unable to explain her actions, she said she was suffering from a memory lapse, and only remembered having met the young French man in a bar a few hours earlier. She later said she had been inspired by the murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia, and was looking for an extreme sexual experience.
The best thing that could happen to me
According to friends who have visited her in prison, the young woman said that this was the best thing that could happen to me. According to her former boyfriend, Jessica didnt even mention the poor guy. She went on to say that this event had been a wake-up call and that she was going to seek treatment for her mental and drug problems.
Thank you, Kermit!
Drat, I thought we had a legit joke there, SB, as in 3 but only if one of them brings a hammer and nails becasue the other two bring the books (for the case). Weak weak weak. I just can't do jokes. A pun, on occasion.
I can completely understand that for Chris Mellas there would be good days, and there would be bad days. On the good days we might expect to see him here. For the record, I want to say that I would love to see Amanda set free from all this - if she is innocent. I do believe there is some potential for that to happen and that there is ample evidence of a warm and generous spirit within her. I think there are a lot of cards yet to be played and you adults are never going to be able to understand what her reality is like - you can only make of it what you are able based upon your own experiences. This deal is not done and if Chris can provide substantial support for her innocence I'm more than willing to listen.
RobertM,
I'm working on that joke, but am not much good either. I've rejected a couple of ideas as horribly inappropriate.
Robert M:
How about it takes 3, but only if one of them is really Albanian...
Though some here treated him respectfully, I can understand why Mr. Mellas lost interest. This seems to be an instance where factionalism didnt serve us well.
He was put on the defensive and was really in a losing situation. Bombarded with more questions than he could have possibly handled, if he didnt answer them hed be perceived as evasive and if he did, he risked cross-examination that he probably couldnt have fully responded to even if he wanted.
Also Doug Prestons input was dismissed as less than relevant, unfairly, I think.
Too bad the dialogue seems to be split into two camps that sometimes cant communicate with one another. But lets move on
SB, best we just stop there.
daniel, I'd rather keep trying to mesh the two, in our fashion here. You know from Halo I what theories I first came up with. You also know that I'm adept at taking Pinecone's otherway position so working from the defense side on anything new that leaks. The certainty of xin & robUK and JohnT may be totally correct. And that's a hard hard hard thing for someone like Chris Mellas (as it would be for any of us) to take about some one they've know for so long in the intimacy of a living household situation. The Kerchers have a big hole in their lives. The Knoxes/Mellases have a swirling, sucking vortex that may get larger or smaller & who knows? and so the anxiety is daily & constant.
Alas, this is not the place to have that anxiety palliated. But to worry over it, work on it, yes, this is a place for that. I would have suggested to Chris M that he do as the woman in the Georgia murder case did, create a once-removed persona and present the alternatives to us, i.e. be Abdar and not cmellas. As the case is in the Italian courts, and not in the US and there's no gag-order against discussing it, "I heard from a friend" stuff is perfectly appropriate here. To which the old regulars (coyotewatch, xin, etc) and the new ones could cogitate on. I'm not trying to just be even handed. I AM trying to consider, always, "well if this then that" or "if That then this." And surely there are things that as the querying persona Abdar COULD present and discuss. The objective being perspective.
Perhaps goofy as Abdar could do this. That would be twice-removed and might be more psychologically comfortable.
And some times, as I've written at length on Halo II and Halo III, Good People get involved in Bad Things out of transitory willfulness, sometimes inadvertently out of bad luck or plain stupidity or an alcohol induced stupor. And sometimes those are people we know and care about. And the outcomes are not good.
CASE in POINT: Tewksbury MA mother of 2, stay-at-home soccer mom for past 5 years is now doing 5 months at Fed Danbury Prison, and will do another 5 months braceleted at home, because Fed DAs prosecuted her on lying to a grand jury in what turned out to be a civil case. I suspect it was a close call to prosecute but they had their ire up because they'd given her immunity in this Big Pharma price-fixing case (which resulted in only a large large fine, no one else ever charged). Won it before a jury and Mom lost all appeals which took 4 years!! So, she's a Federal felon with all that entails (its far far worse than being a state felon--which is why Bush pardoned Libby at Cheney's request) over something her first attorney should have rectified IMMEDIATELY with the DA. She's Officially a Bad Person, but of course she's NOT - she's a Good Person who mispoke. Still she's away for 5 months, under house arrest for 5 more, can't ever vote again, has to check off the felon box on job applications, etc etc.
According to a report Raffaele is being transferred to a different prison. From Perugia to Terni. They make it sound as its just normal. http://translate.google.com/tran...&tbb=1&ie=utf-
8
I have found more details on the post-mortem that I wasn't aware of...Briefly:
Lalli found 0,43 grams/liter alchool in Meredith blood, no drugs of any kind.He has also found a bruise on her face compatible with compression by bare hands, and a cut on the palm of her right hand in the "vain attempt to resist an attack by knife".
http://www.umbriajournal.com/dat...sistem/
home.htm
DLW,
Isn't Terni not too far from Perugia? They're both in Umbria, right? Maybe the facility in Terni is bigger? I was thinking it had to do with being closer to family, but that would not be the case here. Sounds like a routine administrative matter.
Robert M,
Have gotten no further with the joke. Decided to give up.
Daniel,
I honestly don't think the dialogue is as split as you suggest. We do try and mesh, as Robert M says--just look at some of the clashes that result.
When Chris Mellas came here, he had to deal with the usual suspects, as he must surely have known. After all, he had been reading 3 boards before he decided to jump in here. I have reread all the interactive posts with him, and feel that many people were receptive. Kermit and Michael, in particular, managed to establish a positive dialogue. If you look at the early posts, Chris himself agreed (or maybe even suggested) that we should ask questions and he would either answer or decline if case related. The majority took him at his word. Kermit's questions were short and to the point. In addition, his decision to visit got around quickly and attracted other posters. It's a free world.
I spent an entire evening looking at what he had already discussed and putting together questions to which he could answer yes, no or out of bounds. The idea was to allow him to take the time needed to reflect before answering. I didn't want to put him on the spot.
Maybe it turned out to be more difficult or frustrating than he had expected, or maybe whoever he was consulting on some questions was saying no too much of the time.
Sure, there was some hostility, but that's to be expected in an open forum like this one. Everyone faces the same constraints and has the same freedom. I would welcome his return but understand if he chooses not to. I imagine it wasn't an entirely pleasant experience, but how could it have been under the circustances? In fact, based on my limited experience here, he got pretty special treatment. I had never seen Steve Huff intervene before, as he has done in the last three days. I think that's a sign of respect.
Are there things you think should have been done differently?
SB
Terni appears to be about 50 mi south of Perugia. The prison is high security facility where apparently they also send mob figures. Raffaele should have some good company their. I assume they are maximizing limited prison space. I read where they might also relocate Rudy and Amanda. Settling in for the long stay.
Thanks for the reply, DLW. Wow. I hadn't thought of it that way.
I'll see how it goes and think about whether I will engage in the discussion.
I will see on a case by case basis. If chris decides to engage ... that is up to him. Mignini is a bit of a whinner and since family is in Italy, maybe some engagements are better left alone ... if you know what I mean.
nicki:
Re your post about Meredith's blood alcohol count of 0.43 grams/liter (would it be 0.43mg/liter?). Does this mean she consumed some alcohol on the day/night she died? That must be close to two glasses of wine, no?
In France, which has very strict drinking-driving laws, you are allowed a maximum of 0.5mg/ml of alcohol per litre in your blood (compared to 0.8mg/ml in the UK).
What about Italy?
Wasn't it reported that Meredith and her frie