steve huff, why is it that you know so much about carmine baffa? have you trained with him?
No, anonymous. Sometimes I'm just good at finding what other journalists miss. Mr. Baffa left all of this stuff online at some point. None of it was difficult to find if you have some advanced web research skills.
Please don't post as anonymous again. I have a policy against that and am often automatically suspicious of people who leave themselves as "anonymous." Call it a pet peeve, but one that's grounded in past experience.
Thanks.
steve, based on that way you wrote about carmine baffa, seems like you know quite a bit about nlp. sure carmine broke the law by having sex with a 13-year old but your writing is not exactly unbiased base on taking very limited snapshots of his writings. what is your agenda here? were you a student of carmine and thought that he harmed you so you are presenting a rather tinted perspective? seems like you are putting quite a bit energy to demonize this person. i wonder why you are doing that? there are many other rapists in GA. you have not dedidated your time with them but you are with carmine.
To answer your question in a bit more detail: I'd never heard of Mr. Baffa until last night, on a local newscast, even though he lives several miles north of me.
After that I simply gathered info from what had already been reported and did my own research. Mr. Baffa's website has been online for years, and he's been posting messages online for more than 10 years. Again, this wasn't difficult research. If you've only just seen my blog for the first time, you may not know that I'm a professional journalist. The magazine for which I write wouldn't be interested in this story because Mr. Baffa isn't well-known, not a true celebrity. So I figured I'd just blog about it, in because he's accused of several crimes and this is a "true crime" blog, and also because this blog is read by people all over the U.S. and if others feel as though Mr. Baffa victimized them, they might catch this post in a Google search and hopefully contact the Gwinnett County PD.
"sure carmine broke the law by having sex with a 13-year old..."
WTF?
That sort of glib statement deserves no further response.
You're a troll.
ETA: Since you arrived at this post by googling "Carmina Baffa" and "rape," it's pretty clear you've some sort of agenda. You knew about Carmine and the rape charges prior to reading this blog. You either know Carmine and are itching to defend him or something like that.
IP Address 75.58.48.169
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Region Indiana
City Gary
ISP At&t Internet Services
Returning Visits 0
Visit Length 1 hour 22 mins 50 secs
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It's tragic that people can be so desperate for answers--for a simple 'guide to life' they'll give up everything: money, family; even their basic liberty, as long as they're promised something deemed "more valuable".
The emperor's new clothes.
High-functioning, intelligent sociopaths are modern day 'demons'
and their imps are blog trolls.
*watches start of bottom YouTube clip* Okaaaaayy... So, if I decide to believe that my bi-polar diagnosis is complete BS, I can magically go on to live a much better, happier life? Always getting what I want, always happy, never sad, with accelerated learning/memory, and less need for sleep to top it off?! Er, right. He wants a zombie horde of followers doesn't he? He has dreams of "Godhood", where he gets to decide what reality is. Of course, I suppose in some ways we all do this, but not to that degree, and not so we can rule others/take advantage of them either.
Hah you people are so stupid.
This guy [steve huff] is just putting out useful information to protect and help people and all you other people can do is accuse him of not knowing what hes talking about.
I met with carmine on several occasions, got to know him really well. It was unfortunate, hes a sick fucking man and I have no doubt he'll be in jail forever.
Those of you who havent been there and dont have good intentions to help other people need to shut your negative mouths.
If you have any information at all call Detective King @ 770-513-5356.
I live in Atlanta and saw this on the news at 5 AM this morning (11Alive)... At first (with the photo shown) I thought he was a woman- they only mentioned "therapist"... not "he" or "she". So I wouldn't be surprised if some folks will be confused.
I'm sure that more folks will come out of the woodworks... if they're not brainwashed already...
Steve, do you know if he was ever affiliated with Landmark Education ever? It has a rep for coercion via empowerment seminars... and some missing folks.
Holy crap! This POS is facing at least 17 counts of Aggravated Rape, 12 Counts of Child Molestation, 29 counts of Aggravated Child Molestation and 22 Counts of Aggravated Sexual Battery (ie unwilling penetration with a foreign object)!
Depending on the judge, this guy is looking at anywhere from 65 to 2000+ years! And for that number of specific charges to be lodged, the dumbass must have video-taped/documented himself doing it.
Nancy, I'd bet you're right about him documenting things. I linked the page where he listed his camera set up.
I'm afraid this may be the tip of the iceberg- he's been around a long time.
I would like to suggest he take on a new patient- Drew Peterson!
A journalist friend from TN e-mailed me with the observation that this guy was rockin a semi-Anton Chigurh haircut (Javier Bardem's incredibly scary hit man in No Country For Old Men.)
That's not why this dude seems creepy, but it doesn't help.
a) the 19 year old states carmine raped her 14 months ago on Jan 1 2007, yet she lived with carmine for 6 MONTHS after the allefged rape.
b) the 13 year old? sorry, but that is a bogus charge. too long to write now.
c) the sexual posting that is above in this blog, you failed to state that carmine was answering a question and after he wrote what you placed he stated:
Putting the fun aside for a moment, let me seriously answer your question
d) all the alleged charges that are posted at the sherrifs website, well, read the numbers, they are copies of the main charges not new charges.
e) the fact is, Carmine had a falling out and this is the end result, BS charges.. what ever happened to wait and see just what is going on?
It's fine if you want to defend Carmine and you can do it without insulting anyone else, Johny, but you realize the "bogus, bogus, bogus" argument isn't going to be taken seriously, don't you? People look at cases like this differently the moment a kid younger than 17/18 is involved.
As far as me failing to show something -- I linked the source. An archived version of the source document, in fact, which is probably more secure than the original site. Anyone who wants to be sure I didn't make it up or check and see if the presentation is biased can read the source document.
Hey, John Adams -- couldn't help but notice that you linked fradek.com as a homepage. The nature of the site is unimportant, but I did note that it is registered to a Denise Minnix.
What's weird about that is a Denise Minnix lives in the same area as Carmine Baffa in North GA. A Denise Minnix also showed up on the NLP newsgroup 10 years ago, defending Carmine Baffa in some sort of dispute.
Probably just a coincidence, right? Or maybe even altogether "bogus."
I find it interesting - okay well bothersome - that "annoymous" and "john adams" are spending time on this site being so judgemental of the author and not concerned with the alledged crimes of the perp himself. Anyone who reads this site knows that Steve researches significantly and has issues with writers who are not responsible in their own research. Oh wait - that is also obvious with the information Steve found on the bogus commentors themselves.
It never ceases to amaze me how utterly stupid people can be when it comes to the internet. Marlie, meet Denise...Denise, Marlie.
And for the POS Baffa - just yuck.
I'm used to these types of comments on certain cases. The suspect is usually someone who is very charismatic and charming. At least charismatic.
The last case I can recall where I had lots of comments from people who were similarly interested only in the suspect's reputation and didn't care about the victims was also here in Georgia.
And after reading a few of the fur-flying posts at alt.psychology.nlp might I just add "Wow!"
I wonder how Tom and Ross are reacting to the news of Baffa's arrest...a day they must have been waiting for, for over 10 years now...
John, looks like they're all over it. Search Google Groups for "Carmine Baffa" using the quotes and you should see the most recent posts. I think some people in that newsgroup smelled something funky a long time ago. He didn't post again using his own name after the year 2000, that I could see.
I went and looked at the Usenet postings. The jargon the posters threw around definitely had a culty feel to it, like EST & Scientology.
Baffa must have had it made mind-fucking (and otherwise) the gullible from that scene.
The fact he got as far as he did with these people without any kind of degree is mindboggling.
john adams...
you need to do some research buddy.
the 19 year old did NOT live with him for 6 months you idiot. you dont know the extent of how fucked up this case is. and you making up shit isnt going to help or get him out of jail so i dont know why your even talking.
and the 13 year old...a bogus charge....HAH omg you have no clue what your talking about!!!
and how would YOU like to be a 12 year old girl (yes 12, not 13 as a lot of websites and such are saying) getting raped by a fat hairy 52 year old... yeah thats whats fucking bogus.
Stick around, Stan. I like you.
Unbelievable how the trolls come in. Nice bust. I use Tracksy what are you running?
-KingCast
The trolls just come with the territory. If I understand your question though, my answer is I just don't use any one tool -- I use a ton of them. I've always been about a broad spectrum of research tools. I only pay for two of the things I use, most of the time.
ETA -- AH! I got your question now -- I use statcounter, the paid version.
It is nice to finally see Baffa exposed for what he really is. You are right. It took 10 years to get him.
I wish I could tell you rest of what I know about him
does anyone know if this man has a past criminal record? This is too bizarre
fortheloveofgod:
I found some local civil court records re Baffa which I passed along to Steve. Apparently he and his partner/girlfriend--were successfully sued a few years ago. I suspect once the cops comb through his videos, even more charges will no doubt be filed against this creep. This guy apparently wasn't "just" a hypnotherapist, the kind you go to for help re smoking & weight control--he was a wanna be guru/cult leader.
Oh, and John Adams should know that all the warrant #s on Baffa's booking docket were different. According to the Gwinnett Courts website, he's up to 2 counts of Child Molestation, 2 counts of Rape, 3 counts of Aggravated Child Molestation, and 3 counts of Aggravated Sexual Battery.
It takes a couple of days for the paperwork to make its way into the database, so keep checking back.
http://www.gwinnettcourts.com/#p...affa/pcsform:1/
Apparently Denise Minnix is closely involved with the Baffa family.
http://www.gwinnettcourts.com/#c...a%2d00627%2d10/
And Fradek has changed its registry
as of 4-17-2008, to remove Minnix's name.
http://whois.domaintools.com/fradek.com
Too late. These folks need to visit Carmine in jail, put money on his canteen account, and stay off the Internet. They only embarrass themselves and in a way, make him look even worse with these hamhanded, dismissive defenses of the guy.
Thnx, Nancy and Tom, is there a reason you can't tell us all you know about Baffa?
I can answer that to some degree -- it may not all be relevant, for one thing. For another, not everything can be proven. And also, people who believe 150% in Carmine's innocence are reading, and why let them know what you know? That might provide opportunities for "clean-up," should it come to that.
Fortheoveofgod:
Just Google "Baffa" and use the gwinnettcourts link I posted, and a little deductive mouse-work, and you'll know as much as we do. And it's definitely enough to make ya go
"Hmmmmm"
Does anyone know if it is just he and his partner/girlfriend or are others involved with him in his seminars,etc?
From court yesterday April 18-http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/
gwinnett/stories/2008/04/18/baffa_041
9.html
By ANDRIA SIMMONS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/18/08
A police detective testified Friday that two young patients of Carmine
Baffa - a life coach who has hosted seminars across the nation - claim he
had sex with them as part of their treatment.
Diane King, a detective from the Gwinnett County Police Department, was thesole witness in a probable cause hearing for Baffa in Gwinnett magistratecourt.
Baffa is being held without bond at the Gwinnett jail on multiple charges
involving child molestation and rape. A magistrate judge found probable
cause to bind the charges over to Gwinnett County Superior Court.
King said the former patients, now 13 and 19, participated in separate
"cuddling sessions" with Baffa on an air mattress on his office floor duringprivate counseling sessions in 2006 and 2007.
Baffa somehow convinced the 19-year-old that she had been molested at ayounger age, King said.
Police said he posed as a hypnotist and psychotherapist. Many of his
patients were referred to him by licensed psychotherapists, but Baffa is nota licensed therapist, according to police.In a private session on New Years Day 2007, Baffa is accused of raping the19-year-old."She said she didn't want it to happen, but she felt she could not say noand was afraid of him," King said.
Afterward, Baffa allegedly called the 13-year-old girl into his office.
"He began cuddling with [the 13-year-old] and ignoring the 19-year-old,"King said.The 13-year-old girl reportedly was living with Baffa at the time.
King said the girl met Baffa after her parents began seeing him for marriage
counseling. The parents eventually split up, but Baffa urged them to bring their daughter for treatment when she started acting out, King said.
"He convinced the father that his daughter was suicidal and the only way he could save her life is if he would sign over legal guardianship," King said. The girl's parents agreed to sign a notarized letter giving him temporary custody, King said.
The 13-year-old then moved in with Baffa and his live-in business partner, Pamela Harris, at their Lawrenceville home in November 2006. Police said she continued to stay with them until March 2008, even after they moved to another house in Gainesville.
While the 13-year-old was living with Baffa, police said the two often had
sex. When the detective interviewed her in April, the girl reportedly told them she was in love with Baffa.
"She wanted to be with him and wanted to be his girlfriend," King said. Police said the catalyst for their investigation was Harris, who approached authorities in Forsyth County about possible sexual misconduct between Baffa and the 13-year-old. Harris allegedly told investigators she had witnessed one tryst between Baffa and the 13-year-old, and that afterward she had sex with Baffa in the girl's presence. When Harris confronted Baffa about the incident later, "she said he had an answer for everything," King said. "He told her it was part of [the
13-year-old's] therapy because she was sexually repressed."
Defense attorney Drew Findling said during his cross-examination Harris may have trumped up the allegations as part of a vendetta against his client. He questioned why Harris was not charged as a conspirator if she knew what was going on. King replied that Harris might be another victim.
i understand about the not giving out info part now, I have been reading to find out as much as I could about this case. Just read the above article and OMG, what the HELL? I am literally physically ill just reading this.
ok, if Harris had sex with Baffa in front of the 13 year old, why isn't she in jail as well? I am deeply troubled by this whole situation. I myself went to a training with him and had a couple of personal counseling sessions with him. I seriously pray to God that this isn't true not for Carmine's sake but for the sake of the little girl and the 19 year old. Life is hard enough. I seriously can't imagine him doing something like this. He truly seemed like a serious advocate for children and was extremely outspoken about stopping people from hurting children. God help him if he used his people skills for evil instead of good.
1:25
The only thing more unbelievable than him getting away with this for so long is the fact that he would want to do it.
Ick.
You all should read up one of Baffa's mentors, the guy who founded NLP as it is today. He was tried and acquitted for a cold-blooded murder. Note, he was acquitted -- but a lot of jurors had second thoughts later, and the acquittal has been blamed on a poor prosecution strategy.
I swear- many might not agree- but an ick- is tantamount to the worst thing you could discover at your house and never tell anyone about.. ick..
I knew Carmine a long time ago. Someone contacted me a couple years ago wanting to know if he was running a cult due to a family member's involvement with him. I Googled the phone number and verified it was a PI agency I was speaking with.
Regarding the person asking if others were involved. IME, that is not how Carmine works. He has reasonable explanations for everything and manages to get people to be OK with these explanations.
At the time I knew him, he had his live-in girlfriend convinced it was OK for him to be spending the night with another woman who was a surgeon; the surgeon was equally convinced this situation was OK. The majority of those around him were convinced it was OK that he had thrown a student through a wall after a training, an event witnessed directly by myself and his live-in girlfriend. I was considered to be "overreacting" because I thought these behaviours were inappropriate.
No one is "allowed" to question Carmine's behaviour and I was not forgiven for doing so.
He "explained" me away as a jilted women although we never had any type of sexual or romantic relationship. Scores of folks believed I was a psychotic who never saw the things I saw. This is how he operates - sowing discord through lies. He told me outrageous stuff about folks he knew or was involved with also. Part of his MO is to make sure those around him trust no one but him.
I was very fortunate during my involvement with Carmine that my daughter despised and distrusted him. She figured him out well before I did.
He is extremely charismatic and has reasonable explanations for things. I have no doubt he had others convinced his sexual activities were appropriate - part of "therapy".
As for those complaining Harris is an accomplice, she *did* turn him in eventually. Personally, knowing how charismatic Carmine can be, I'm not at all surprised it took her a while. He comes across as *very* different than he actually is, it can take a while to see that he is a sociopath.
Jackie, your open-ness to share your experience was brave, thank you.
However, with regard to Harris eventually turning him in- anyone that witnesses a minor having sex with an adult, and then proceeds to have sex with the guy in FRONT of the 13 year old, is an accomplice of something; and one sick chick, imo.
Blink34 & fortheloveofgod:
Welcome to the world of the justice system. The reason Harris (which may or may not be her real name--apparently Baffa and his close associates have a fondness for aliases) has not been charged is because she is the one who brought the complaint against Baffa that lead to the investigation. She has no doubt been given immunity in order to serve as State's Wittness. This is simply How It Works, as distasteful as it might be. Granted, she seems to have gone to the police more out of jealousy--it sounds like the 13 year old was ousting her from Baffa's affections, slimy as they may be. Apparently the 13 year old has confirmed all this, judging from the news reports, so it's not a "he said/she said" situation. Baffa raped a child--physically and mentally--and no dobut has plenty of victims under his belt.
I also expect there will be fraud charges filed against this douchebag, given his tendency to misrepresent himself as a PHD. According to court document, he has already been sued successfully in civil court.
From several accounts now surfacing on the web, Baffa seems to have been the prototypical "seducer" style pedophile, preying on parents going through divorce and putting himself between the parents and their children. I suspect his preferences were not just for young girls, judging from what I've read. He is a full-fledged con man and sociopath, as so many hard-core pedos prove to be.
As to Jckie's claims re Carmine Baffa working alone--there is evidence online that seems to suggest that is far from the case. If Steve & I can find these people with just Google, UseNet, the Georgia Secretary of State's Corporation online database & the Gwinnett Courts website, then
no doubt the Gwinnett police & GBI (if not the FBI) are leagues ahead of us, which is probably why these people have stopped posting here.
Denise Minnix (aka Denise Scarfone) is Carmine Baffa's sister-in-law, as near as I can tell. She's married to Rocky Scarfone (aka Joseph Baffa). They live in Suwanee, GA (less than 10 miles from Lawrenceville). They have some interesting legal history also.
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va...&c=whs&
id=10461
http://modern-folklore.blogspot....y-
scarfone.html
What is it with this field attracting sociopathic weirdos?
Junket:
Keep spelunking. It gets weirder.
Do tell...
Keeping in mind that Mr. Scarfone is Carmine Baffa's brother, here's some "spelunking" to keep you busy.
http://community.livejournal.com...ian/
240823.html
If you want to go spelunking, go to the link below. Just keep in mind that Mr. Scarfone is Carmine Baffa's brother.
http://community.livejournal.com...ian/
240823.html
One of the wildest, weirdest stories that I've read in a while - and I'm guessing that this may only be the beginning. My first impression is that Harris is a victim too, but that opinion may change. Homework responsibilities beckon first, then I'll attempt some research of my own.
Greetings to all.
I would like to take this time to reply to comments about myself and my family so as to assist you in your research.
I left home at the age of 11. would spend that next 6 years traveling the nation. Â I joined the airforce during the viet name War at 17, and received an honorable discharge, and went my own way. My contact with my family was always limited at best.
During my entire life, I had has what may be stated to be extremely limited contact with Carmine. And, in fact, it was always when he had a problem. Twice I had to have serious MINI MOB Wars (Capo Bianco in Astoria Queens, NY 1972 - A Flea Market Mafia Fence in 1982) defending him and what do you think I received after placing my life on the line? ARGUMENTS and FIGHTS!
In fact, I received a call in 1981 that he was in trouble, I donned a suit, flew RED EYE ONÂ MY DIME to FT Lauderdale, confronted the guy in question, put the fear of God into him, and did it in my own dime. That night I asked him to take me to the beach before going to the airport, he refused and we got into a fight.
Am I crazy here?
In 1990, he appeared in Atlanta at my old shop for 3 hours, the end of this resulted in a fight with him blaming the world, me and his mother for every thing that had ever gone wrong for him.
In the late 90's he contacted me and informed me he had some dispute online with some NLP guys who were wiseguys in sheep's cloths. Again I fell for it and got into it online and was ready to go and take care of business as a "brother" would until I discovered the facts just in time and dropped forever the notion that we had something in common at some time years ago.
(note, Denise was not involved in that event either)
In 1999/2000 I discovered he was using passages from a book I wrote, passing off some of the facts of my hardship as his as if it were he who lived my life and I sent some words FOR him through email. I received no reply but the writings were removed.
Thus I have had contact with Carmine only five times in the past 40 years.
When I discovered he was living in GA... IN MY OWN COMMUNITY ... I did not look him up and was not happy.
My mother in law called my wife the other day and says is that rocks brother??
I was and am pissed off. I have worked hard for twenty years to build my life and now I have to be in the middle of something that has zip to do with me or mine.
Why in the hell do you think I left home at 11? Always trying to stay as far from "family" as I could!
Now, for the FRADEK.com post. it was NOT PLACED BY DENISE OR I. I know who did it and was pissed off and then I saw a post from BRITISHAIKIDO.COM and was again pissed off. That is my site! I have since dropped the ability for people to set up email accounts on both FRADEK and British Aikido as well as 50 other sites I have built.
reefshow.com
britishaikido.com
youthofamerica.com
are a few of the sites that represent me.
The information on the links you have simply are incorrect. Just go to youthofamerica.com. all links are there. we host all kinds of clients, deliverence to baptist to business.
If you want to read what i wrote about scientology go http://youthofamerica.org/scientology/
There are no MULTI LEVEL anything. the ministry I operated has hundreds of awards letters and more.
WE OPERATE A HOSTING CONCERN WITH 45 AWARDS GOING ON 13 years. We are listed as the admin for hundreds of sites .. that is part of what we do. We also allowed HUNDREDS of users to host their own sites. this is america? is it not? you can have your own view..
The FRADEK site I built for a client, free email accounts were part of the site.. no more...
Now, for me.
LASTSTOPHELL.COM - YOURGOINGTOHELL.COM and the other sites affiliated with same belong to an individual who operates watchmanradio.com. an extreme right wing biblical believer who I bnever met. He has used services we offer since 1999. We host many sites, over 2000. We allow free speech. I personally received lots of flack because I was once listed as admin contact, like we are on most of our clients websites.
But i have not, nor ever had, any partnership or ever contribited to his site, i do not peruse or read or visit the site, we simply host that sites along with 8 other DELIVERANCE sites for clients.
Now for me, most of ever you would like to know is already on line. youthofamerica.com has over 10,000 pages written by myself. my book about my life is online (Father Figure) Â for which i won several awards, including the o-Georgia award, it can be found at recordyourbooks.com, videorecordingstudio.com or musicrecordingstudio.com.
I am a master mechanic, master jeweler and watch maker, published writer, journalist and more. I have my share of action including REAL MOB WARS (5), i have operated a youth ministry (10 years).
I am all over the web and am an internet expert who does not shy from who I am.
One more item, I have been in heated battle for ten years with an individual i allege stole my book and won two of three battles in ( Federal99-2002 and World Court 20001-2002). I am currently in a third battle with same.
I have sued and been sued for my writing and speech over 15 times and have been lucky to have out-right won or received settlement in everyone of them.
I have written right wing and left wing and middle of the road articles and covered news subjects as diverse as I am. Baptist Convention, interop-netword and Dekalb County Sheriffs Election are a few..
I write what i feel i must write........
So, If you have any questions please feel free to ask them. I prefer the email listed herein because I am always so busy.
As far as Carmine. Though I am interested in discovering what really happened because it is confusing as to the players, I plan to do nothing my patience was lost long ago...
rock
Dude, this is not the time or the place for self promotion.
And, P.S., no one believes you.
Oh, Mr. Willoughby, don't you know that if he writes it, it must be true? (wink, wink)
I read a comment from a fan of Rock's on another site, which directed readers to the many, many places "Rock" has posted drivel after drop of drivel. The fan said, "Read what has been written, so you know the truth."
Honestly. Just because it is written (over and over again, in this case) on the 'net, it must be true? Factual? If something cannot be corroborated or verified with independent sources, I'm not buying.
Whomever "Rock" thinks stole his book must be hard up for writing material. If Rock's comment is any indication of how he writes, I can't see that there is anything to fight over. The thief must be illiterate, 'cause Rock is teetering on the edge of the "incomprehensible writing" precipice himself.
Rock- this isnt about advertisement. NO one asked you about your online businesses or whatever you were talking about.
Jackie- Wow, where have you been?? It seems you know alot about Carmine and since you saw him assault one of his clients i think you should bring that information to the police, any and everything is going to help get him locked up forever, i think it could be useful.
This is just the beginning of the end of carmine baffa, there is so much more evidence, and so many more victims who never thought they were even victims untill people started speaking out.
carmine is a genious, a sick genious. He can convince anyone that ANYTHING is ok....in certain contexts. i mean anything. he called me chicken shit because i was verry depressed but i hadent comitted suicide yet. talk about a fucking psycho.
anyways. thats just one thing, by one person, im wondering how many of us there are ......
This is just getting crazier and crazier. I think speculating is all anyone can do right now. I'll be glad when actual facts come out in court. My heart goes out to the people that are hurt because of this. I pray justice is served. I have looked at all this stuff people keep referring to and find it to be (aside from Jackie) a bunch of he said/she said. Aside from Jackie, no one is saying anything real, just a bunch of carmine fanatics giving sorda facts on one side and anti-carmines giving sorda facts on the other. The detective on the stand also was pretty certain of what she was saying and that she could back it up. Let's pray (for those of you who believe in prayer) for the 13 and 19 year old. This is a sad and pitiful mess.
omg and stansmallz-thank you for telling real facts as well. He reallly can make the unreasonable sound reasonable. That's two now, that have come forward, please, anyone else with actual real life experience with him contact the police. "Therapy" is not the place for mind games. The damage from this sort of behavior is real and life altering.
stansmallz, you too, as well have actual facts...didn't mean to leave you out. I hope every person who has had to deal with things of this nature comes forward. I really didn't want this to be true, but it's looking more and more like it is. Please call the police and tell them if you have been hurt by this man. If you have been his prey let it be known. It is important to look at the real facts and recognize when things aren't right even if they may have been "explained" to be right at the time.
i thought my first message about stansmallz didn't go through, didn't mean to be redundant
Yeah, understood. I've done all I can for now. Just waiting for the verdict.
I went and looked up this supposed "O, Georgia!" Award.
As I suspected, its not what it appears to be. I won't come out and call it a scam, but I will call it a "dubious achievement".
Any "award" that seems to consist of being reprinted in a "best of" anthology with 60+ contributors, edited by no one you've ever heard of and published by a tiny vanity-style press isn't much to crow about.
http://www.barnesplace.com/bpboy...ll-in-
hard.html
I'm reminded of an article by Dave Barry
http://www.windpublications.org/...ams/D-
Barry.htm
Love that video.
"Communication is a full body activity....."
What a slickster....
Yah, may be some bodies he's about to come into contact with that will be communicating a few things with him..... and they might invade his personal space to do so.
willobee.. i placed a link to the true story that won the award.. let me know if u like it or not...it is titled: A Bonding Of Oaken Men.
http://www.youthofamerica.com/
a_...f_oaken_men.htm
Dude. You can't spell. You can barely string sentences together. You didn't win a Pultizer Prize or a Newberry Medal or an American Book Award or an Edgar or the PEN Award or the National Book Award or the Hugo or the Nebula or the World Fantasy Award or the O. Henry or the Faulker or the Pushcart Prize or the Quill or the Spur or the Whitbread or the Caldecot Medal. Hell, you didn't even win the bogus Writers of the Future Award the Scientologists hand out. You "won" some podunk regional "award" that can only be found mentioned in a handful of places online, most of them created by you.
So, no, I'm not going to read your excerpt/story.
there's something creepy going on with the brother. What an odd response to this whole thing
You've got that right! His brother's in jail on serious charges, yet his postings are all about him.
I've poked around on his various web sites and he claims to minister to troubled youth. There's a frighteningly familiar scenario.
Hi Rock,
You might remember me from the last time Carmine embarrassed you.
I think it is a shame he is dragging your family through another episode.
Folks, I don't personally know Rocky.
I have bumped heads with him once. Most of you won't understand his mindset because it is very old school.
I was one of the guys from the late 90's that was giving Carmine a hard time. Rocky was defending his brother. I understand that. It got pretty heated.
Carmine was attacking some real good people and making some outrageous claims. When we called him on it he did what any pretender might do. he ran to hide behind the real deal for protection.
We basically drove him off of the internet. Since 2000 he has not really posted on the internet because of the ass whipping we gave him.
The difference is that Rock understands the rules. You don't involve the innocent in your battles. That is why you could be involved in the mob life and never have to worry about your family being harmed. They might shoot you but they would never bother your wife and kids.
It is an old school attitude that is part of the past now. I was talking to a justice department friend of mine and he actually longs for the days of the old time mafia. 
Is Rock a blatant self promoter?...Yes
Is he a bit abrasive? ...Yes
Is he a little scary? ...maybe
I have attended Carmine's seminars. I heard the stories he would tell. years later I heard those SAME stories being told by Rocky on a video from one of his sites.
I was there when everything happened to Jackie and helped her get out of town. I was there the night Baffa threw into the wall so hard the the sheet rock busted. The guy was maybe 130 pounds. Baffa was over 200.
There is so much more....
The difference is that no matter what you think of Carmine, you can't slop that onto his family. That is just not fair.
Like I said, I got into it with Rocky ii the late 90's. The difference is that he always acted out of a code that includes honor. I have no doubt that if I threatened his family that he would kindly rearrange some of my body parts.
I understand the rules so I can also respect that.
In the end, Rock respected me for not backing down. I thought I had buried Carmine but now I realize that all I did was force his activities underground.
The sick part is that he was arrested less that 1 mile from my house!
The truth is that I failed. I am not sure that there is anything you can do to stop someone like Carmine. Hopefully you can put them in a place where he will get the same treatment and the same choices he seems to have given the 13 year old girl.
Rock is a little rough around the edges from what I have heard. His actions though are totally understandable.
So lets back off the family and lets focus on the guy accused of these crimes. I have a feeling there are many more women out there. The focus should be on getting them to come forward if there are.
Rock...we need to meet sometime.
I agree with Tom, and I'm the site owner.
Rock's post does seem odd to many, and I understand why. But to me, this is the part of what he said that matters: "As far as Carmine. Though I am interested in discovering what really happened because it is confusing as to the players, I plan to do nothing my patience was lost long ago..."
To me, that's Rock admitting that while as Carmine's brother he's trying to withhold judgment, he doesn't have the patience to deal with Carmine anymore.
My own brother could sometimes be a thug. A violent man who could do amoral things if he was under the influence. But he loved his family and he never tried to hurt any one of us. Still, my parents lost their patience at times, and more than once, they let him sit in jail. I loved my brother, but as he got older, I was even sometimes afraid of him. I doubt Rock's afraid of anything, but I can still almost see what he's saying.
I think someone who knew Carmine well or who was acting completely without Rock's knowledge probably left that message where they put fradek.com in their user info.
I'd like it, as the site owner and writer of the post, if folks would just move on. I'm especially interested in hearing from anyone else who has had run-ins with Carmine. Rock said his piece, and he made it clear at the end of his post where he was at. So leave him be.
Steve
Clarification: I wasn't claiming Carmine worked alone. Carmine always has a bevy of chicks doing sales for him, acting as cheerleaders, etc.
I was claiming most of those chicks are hoodwinked by him. When they get a clue, they leave. He always has new ones on tap to step in. And he explains away the old ones.
I just happened to be one that got a clue rather faster than some of them do.
He is very, very persuasive. I met him on the apn newsgroup and we began talking on the phone as he was "training" me in NLP. A couple months later, I sold a training for him in NJ - ran it, organized it, sold it and LOST money doing so. A few months later than that, I freaking left my business and moved across the country to work for him. I also gave him hundreds of hours of editing and web development services - and when we had our falling out, he just stole all that work and stuck it on his own site.
I bought TONS of crap from the guy - swallowed it whole. I just didn't happen to buy him cheating on his then live-in girlfriend (who he was calling his "wife") nor throwing a student through a wall at a training.
I am *quite* serious when I say most of those surrounding him bought very lame-ass excuses for these behaviors.
One of the weird things in the news reports is calling him a fake hypnotist. Well, he isn't fake at all. I could spend 5 or 6 hours on the phone with him and have amnesia for the entire conversation. It took me over a year to untangle my head from the crap he put in there.
Same here. Looking back at any conversations with him they are all just a big blur. I think he did that intentionally. I know he did. And they are calling him a fake because he has no actuall degree in hypnotism or psychotherapy. So to the police, who have never had sessions with him, beleive that he is a fake. Which I am fine with, all it means to me is longer prison time.
Jackie,
Its Laura, e-mail me when you get a chance.
Thanks.
Good News....They are going for a life sentence for this guy!
I urge anyone with any information about him to come forward. Anyone who has been victimized in any way need to contact the Detective in charge.
One thing I did not think about was that the girl is 12 now. That means that she was 10 when this all started.
I know some of you are scared of Baffa. I know some just want to put their experience with him behind them and forget all about it. Some of you might even be embarrassed. I understand that.
Personally, I could not sleep at might knowing he was out there doing this to another 10 year old girl....could you?
Make the call and protect a child
Diane King at 770-513-5356
Anyone know what's happening with the girlfriend?
As of now she is being considered another victim. Based on my experience I would agree.
I think Tom is correct that Carmine's girlfriend was a victim. I'd guess that just based on my own past experiences with Carmine. I've known two of his ex-girlfriends and they were most definitly victims.
It has come to my attention that there are a LOT of folks needing to "recover" from Carmine. I have started a Google Group for people to discuss their experiences with Carmine: http://groups.google.com/group/c...armine-
recovery
This is a closed group, only those who've been involved with Carmine directly are eligible to join. It's not for cops or investigators, not for folks just following the soap opera, but for people who knew him who need to talk about it.
I know a lot of the victims myself. If I don't know you, you'll have to email me and explain who you are, how you knew Carmine, and why you want to join. Anyone who wants to join should send email to carmine-recovery@gmail.com
Please spread the word that this group exists to any victims of Carmine that you know.
Oops, the email address above is incorrect.
The correct address is carmine-recovery@googlegroups.com
OK, *that* email address is wrong too. Sorry folks.
To join the group, email *me* at jpatti@ccil.org and I will add your email.
After you join, you can post either at the URL given above or via sending email to carmine-recovery@googlegroups.com
Thanks.
Jackie Patti, is an implausible contrast of facts and fiction. She actually demonstrates, through her own writing and postings, that she can not separate one from the other. While Jackie Patti boasts of helping others through NLP and Hypnotism on NLP Groups, websites, blogs and forums, her posts about rape, dominance, bondage and lesbianism offer an unknown and scary proposition to both men,woman and children who have utilized or may utilize her services..
Jackie Patti is a self-professed Sadist Dyke (her words) who dislikes men and fantasizes about violently and graphically raping men (her words).
Jackie Patti posting that "her mind was screwed up by Carmine" and alleging there was something wrong with carmine "having sex with a woman surgeon while living with another woman", is absurd when you read her own posts. Thus this is another NLP attempt to wiggle herself into the fray// but WHY we must ask..
Is it not time for all of us TO WAKE UP AND ALSO QUESTION the core foundation of the allegations? NLP!
Is it not time to focus on all the individuals who can be found to be part of the picture here!
Is it not time to question men like Tom Vizzini and woman like Pamela Harris and Jackie-Patti?
Are not all of them PRACTICING the same programming as Carmine was?
Are you aware that Ross Jeffries uses NLP to offer what many see as DATE RAPE KITS on CD, DVD and Seminars.
That Tom Vizzini is actually promoting the same for money?
IS THIS NOT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK?
JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH HARMING PEOPLE DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE INNOCENT.
IF YOU TRULY CARE, LETS GET TO THE CORE FOUNDATION THAT LED TO THIS MISERY and the PEOPLE who are in reality just as responsible ..
WHERE ARE THOSE THAT WOULD DEMAND THAT NLP AND OTHER TYPE Mind Coaching -- or whatever else that Jackie, Carmine, Kaelin, Laura , Jeffries, Vizzini, McFarland, Pamela Harris, Colin Harris and others call it -- be LICENSED??
imagine that you have Jackie Patti COUNCELING WOMAN ... YOU JUST HAVE TO READ THE FACTS FOLKS!
visit nlpfraud.com for an exploration and expose of all the figures and characters in this case.
I dont sell NLP so I would appreciate you keeping me out of this. I also happen to agree with what you said about licensing it seems any crazy person can sell this crap! I dont know who you are but you can try to get your message across without tearing others down, just a thought.
There is a HUGE difference in having multiple partners consensually and just cheating on someone. I don't attach ethics to what people wish to do with their genitals, but I do make judgments about people who lie to those they are close to.
I live at the center of a square mile that is inhabited by no one but myself, my husband and some cats, chickens and cows. I'm also a lot older and less energetic so polygamy is more a theory than a lifestyle.
Hubby is not into BDSM, so that is more of a theory than an actual activity either. Announcing that I'm into it is a bit lame given that anyone who Googles my name can find that out in as much detail as they like. I have never been ashamed of who I am.
I have nothing to do with NLP or hypnosis, in fact, I have a phobia of both.
My husband drives a truck over-the-road. That was also my most recent career until my myocardial infarction and subsequent bypass. I don't think the truck was ever exposed to either hypnosis or sadism by me. 
I can't go back to it as I'm on insulin and it's illegal to use a CDL on insulin. I do some maintenance work for old web customers but am otherwise still disabled from surgery. Not sure what my next career will be, but it's certain it won't be NLP-related.
All of this information is also easily available by Googling for my name. I'm not hiding anything.
The cats tend to sleep piled in my bed so I seriously doubt they fear my sadism too much. Hubby doesn't seem to fear either my "man-hating" or my sadism either as he does the same as the cats.
I live an incredibly dull and boring life in which most of what I do is study diabetes and heart disease, raise chickens and vegetables, and experiment in the kitchen a lot.
IMO, it's kind of hard to paint me as a terribly controversial person as I'm awfully boring.
Only trained, licensed professionals should be allowed to "tinker with the minds" of others. I truly feel for all those that have been hurt.
Steve and Nancy: Do some "spelunking" and I think you'll be surprised as to who "Jack Patrick" appears to be....
Jack Patrick's homepage is another corporatehosting.org (207.44.244.37) site just like fradek.com, youthofamerica.com and britishaikido.com
The problem with only allowing licensed professionals to effect the minds of others is... that would require all of us to be unable to speak to each other at all! If hubby calls and tells me he had a bad day and I'm encouraging and supportive and he feels better afterwards, I have "tinkered with his mind". There's not a clearcut line between being supportive, giving advice, etc.
As for who put up that page... well, it's obviously a supporter of Carmine - who else would want to attack us? I have *nothing* else in common with the other folks being attacked but Carmine.
I don't have any enemies myself. Not that everyone likes me or such, but there's no people I've fucked over that might want to come after me for revenge.
I find it rather amusing - I went to the page and just cracked up laughing. I've never deleted those posts from Google or Deja News before Google, so it's pretty obvious I'm not particularly ashamed of any of that stuff.
The only posts I've ever deleted were about Carmine, when he attacked me on the newsgroup and I finally went public with my accusations in my own defense.
*That* is something I'm ashamed of, that I was so stupid as to fall for his bullshit.
I also found it awkward later when Ross and Tom had their falling out with Carmine that things I had said were brought into the argument. I never approved of what Ross sells and don't know him very well, though I'm pretty sure he never believed I did approve. And while I like Tom fine in person, I don't much like his behavior online and don't wish to be associated with it.
I met my best friend besides hubby online almost 17 years ago, and had been online for some time when I did. The Carmine posts are the *only* thing I've ever deleted.
My life is out there. I'm neither ashamed of who I am nor the road it took to get here. I like me.
Anyone wants to know all about me, it'll take you *weeks* to sort through my writing. I'm prolific and opinionated.
And if you google me, you'll see I've been pretty darned boring for some time. I post about low-carb dieting, diabetes, heart disease, medications for those diseases, nutrition. My posts have lots of personal stuff intertwined about my daughter, my husband, my cats, my chickens, my garden and my experiences driving a truck.
I'm just not that interesting unless you have diabetes and/or heart disease or a deep interest in nutrition. I'm a pretty boring, noncontroversial person. You have to go back at least a decade to find anything very controversial about me - that's when the crap with Carmine occured.
I admit to feeling vindicated by Carmine's arrest. While I didn't know he was a child molester, I did know he was a highly unethical individual, so am not particularly surprised.
Carmine told people our falling out occurred because I was psychotic, I was a stalker, I was pissed that he didn't sleep with me and therefore everything I had to say was bullshit.
This is largely the tactics being taken by the guy attacking us on that web site, which just cracks me up. Attack and discredit all the witnesses - but there's just too damned many of us! The only thing we all have in common is *Carmine*.
Yeah, I'm into BDSM, I retain a strong interest even if my current life circumstances don't allow for actual practice anymore. Regardless of anyone's opinion about BDSM, even if you believe I am a terribly bad person for being turned on by it, it has exactly *zero* to do with whether or not Carmine is a child molester.
Did all Carmine's victims just have it coming? What exactly did a 13 year old girl do that justified being raped by her legal guardian, a person she loved and trusted? How did she fuck him over to deserve that?
Because this story has brought a lot of Carmine's victims out of the woodwork, because I've received emails directly from victims and from others who have related to me stories about his victim's experiences, I felt it was useful to reach out to folks.
My "agenda" is this - it is very difficult to explain to an outsider what went on with Carmine. It was a very cult-like environment and Carmine ensured that none of us trust each other by the stories he told each of us "confidentially" about the others.
Others who've been there "get it". We can talk to each other and comprehend what happened to each other - if we can just get past the distrust he installed in us.
And as far as I can tell, his victims have different problems today. For example, I am completely *over* having any fear of Carmine himself. Others aren't. I retain a weird phobia about both NLP and hypnosis that I haven't seen in others. I expect we can share with each other the bits of healing we have experienced, the ways we have recovered, and help each other recover a bit.
If someone googles my name *and* Carmine's, you'll find I spent an entire day last week posting to get the word out about the recovery group.
The recovery group and cooperating with the detectives myself are the only items on my agenda wrt to Carmine.
I don't really give a damn what anyone thinks about Carmine, if they want to protect him or defend him or whatnot. I'm not interested in discussing it. If you like him and believe he's gotten a bad rap cause his victims are all horrible people conspiring against him, more power to you. I have neither the time nor energy to waste trying to change your mind.
But if you wake up from that delusion, email me if you want to join the support group at jpatti@ccil.org
22 MORE COUNTS AGAINST BAFFA April 28 2008
ATLANTA -- The Cobb County Police Department's Crimes Against Children Unit is investigating a sexual assault case that occurred at 2055 South Park Place in Atlanta.
Gwinnett Police Investigators of the Special Victims Unit arrested Mr. Baffa without incident on April 9.
Police have charged Carmine Baffa, 52, of Gainesville with 22 counts of sexual related offenses that occurred between October 2006 to March 2008.
Baffa held "self help" training at the hotel entitled Human Performance.
In the past, Baffa’s seminars were named Mindsight, but later changed to Precious Video Productions.
Preliminary investigation showed that Baffa posed as a hypnotist and psychotherapist. In the past, he hosted seminars nationally and in the Atlanta area which focused on life improvement.
Baffa has held these seminars at area hotels around Gwinnett and Cobb Counties. He subsequently offered individual coaching sessions with adults and children.
Mr. Baffa would conduct his therapy sessions at his former Lawrenceville home where a 13 year old girl and a 19 year old woman told investigators they were raped by Baffa.
At this time, there are four adult victims and one juvenile victim.
Baffa is also accused of raping a 13-year-old girl and a 19-year-old woman at some therapy sessions in Gwinnett County. The alleged attacks on the 13-year-old took place between Aug.1, 2006 and July 31, 2007, police said. The alleged attacks on the 19-year-old took place in the fall of 2006 and early 2007, according to investigators.
Anyone who feel they were victimized by Baffa in Cobb County should contact the Cobb County Police Department's Crimes Against Children Unit at 770-801-3470.
.
Dear Jackie and all others,
The sites nlpfraud.com and CarmineBaffa.com initially posted as the homepages of "Jack Patrick" are in fact hosted by corporatehosting.org which is owned by Rock Scarfone (alias Joseph Baffa), Carmine's brother. Lend no credence to the rambling crap that is posted there with its misspellings and grammatical errors.
He has now taken down the sites since his superficial attempt at posting that BS has been exposed.
You are survivors and should take comfort that you have escaped the clutches of someone who is truly evil. We should hope and pray that the other victims can be rescued and can go forward to lead productive lives.
???? now sir junket, i have attempted to stay out of the fray. we host lots of sites,. i discovered the site and had it taken down.. if you want to persist be it so.. but i cannot be responcible for what others post
Personally, I don't care who posted it. No skin off my nose either way.
I should've saved it though as I thought it was funny and my husband hasn't seen it yet.
Laura. I remember you. I met you when you came to Atlanta in 1992. I have seen carmine only once since then and that was 1995 for several hours. I also know that you were a perfect individual if there ever could be one.
Now, as for Carmine. He has made his bed. THIS IS MY SECOND TIME WRITING THIS.
I also have to say that I closed the site on the grounds of terms of service.
But when i read above that it was taken down due to the fact it is hosted on one of my servers, well, i automatically felt that I should allow it to go back up.
after all, it was NOT, as far as I could read, in DEFENSE of Carmine, rather in OFFENSE OF NLP and those who are currently practising
Yes, it seemed to be going towards a expose' of NLP and the people associated with the events that are happening.
I do not know jackie pattie, but it was not bs what I read! I was flabbergasted!
BTW:
JACK PATRICK - JACKIE PATTI ...
I figured that one out as soon as I read the Jackie Patti entries. and, i was privy to two other pages yet to be placed.. and then I read about ROSS JEFFRIES site, man, it was all crazy to say the least!!
I have to say I agreed with the opening of nlpfraud.com...licensing should be required for anything associated with NLP type programs.
This is not about one bad apple, it is about a whole crate!
anyhow, i, once again, and for the last time, say email me if you have a question rather than making assumptions ..
rock
lsyf@lsyf.com
Yeah, Carmine tried to claim that too, said I posted the attacks he made on me, that I had busted into his AOL account and impersonated him. I assume he doesn't have internet access in Gwinett Jail, else I'd think he posted the above.
Yeah, I'm real likely to attack myself. Whatever.
If I want to subject myself to masochism, I've got several grand worth of whips here, not to mention a few hundred other BDSM toys. I hardly need to "dominate" myself via a web site. That's just silly.
And you can be as shocked as you like, d00d. As I said, my life is an open book - anyone can Google me. I'm not hiding. I've been in two documentaries on the topic, so am rather obviously not shy about it!
But... posting about me is posting about a greying, fat, postmenopausal lady with too many cats recovering from a bypass amongst the Mennonites and Amish in rural PA. I've long ceased being a young, kinky lesbian chick that you can "ain't it awful" about. That stuff is all old news.
And it's got squat to do with NLP and even less to do with Carmine being an accused rapist and child molester.
Distraction is a lame tactic.
And accusing me of attacking myself is just so unoriginal since your brother beat you to it.
I think I'm done with this.
man you are crazy, i am not accusing you of attecking you, in fact, what i am asaying is the the owner of the site used that as a pun..
but, here you say you are sure carmine raped a girl.. maybe yes maybe no, but you should not be the one talking about it..
that is like having the cat watching the mouse...
if i wanted to post i could use one of a hundred ns name servers that do not point to me.. or are still believing that all men are stupid
but the fact remains, a woman who has professed the violent rape of a man as a fantasy, and the way you went into detail, combined with the fact you have say you do not like men, mena sthat you should be going to a head shrink
OH! forget the fact you want to utilze HUSBAND as an anchor.. or what ever you nlp feaks call them, to make folks belive your bs
so, wake up and go get a job
rock
"There is a HUGE difference in having multiple partners consensually and just cheating on someone."
I thought i saw a post where Jackie said that Carmine went to bed with a surgeon and his live in approved it>?
and that I AM NOT HIDING ANYTHING bs?
it is simple to use that there nlp sht like saying wow, look at me, that is me!
YOU ADVERTISED YOUR SELF AS A HYPNOTIST AND NLP PRO!
Look, I did not post the site in question. But as I read the pages, which I saved copies of before suspending the account, I see something different.
1) Folks who are associated with NLP and programs that are NLP spin-offs are advertising that a man can get any woman in bed using their programs.
2) I read that every-day people can simply attend a group of trainings and then begin messing with peoples heads.
3) i read that nearly every phobia, mental problem, and life deficit can be cured with NLP or NLP programs.
Now, i am luMping all these as simple as I can. but the fact is, NLP is dangerous in the wrong hands.. or rather mind.
NO?
and then to read that the people who were active members of the group, or WERE ACTIVE AND ACTIVELY POSTING THEIR SERVICES only a few weeks ago, are now leading the charge..
yes, you can flame me, but there is still something wrong with participants claiming brain washing AND THAT THEIR MINDS WERE ALL FREAKED OUT (ESPECIALLY SOMEONE LIKE JACKIE, WHOSE YEARS OF POSTINGS SHOW A WOMAN IN TOTAL ABSOLUTE CONTROL) until they get in an argument about who owns the house and then go to the police with the terrible news that we are reading here!
HEY, I WAS BRAIN WASHED .. WHILE BEING THE MANAGER OF THE COMPANY,OWNING THE BANK ACCOUNTS, SETTING UP THE SEMINARS, AND I WAS CONVENIENTLY ABSENT WHEN ALL THE Sht happened! ??
as far as Jackie, I am not messenger nor critic. But I have been required to post herein.
after reading her posts herein this blog, right above, and then discovering the posting on nlpfraud, then going and performing a search, I have to say, there is day and night..
I have no right to judge, and i am not. I am not a gay basher, and ones fantasies are ones fantasies..but when combined PUBLIC POSTINGS AND with events we are reading, and then with NLP, well, that is the problem. and if no one sees that then expect to discover there are others out there that are being harmed by others.
IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I WRITE SEND ME AN EMAIL...
Rock I have to completely disagree with the direction you have chosen.
Sure you could try and slam NLP. I certainly think it is a flawed tool.
You can slam Jackie and Laura. Neither of them are perfect people.
You can even slam me.
None of that will have anything to do with what Carmine is accused of.
Just last night it was reported that 5 more women have come forward. now there are 22 more counts in Cobb county.
Carmine is now accused of raping 7 women if I am counting correctly. One of the was 11 at the time.
Carmine is the problem here and no amount of other accussasions or distractions are going to change that .
I am getting curious about whether Rocks first post and these following posts are from the same IP adress. They do seem very different in style and spelling ability.
Tom
The first post from Rock came from:
71.91.139.**
The 4/29/08 post made at 12:04 a.m. comes from the same IP. The rest of the posts come from:
24.240.17.**
I don't like the direction this discussion is heading, but I'm not ready to print out those IPs completely yet, just out of fairness.
what I am saying here tom is that when I discovered the web page i took it down. all someone had to do was ask...
fradek.com is not our site, in fact they still owe us money
as far as promotinmg my self, that was not what that post was about, it was to show what sites were ours and what were others, to introduce myself and to allow any one to ask me questions.
i am NOT looking for any business..
digression is what is occurring here....
I care less what anyone is doing, but if I am drawn into this then i have to hit back.
so, if anyone discovers writing with our main server addy just let me know,
we hjave other name server and will keepo an eye, but it is awefully hard to catch them before they are launched..
end of story
hagd
rock14
Good job. You have done a great job of exposing the deceivers and rapists.
Baffa should get some serious jail time for this.
Keep it up!
I was a student of Carmine's many years ago. (I remember you Laura and Tom, if you're the Tom I'm thinking of) Using NLP he helped me so much in many ways, but I stopped going to his classes and meetings because it was feeling so cult like. I am deeply saddened by the (alleged) crimes he committed, but not the least bit surprised. He always made me feel extremely uncomfortable during private sessions and always tried to elicit sexual feelings during "therapy". I think most any woman who ever had a session with him can picture him sexually abusing someone in that context and try to convince them that it was therapeutic. Does anyone else find it disturbingly ironic that he refers to psychotherapists as psycho-the-rapist?
I dont find it weird at all. He used that term soo many times. It was his way of confessing what he was doing without directly confronting himself. Anything he accused others of doing, im sure he has a personal story relatable to it. Hes so smart, like he would confess things but make it seem that someone else had done it. Hes from another fcuking planet i tell you.
Didn't mean to repeat myself, but did anyone else that was affiliated with him notice that at all?
One of the women who was repeatedly raped by Carmine is in my family.
Let's just say he will not live past the age of 55 in jail. Too bad I never had a chance to put a bullet in him personally.
Maybe he will actually enjoy getting gang raped by a bunch of men.
Rocky boy...better tell your bro to make his peace with whoever he thinks his maker is because he will not be alive long. Seriously.
God may have mercy on him, we will not.
If he happens to get out, there are those of us who will go hunting. Who knows, maybe an accident in the court house will be arranged at the trial.
Oh, and that little bitch Pamela who was his assistant - you helped the monster commit his acts. You will answer as well.
I used to think we were all created equal. Now it it clear that there are monsters and those who live to eliminate monsters.
This is my first and last post.
Understandably harsh words and I'm sorry that your family has been so deeply hurt. I don't think this guy will ever again see the light of day. Besides, he wouldn't be worth going to jail for. I'm a strong believer in jailhouse justice. He'll go the way of Jeffrey Dahmer, mark my words.
I am with Junket, Hunter. I am so sorry for your family's pain. I'm thinking justice will be served as well. Carma style. What goes around comes around and criminals have their own justice system for those who harm children.
Wow, Hunter really put a stop to all that ridiculous bickering with his reality check, didn't he?
I am speaking of the rock or rock wanna be ravings and argument involving Jackie
I hope it didn't put an end to people standing for each other to help them recover from Carmine's brainwashing.
Hunter,
I have been celebrating Carmine's arrest ever since I heard about it. One of the things I have been so happy about is the fact that the weasel didn't take his own life when the police came to get him. I am glad that he wasn't the victim of some random car crash.
It is so important for so many people to see Carmine hauled into court to ANSWER for his behavior, to have to FACE himself.
Despite your unbelievable pain and anger, which is completely justified, I do hope that for the sake of your family, and for so many others who've been hurt and who are watching events unfold, that the course of justice will not be, um, interrupted.
I, for one, hope someday to have a copy of the trial transcripts in my hands so I can read, sentence by sentence and word for word, of his journey out of civil society and into the slammer.
Then, once he's settled into his new home, may other forms of justice that come his way prevail.
amen
I did take one training with Carmine Baffa or whoever the hell he really is. There were highly positive reviews in the NLP community internet postings that made him sound as if he were a preternaturally gifted genius. Based on the collective judgement, or apalling lack of judgement, of the NLP know it alls, I paid up and went to a five day event in Illinois.
It was impossible to believe that this narcissistic freak, there is no other way to describe him but an ego engorged freak, could be held in such esteem by people who pretended to be knowledgeable of NLP, life, and the ways of the world.
The man was so grossly, flamingly incongruent, so hair raisingly sociopathic, you would have to be shit stupid beyond all description NOT to immediately get what he was all about and where he was coming from.
I think it is a worrisome indication of how bad, how crappy, how degenerate and piss poor much of the NLP community standards are that they could not see this genetic mistake for what he was and condemmn him instantly.
What then IS up with NLP. This so called breakthrough transformative technology that has given us a Richard Bandler who was involved in the most doubt inspiring scandal one could imagine ? IF NLP works so brilliantly, how and why does it produce such low quality outcomes ?
IF NLP trains its practitioners to have such exquisite congruity skills, how in freaking hell did no one pick up on this years ago when it was more than apparant that Carmine Baffa was a disturbed sociopath ?
One might ask the same thing about the sainted Jack Rosenberg who "transformed" into Werner Erhard, invented some ghastly bullshit called the Landmark Forum, was accused of raping his own daughter by a second daughter who revealed this on national television...
Does no one see a pattern here with this tinhorn messiahs ? Are we all blind sheep ? Can anyone se things for what they are BEFORE the dam breaks and lives are ruined ?
Wolfgang, Sociopaths pick their prey. They aren't stupid. They are smart and evil. The individuals who are hurt by these type of people are already having problems and looking for answers. If someone presents an answer in a way that looks halfway decent, a lot of people are at least willing to give it a try. You did. We aren't all blind sheep, but a sociopath is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The NLP community at large seems to have disassociated itself with Carmine 10 years ago. A sociopath will take a person's weakness and use it to their advantage because they have no conscience. It is so sad that there are many people who are lost and hurting and looking for answers and these predators view them as prey. Humankind as a whole needs to start standing for one another and helping one another and learning to love one another and then a predator won't have damaged people looking for answers. Calling these people stupid is so incredibly offensive. These are brave people who are trying to make their lives better. These same people most likely will keep trying until they do find something that works for them and helps them to lead happy productive lives. As you know, since you attended a training, a person doesn't get involved in something like this unless they are in need of a change. Bully for you that you figured Carmine out immediately. Maybe you are further along in your walk than others were. This is a fine example of how humans hurt one another.
NLP has it's shortcomings. That is true.
What Baffa did was different. You have to remember that many of these people you mention are desperate, weak and damaged.
It seems that in Baffa's case it was a bonus if they were female as well. He always had a female follower. I can assure you they are not his only victims.
You can talk people in this condition into about anything. When people are drowning they will latch onto the smallest floating thing they can find.
These things are classic cult building techniques more than NLP.
I have also found that most people studying NLP are also very desperate and damaged people. They are willing to believe anything. They are SEARCHING for a guru to lead them out of the shit lives they have.
I don't blame their desperation.
I blame Baffa. Understanding him is a much different thing. I don't see him as a predator. I hung around him on and off for a few years and I have gotten to know what makes him tick.
Well.....Let me be clear. I was not a friend of his. I got to know all of the people around him and saw the results of his deranged behavior.
Baffa is a frightened pathetic weakling. He needs people to worship him. Out him in a room alone and he shrinks. So he thrives on the control of others to make himself feel worthwhile.
No one else in his life is important. Only the hunger of worship. He is like a crack head. He will do anything for the drug. He will do it to anyone. His only purpose is to fill himself up with the feelings that he lacks.
If anyone did not worship him, he attacked viciously.
In his seminars he would always look for the one person that was doubting him. Then he would publicly attack or humiliate them.
Another classic cult building technique.
Imagine how desperate and screwed up the parents of the 11 year old must be. They actually allowed someone like Baffa to take their daughter.
Normal healthy people would not do that.
It is easy for some to see he was nuts. Some people will follow a nut if they think it will help them personally.
When I finally had enough of Baffa to expose him, he attacked me. Not physically but online.
I knew he would never attack me. He is a coward. Even the guy he threw into a wall at one of his seminars was only 130 pounds.
Remember...rape is never about sex...it is about the need for control.
Baffa is not a predator. He is too weak for that. Baffa is a cowardly leech feeding on the desperation of others.
Baffa is not smart...he just is willing to do anything to get what he desires.
Baffa is not evil anymore than a shark that eats you is evil. The shark is just feeding.
Fortunately we hold humans to a higher standard that we do animals. No matter what you reasoning, you still have to behave. You are still accountable. You still have to pay for your crimes.
I hope that he is going to pay now.
Luckily it seems that his current girlfriend....or I guess former now, reached her limit. It is frightening to think about where this would have escalated to next.
The classic mindset of cults is the willing refusal to see the obvious. I've checked out a lot of cults and cult like situations and the story never changes. The place to go if you want a good fill in on how this works is rickross.com
Rick Ross is probably the most unloved man in the who cult unvierse because of his long record of exposing the way cults operate and how the top dogs play their games.
Even the firewalking thing had some culty features in my opinion. All this bombast leading to leader glorification and emotional dependency.
So caled "master trainers" of NLP who are not anyone I'd want around my family or friends.
At some point people have to buck up and take responsibility for their choices. If they want to surrender their autonomy to a puffed up windbag with phony credentials then they have made that choice. If they tolerate third rate promoting itself as first rate, they've made that choice.
The human potential movement has a lot to answer for. A lot of junky new age thinking and oversimplifications. A lot of something for nothing scamming.
It's true we have to take responsibility, and it's easier for some people to get clear than for others. When a person has found something that seems so wonderful and lifechanging and are told that in order to get the same results for themselves that they have to change their view of the world, well, a lot of people are willing to try that. That's when they become easy prey for someone who doesn't have good intentions. It is while they are in that state that the cult "mindset" begins. So sad. Has anyone heard when the trial starts?
And by the way T, I disagree with the not being evil part, because if he did in fact have sex with a child he is evil. There is no getting around it. He knew the damage it would cause her. He talked about how the hurting of children causes untold amounts of lifelong damage, he just didn't care. Following your desires or needs to the detriment of others is an evil way to live. That's the kind of person people meet in their nightmares. I also think his former "girlfriend" brainwashed or no is evil. She knew he was having sex with a child and apparently only came forward out of revenge and well after it had been going on. Who could make a person, expecially a woman believe that it was ok to have sex with a child? There is something wrong with her and not in a "bless her pitiful heart" kind of way.
And by the way, being willing to do whatever you have to do to get what you need regardless of who it hurts IS evil. Carmine knows right from wrong. Apparently he just doesn't give a damm. As for his girlfriend, no matter how you slice it, she was willing to let Carmine do evil to a child until it began to affect her life and her affection from Carmine. She is disgusting and sick as well and not in a "bless her heart" kind of way. As Carmine said in his own words, he could get rid of guilt. Do you suppose he got rid of his own and that's why he didn't care? Either way, if this is true, he'll find out the consequences of being evil. He may have gotten rid of feeling guilty, but that doesn't get rid of his actual guilt. Thank God we as a whole do at least try to protect each other and he will have to face what he has done.
sorry, thought the first one didn't go through
This sticks out in my mind. Carmine was surrounded by lieutenants. A lot of these "enforcers" were male. They took on Carmine's bizarre personality traits, confrontational, acticting like they were ready to take it outside and duke it out. Or being patronizing and condescending as hell like they were talking down to a simple child. Carmine was in no wise alone. He had enablers. Maybe they were empty tools who took on Carmine's distortions and thought it made them strong, impressive, macho or better than thou. One of these d-bags started lecturing me nonstop about some hopelessly trivial BS and would not shut up for something like ten minutes. You had to do everything according to Carmine's micromanagement. You had to use the word "delightful" and no other word when you set an anchor. You had to sit in an exact set of seats and if you didn't his jerk tough chick enforcer babe would get on you case. It was all very Tough Guy and Tough Chick who acted as bosses to the weak pliable needy cases. Carmine would sit on his trainer stool and hold a bottle of water over his crotch so it looked unmistakably like an erection. There was Carmine opening his training with this posthetic water bottle boner. Nobody was conscious of how weird this looked ? This guy with way bad hair, a disturbingly out of proportion body, dressed like God knows what, and sitting there blathering on while waggling this water bottle at the audience ? Freakshow all the way....
That is so wierd that you remembered that bottle of water. I noticed it and immediately made the same connection but just assumed it was accidental since Carmine was there to "help us". Naturally he wouldn't be doing anything subversive...When someone is believing in someone else it does take away some of their objectivity. In any other situation I would have found this type of behavior (his and he assistants) threatening and gotten the hell out of there, but since I assumed he was trying to help us all, I put my misgivings to the side. I can only shake my head now and remember that should I ever find myself in the same type of situation again. Thankfully, I have done a lot of healing since that time and doubt I'll be looking for a savior in the face of a man.
has anyone heard anything lately about when the trial is going to start or any other news involving the trial?
Wolfgang, you disgust me. You may be right about the whole thing about Carmine and his assistants, but you are just as rude and disrespectful calling people stupid and now weak and pliable. You are acting like Carmine did talking down to people. You have no idea what made people weak and pliable, your attitude toward victims is reprehensible. Two people now have tried nicely to explain why people were able to be manipulated, now I am telling you, you are just an ass.
Since you are presenting yourself as an expert on the subject, what do you believe makes people behave the way they do ? Why attach yourself to Carmine ? Why detach yourself from Carmine ? Are people only weak and pliable, or do they have a level of autonomy ? How responsible are people for their own actions, their fates ? How much responsibility does Carmine have for this disaster ? 100% 90% 80% ? How much are we puppets and how much do we have free will ? How can you tell ? How old are you beofore you are a true adult ? 20 ? 30 ? 40 ?
Does a 40 year old have more free will than a 20 year old ? Is feeling the emotion of disgust the same as conscious understanding ? Is emotion better than reason or is reason better than emotion ? What is Charisma ? Why does it have such an effect over people ? What is strength ? How does one get strength ? Why don't we typically drive into trees while going 80 miles per hour ? Is niceness the same as intellectual clarity ? Where do you obtain you understanding of the world ? Who can be trusted ? Are there Carmine Baffa like personaties in politics ? In the media ? In the large churches ? What values matter ? How do you come by those values ? What is the effect of television watching on mental functioning ? Does television culture make audiences vulnerable to Carmine like figures ? Would Carmine's antics make for good reality television ? What makes a person just an ass ? Is there such a thing as stupidity ? Does stupidity exist ? If the word "stupid" and all synonyms for stupidity removed from the english language, would certain necessary conversations be impossible ? Did or did not armine talk down to people ? Did he respect them ? Did he have a split personality and both care for them and see them as puppets to be manipulated ? How does one get a split personality ? What is psychic splitting ? What is the effect of psychic splitting on others ? What do weakk and pliable people need to recover from that condition ? How would you treat them therapeutically ? How well does the average person know him or herself ? How much better ought he or she know him or herself ? What IS self knowledge ? How important IS self knowledge for life success ? What is inner freedom ? How does one obtain inner freedom ?
Pardon me, I should have said smart ass.
it is interesting observing the conversations bet. wolfgang & fortheloveofgod. for the most part wolfgang reflects views of a rather evolved being from spiritual and objective perspectives. the delivery of his messages can be a bit more gentle. seems like for the most part, he advocates that so called 'victims' take responsibility for themselves because they are also co-creators of their life experiences. some people in this drama are victims and some people are choosing to continue being victims even though drama is over and carmine is in jail. so ask yourself...is that really the best use of your energy? that is up to you to decide. since this is your life and if you wish to continue to EXPERIENCE the EXPERIENCE of being victims, then continue to do so and put out the energies to attract that. if you desire to EXPERIENCE anything other than victimazation, then decide to put this drama behind you and focus your energies on experiences you desire to create. if you desire to EXPERIENCE healing, consider choosing forgiveness, inner peace, etc...may peace be with you
I would agree except that someone who has spitirually evolved wouldn't feel the need to call those who hadn't gotten there yet names. I was a victim a long time ago and through a lot of hard work and experience have become a victor. I now help victims to do exactly what you are saying. I don't do it by telling they are stupid and weak and needy, however, I do it by showing them what they can be. Some of these people haven't got a clue, but would love to and have already been trampled enough that each cruel word only makes it that much harder to go forward. How hard would it be for a more evolved person to be kind about showing the possiblities that are out there?
evolved does not necessary mean better. a kid in 4th grade is more evolved than one in 1st grade based on knowledge and experience. 4th grade is different not better. you may want to watch the movie Peaceful Warrior. jesus, buddha, gandhi, mother theresa are more evolved beings than the rest of humanity based on their desires to be peaceful, harmonious, objective rather than judgemental, blaming, living in hurt, etc. yes, they are indeed evolved beings. i am not quite as evolved as our greatest teachers but i strived to be. so i move up the evolutionary steps from 1st grade, to 2nd, to 3rd, and keep going and that to me is evolution.
most bystanders observing and comparing your comments vs wolfgangs would probably agree that his writings reflect greater objectivity and your writing reflects a judgemental attitude. if you desire to EXPERIENCE more of your current evolution which seems to be lashing out at both wolfgang and my observations with less than positive comments, then continue to do so until you heart is satisfied. either way i make no judgements toward you other than wish you much inner peace when you are ready. namaste!
You may want to go into a battered womens shelter and look into the eyes of the children who are being trained to be victims and perhaps you'll see where my objectivity gets lost. All I am saying is that putting people down who are already down isn't helpful to anyone.
you may want check into byron katie's work. she has been involved in your type of work probably for the last 30-40 years. she uses 4 basic questions to help people heal. if you choose to master this process, you may be able to help a lot people heal faster.
1) Is it true?
2) Can you absolutely know that it's true?
3) How do you react, what happens, when you think that thought?
4) Who would you be without the thought?
perhaps, you may want to apply these questions to your own thoughts and assumptions if indeed observers are 'putting you down' or not.
you may enjoy a recent documentary the MosesCode. they talk about forgiving the unforgivable, loving the unlovable. director James Twyman's wife was murdered and he was able to forgive that person. one of my family member, a senior citizen was robbed and beatened up badly in his own home. i dont hold anger toward this person. a very enlightening question is 'what hurts you so much that you have to hurt another to heal?'
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
-Confucius
Actually, I think there are several strands to my point of view.
One of them is that I would like to distinguish between going through some hellacious emotional meeatgrinder of an expperience... I've survived a couple of these and no, it wasn't easy, it was devastating, painful, rage filled, and came close to killing me.
However, I learned a mighty life lesson that I would like to pass on, there is a HUGE distinction between being victimined and working through the experience to convert the base metal of pain into the gold of wisdom...
And, on the other hand, being enmeshed in lifelong Victim Narratives... everyone I have known who "bought into" the victim narrative to the point it became an identity, or an identity feature has suffered more or less non-stop, the pain couldn't go through the alchemy of becoming wisdom, it just stayed there like a mental tumor eating away at them and often destroying them.
I fully get that Carmine Baffa was a very unwell man, I believe he suffered terribly, often the profoundly abused DO manifest deep psychic splitting, and the DO injure others in ways similar to the way they themselves were injured.
Carmine struck me as the classic Wounded Healer who for whatever reason couldn't bind his own wounds... the true meaning of the word Religion is from the Latin, *re ligare*, to re-bind, to re-connect. If one's "religion" is no bigger than ones own ego, it is impossible to bind oneself whole.
The deep use of symbol and symbolism in religions comes from the Greek, *sym bolien*, to put together to put the mind and the soul back together, and the meaning of Diabolic comes from *dia bolien*, to pull apart.
The Diabolic Mind is fractured, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
When those looking for a guide in life encounter the *dia bolien* embodied in a guru, or charismatic, or worldly saviour figure, it often feels like a rush of teriffic empowerment, because the split mind is unchained from the norms of society that often feel constricting. This these types inevitably scoff at structures, rules, norms, manners, good education, careful thinking.
Only later come the bitter lessons of Icarus who plunged into the sea after his wings burned off for flying too close to the sun.
wolfgang, your observations are fairly accurate about carmine. i have heard that carmine had been abused when he was younger. for those that know him, he became insane and he went against his own teachings of respecting harmony and ecology. even though he is highly talented with nlp, he lost his mind which is unfortunate. nlp is a powerful tool for creation and healing or destruction. nuclear power is a tool that can produce tremendous energy needs or destroy this world. a tool in the hands of insane person can be quite dangerous. he used fear to justify healing. carmine did not empower his students. he created the need for his services and his students became dependent and even addicted to him instead of trusting themselves. to the people currently involved, they also have responsibility for their experiences. they have co-created this experience.
i have several friends who are healers and they are probably the most wonderful and compassionate people because they were physical abused by parents and siblings. typically, there are two paths when dealing with death and victimization. people either become very enlightened, loving, forgiving, peaceful, or very bitter, angry, blaming and hating the world. i recently experienced the death of probably the most beloved and closest family member. like James Twyman, i choose inner peace instead of anger or blame. i have countless friends who experienced similar situations. one of many examples, two sisters whose father died. one becomes hardened, bitter, and constantly angry at world and other does much soul searching and finds inner peace.
if someone wishes to heal from this experience, then choosing to forgive carmine may allow them to heal faster. if they choose or wish murder or attempt to murder carmine, they will not experience healing but instead will EXPERIENCE the EXPERIENCE of murder and revenge. wishing hurt upon the world will only hurt yourself fist. you must manifest thoughts and feelings of hurt within yourself first before you can manifest on the outside. people desiring to commit act of hurt will have already rehearsed it within themselves over and over again. it is very clear why James Twyman forgive the person who murdered his wife. he simply wishes to follow a spiritual path and become an example to lead a global peace movement. Namaste
The best outcome we can hope for collectively is that this train wreck of lives becomes a high level wake up call for the NLP training community.
As much as I love NLP, I'm also frequently mildly disgusted by the undercurrent of intellectual laziness. The marketing subtext is that you can obtain the riches of a well lived life with one tenth the effort of the outside world that doesn't know about NLP. That is is the passcode to the great bank account of life or something.
NLP ideally should give you a framework for working harder and diving deeper into life.
When it gets reframed as "the easy way out" or "the lazy man's way to riches", which it often does, it becomes flypaper for dubious characters looking for quickie solutions to issues that require years of dedicated effort.
What you get is this thing some psychologists call the "neurotic contract", I won't call you on your crap if you won't call me on my crap and we'll all live out the fiction that everybody is A-OK.
The Hollywood version of this game (this might be a good time for the whole community to brush up on Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis) is I'll pretend to believe you are who you say you are if you'll pretend to believe I am who I say I am.
So, there was this strange experience with Carmine and his water bottle (James Hillman would call our attention to the Roman erection god, Priapus, who is always depicted with an outsized erection, sort of ancient mythology's answer to Viagra) which only two of us were conscious of ? Only two of us saw that and made a mental note ? No freaking way. EVERYBODY saw it, EVERYBODY got it. But, a lot of people had to negate that. Their unconscious minds had to intercept the message, where it would then manifest in weird, situation inappropriete behaviors in the attendees, or be experienced as depressions or confusions or strange losses of self esteem... he may well have been unconsciously replicating the behavior of an adult figure he witnessed as a child.
The problem, a major problem, is that NLP talks a lot about the unconscious mind but it has no idea of what it is talking about. NLP has NO theory of the unconscious. If you compare NLP with Psychoanalysis, (and closely related Dymanic Psychology), Analysis/Dynamics have four, count 'em, four major theories of the Unconscious, each of whicch is a powerul and deep psychology unto itself.... those being Ego Psychology, Drive Psychology, Object Relations Psychology, and Self Psychology.
I'd love to see Carmine or any other NLP trainer attempt a lecture on any of the above, much less try to integrate them into a coherent whole.
Tragically, it is exactly these deep psychologies that hold the key to many a prison, these could offer Carmine and anyone who suffers like Carmine a way out, a path to sanity and redemption.
NLP and its rinky dink toolbox of toys like Six Step Reframing or Collapsing Anchors and whatnot is like comparing witch doctors to modern surgeons.
NLP still has a place, and in the best hands with teachers who don't take the easy way out but constantly struggle and search for deeper quality, it can teach many worthy things. Just don't expect it to be what it isn't and cannot possibly be.
Many of these troubled souls who came to these seminars were/are either in need of Psychiatry, a medical doctor who is licensed to prescribe appropriate medication who is also a doctor of clinical psychology and have the training to make accurate diagnoses or they needed first rate Dynamic Psychology, not some ooga booga ranting by a clown yowling through a reverb box hooked up to two crappy speakers... delivering such startling inquiries as...
"IS AIR NECESSARY FOR LIFE!!!!!????"
"IS.... AIR.... NECESSARY.... FOR.... LIFE!!!!!?"
Like, what the eff, dude ? The point of this profundity is what exactly ?
Nobody could say exactly.... you see, Carmine had "cray wisdom" and he was beyond "limitations"...
this is my last messsage. thank you to all the individuals that are seeking to help and heal others.
wolfgang, you have a brilliant talent in analysis/critical thinking. i do feel that we may be beating a dead horse now. if you and anyone else reading have the desire to apply your wonderful god given talents to create a world of peace and healing collectively, then review the framework below and make a decision to choose the higher path of being the light and ends this cycle of darkness.
1. choose to follow the example of James Twyman, forgive the person who murdered his wife. forgive the unforgivable, love the unloveable.
choose to be forgiving of Carmine instead of seeking revenge. choose inner peace instead of an eye-for-eye mentality. Wayne Dwyer, a modern day spiritual teacher, was a orphan because his father abandoned him early on. The day he forgave his father was the day of his greatest healing.
2. choose to be love instead of hatred and anger
3. choose to be kind to those who has been unkind, rude, insensitive, judgemental, cruel, etc, to you
4. choose be peace and harmony instead of war
5. choose to be observant and to be understanding instead of judging and condemning so quickly. ask the person that hurt you the question 'what hurts you so much you must hurt me to heal'?
6. choose to be Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi-like as much as possible. seek out the spiritual views of Wayne Dwyer, Marriane Williamson, Deepak Chopra, others to understand their vision of inner peace and global peace
7. choose to be giving even when you have little
8. choose to be the first in your family or friends to adopt these views and be the light to this world
i am not a well-off millionaire with unlimited time and resources to contemplate deep meanings of life. i am a regular person with a regular job making ends meet and sometimes not. after dealing with the death of most beloved family member, i choose the path of light instead of anger and bitterness. i choose be and have inner peace. i choose to make a difference one person at a time. each time, i see i homeless person, i give what i can afford whether it is a dollar, $.50, whatever i can afford without judgement of the person in front of me. again, because i choose this way of living, i am not better or superior than anyone or not even carmine. i am only different because i choose to be. i desire to light 1 candle at a time and perhaps that 1 candle will light another and so and so on so that we and all of our children will all have a peaceful world and future.
you all have free will to be and do as you choose. if you choose the higher path, and i have no doubts the universe will be on your side and give back to you tenfolds.
with much love and peace, namaste!
Beautifully said, so much of the world could be healed with these choices in attitude, Thank you.
Emotion and feeling and good intentions must be balanced out with reason and clear logic. Neither can exist without the other. Most new age, self empowerment type group seminars I've attended, whether Landmark Education, Scientology, Bagwan "osho" Rajneesh all, without fail use the big picute human goodness angle. That why so many desperate, lost, confused souls are initially attracted. They assure you that they have higher standards, they are, despite their peculiarities, really deep down more loving, more caring, more about world salvation, no they wouldn't hurt a fly, everything they do is actually for your own good, "they are more on your side than you are", only with time can you become enlightened enough to appreciate their true genius. I've heard and seen this Higher Self rap so many times what I cannot believe is two basic things, thing one is how similar the story is, it's almost like an archetype that repeats itself with slight variations but the core story always remains the same, and thing two is how each and every time the True Believers manage to convince themselves "this time it's different".
No Virginia, thisd time it isn't different, it just varies in intensity and costumery. If you were around for Jim Jones and the People's Temple, where it went all the way, you might have a very different set of bullshit feelers that id say, you want to Tony Robbin's UPW weekend and hey, that wasn't so bad.
Think of it like a spectrum from some seminar Gurus who do deliver a fairly decent, usable education of sorts, and on the other end, the Jim Jones/Charles Manson side, there is the outright Satanic.
So just being a charismatic Guru doesn't automatically equate with being in the worst-of-category end of the business, nor does it guarantee being in the best-of-category, on the side of the great healers.
Many of these seminar scenes fall somewhere in between , probably more toward the better side. You still get the ocassional wipeout.
Right now we ought to be individualy and collectively asking ourselves a lot of hard questions.
Such as, what learnings will protect us and our children in the future. How much more carefully does NLP need to examine its' basic asumptions ? What types on mental exercise, reading, conversations, communication skills will genuinely empower people to choose wisely and live well in a world suffused with deceptions and misdirections ?
How do we know what is what and make the right decisions ? How do we make maximum high quality use of our life energies instead of being sucked into these exhausting vortexes of egotism and bad thinking ?
Innocent untill proven guilty, isn't that how the system works in a democracy???
Inside a court of law. Outside, we are free to discuss this case in just about any manner we choose. But in a court of law, "innocent until proven guilty" has weight. Outside, it's a courtesy. Take your trite attempt to shame other posters elsewhere, "Justine."
True. In the legal system there must be specific charges levied against the defendant. Hence the jury foreman will recite "guilty as charged of the following offence......"
Those charges must comport with a statutory definition of a specific crime. You can't be guilty, technically, in the legal sense, of being a jerk, a sociopath, a mad max road rage head case or anything else.
You can, however, be subject to collective scrutiny and collective social judgement for outrageous, inappropriate, destructive, misleading, grandiose, or whatever behavior.
The second category of collective social evaluation is how the political process works. We slowly build up firm opinions of McCain or Obama or Hillary Clinton based on the observed patterns of their behavior.
In the social realm of public evaluation, we "are" our behaviors. How we behave, how we express ourselves, how we uphold norms or defy norms becomes our public self.
Not what we "really meant" underneath it all, but what we did.
I have to notice that in Carmine Baffa's case, there appear to be a large number of charges pending, there has been widespread shock and condemnation from persons with unlike backgrounds. It isn't like one specific sub-group had it in for Carmine.
Next thing I notice is that Carmine remnains in custody. Remains in custody could only mean that no one is willing to bail him out. How do you explain that when push comes to shove nobody will risk money to allow Carmine to leave a custodial facility ? Has the bail been set so high that it is impossible ? Why is that ?
Third thing worth thinking about is where is anyone making a clear, logical, linear defense of Carmine and publishing it on the net ? If these charges and whatever else are baseless, or blown radically out of proportion, who has been willing to come foreward and present an alternative hypothesis ?
Why has no one visited Carmine in jail, asked him for the real story, how he was set up, framed, or misinterpreted, and come before the community of people who were on the receiving end of his communication skills, and explained the truth ?
This is a guy with super normal communication abilities who should, if anything he ever wrote about himself were true, be able to make a powerful impassioned case for his own cause and put that case before us to consider ?
I have tried to find friends or "patients" of Carmine who might have been helped by him, or have nice things to say about him, or have some line of defense for him as you suggest, Wolfgang. So far, no luck. People seem pretty reluctant to talk. If anyone is interested in talking about their association with Mr. Baffa, I am all ears. I'm working on a profile story for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution about him and want to be as fair as possible, but my deadline is fast approaching.
My office number is 770-263-3660
Hi Andria,
There is a good reason that you are having trouble. Very few people want their names showing up in the newspaper. They also do not want to end up in court.
Some are just too afraid of Carmine.
Maybe an offer of anonymity would help.
FWIW, there is a strange connection between cults. gurus, charismatics and persons of that genus and weirdly immature sexual drives. Who knows why but you will almost always find that whatevwer it is the runs cult psychology has some deep, poorly understood fascination with sex. This is a general truth with a multitude of variations. Either there is a powerful drive to sexual "liberation", or a powerful denial of sexuality (like the Heaven's Gate cult where the male initiates had themselves surgically castrated to stop forbidden impulses), intense fascinations with pornography, such as with the EST training's Six day course that featured a hour long extravaganza of hard core pornographic movies shown on three movie screens side by side, sort of a wide screen porn fiesta of every imaginable perversion, something the present day Landmark Education team goes to pains to not discuss or deny any knowledge of.
The crash and burn of Were Erhard ought to be examined as a fundamental case study that could be seen as a template for many new age large group seminars. The same patterns apply, the megalomania, the groupies, the breaking down of the egos of the followers until they were willing to "recreate" Werner Erhard. Erhard has borrowed or stolen much of his material from the Scientologists, so you could say there is a geneology of guru crapola that runs deep in American culture and you've got to do some real digging before you can put the pieces together.
Absolutely read this, an article in Mother Jones Magazine titled The Bandler Method that will give you some ideas of how the ideas came about:
http://www.geocities.com/bandler...rial/
index.html
The only good thing Carmine did is to give good people another way to feel better about themselves. He helped people achieve more goals by bringing teams of talented people together.
The problem is, he always wanted credit and control for doing what could be done without him.
He used people to achieve his own goals and he beat them down when they wanted more fruit from their labor.
He is nothing more than a con man.
He is now with other con men.
It is time to see if he can really survive and thrive under any circumstance he finds himself in. No cigars. No microphones. No thermostat to turn waaayyy down...
The only followers he can find now are the ones he would turn away at the door of his seminars. He is a selfish, pathetic piece of garbage. That is his only defense!
Too bad the profile story can't be a camera on him all day every day to show the world a serious downside of the slickest con games ever. Slim
In Carmine's own words:
"That is what I meant. And, I can only speak for myself. And, because I do not live inside of any anger, hurt, or dark XXXX, I am free to choose my own behavior, my own choices. And because I respect myself, I can offer myself the kind of self respect that says that I do not have to form my life around the wishes of others. This furthers my ability to continually discover new ways of learning, teaching, and enjoying my own life. That is the sprit that lives inside of me. That is my own personal sprit that leads the way. And this is what drives me to share openly, and freely."
Thanks for sharing, dude. We'll keep that inspiring thought in mind.
In the immortal words of NLP "co-creator" Richard Bandler:
"If you hear voices in your head, he says, tell the voices to shut the fuck up. "If you suffered childhood abuse, don't go back and relive it in your mind. Once is enough!" He says psychotherapy is nonsense and a racket: therapists are rewarded for failure. The longer a problem lasts, the more the therapist is paid. Who cares about the roots of the trauma? "Don't think about bad things!" Bandler says. "There's a machine inside your brain that gets rid of shit that doesn't need to be there. Use it! I can give myself amnesia. I can just forget." He clicks his fingers. "Just like that."
Andria Simmons (reporter from AJC),
I'd like to offer what may be part of the reason you're not finding people coming forward to say positive things about Carmine.
Money. That is, Carmine's former clients are feeling the sting of having poured tens of thousands of dollars into his hands - and for what? His seminars cost from about $850 to over $1,000, but from what I have gathered, he would ask for anywhere between $20,000 and $50,000 for his personal coaching.
These people you've managed to talk to must be hurting - feeling betrayed, feeling cheated. They are probably kicking themselves for not paying attention to the red flags they were seeing - the odd behaviors, the weird vibes, the twisted teaching. They had invested so much into Carmine (financially and emotionally), and wanted so badly for it not to have been a waste. As I wrote to my ex-wife back in '06, as part of my effort to keep my kids away from him:
"You handed Carmine tens of thousands of dollars, and he handed you a pile of crap, because that's what he's full of. Now, you have to make a decision. You can continue trying to protect that investment and trying to force it to do something good (which it can't), or you can take responsibility for a very expensive mistake and start protecting your children from its effects."
These former "believers" you've contacted are having to re-evaluate everything they thought about Carmine, and I have no doubt that they are ashamed for having been sucked into his web. They "fell for it," and they're probably embarrassed. Eventually, their shame and embarrassment will turn to anger, if it hasn't already.
I am positive that prior to April 9th (when he was hauled in), people would have flocked to you to share their wonderful Carmine stories. But that was then. Since April 9th, his loyal followers have been reduced to a chorus of chirping crickets.
It's a welcome change to my ears, though it doesn't help you in reporting "the other side of the story."
To compelling interest: (and anyone who thinks hindsite is 20/20).
Your post above is some of why I believe in a need for vigilante justice today.
(Your comfortable living and talent at doing your own thing ... may be why, the world is in such a sad state now... Because of silence from your kind while your very own children are taken hostage into slavery.)
Too bad I (and you) have been among others in society too weak to stand in a state's prison for wasting a bullet or hangman's noose on a poor slob like carmine ...or your ex wife? or my "less than human" (shall I say) verbal / textual punching bags ... who I know must deserve total destruction... to protect defenseless ones.
Especially since we already "know" or "knew" that everything or something was wrong... and WE were so right.
Maybe such weakness was/is our unconscious admitting that we do NOT really know everything about everything as we may wish we could claim.? Or at least we don't want to suffer consequences of our civilization's disagreeing verdict.
Perhaps sometimes we just accept that we did our best and life plays out... while we stand in "a prison of wonderment" (so to speak) ... how someone could hold different values, motives, beliefs or behavors than ours.
You have a great homepage... sorry for the torment in some unknown situations...
But maybe the "chorus of chirping crickets" (who,of course, you have a right to be angry with )is saving their energy now for some other form of healing or living or giving or getting.
Maybe they ARE full of negative emotions over all this . And maybe they HAVE found better ways to handle their lives.
Maybe now they SEE what they have learned from such a shallow shell ... and maybe now they realize how much MORE they can learn and have learned from true , honest and dependable people.
Maybe all the kudos you saw carmine receieved on the net were just as shallow as he.
Just because something was/is in a website does not mean it is read or it is paid much attention overall.
Just because one person or one hundred people paid tens of thousands of dollars does not mean so many more paid little or nothing... and learned much more than money could buy.
The good did not all come from carmine. He was/is a reciter and a talented mimick.
But who else can get credit if credit is given? Credit automatically goes to the person on the marquis.
I bet in the end the group of nameless, faceless, innocent friends and families hoping and helping to do good did pick up slack where the "leader's" personal coaching left off.
All of us have been hypnotized in our own beliefs. We all win and lose something along the way because of what our unconscious, robotic, computerized brain has picked up and sent out.
Some people realize they can never be perfect and don't want to be... They make mistakes and pay the price and hopefully become better than ever as they learn more and do more.
Thankfully for your kids, for you and for the world... you could stay close to your children when they moved .You kept your sanity and your livelihood ,if you write the truth.
But unfortunately if your hindsite really was 20/20 at the time... and if you really are as perfect as you may want to feel when juxtaposed against the "chirping crickets"... you should have just put a cheap bullet in his head.
(his own brother would have come to your defense if his brother writes the truth).
and the duped sheep would have seen their error with your holy wake up call ...
Or, at the very least your children would have been freed from a monster who deserved to reap some good old fashioned vigilante justice...
If we can make our own movies then that is mine.
Maybe all should read Martha Stout's book _The Sociopath Next Door_ ?, costs about $11 dollars plus shipping from Amazon.
She also wrote _The Myth of Sanity: Divided Consciousness and the Promise of Awareness_.
Also would suggest Gavin de Becker's book _The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence_.
And of course, Theo Dorpat's essential reading, _Gaslighting, the Double Whammy, Interrogation and Other Methods of Covert Control in Psychotherapy and Analysis_.
As Francis Bacon said 400 years ago:
"knowledge is power"... you could reverse that and say with equal truth "ignorance is weakness".
The best action the carmine survivors could take is to form a study group around a reading list and discuss thoroughly what you have read and learned. There is a great education in all of this if you care to take advantage of it.
Slim,
First of all, believe me when I say that many of the movies I've played in my head match your own. After Carmine influenced my ex-wife to drastically reduce my time with my kids, I suggested to some acquaintances that, were they going through the same ordeal, some of them would be able to handle the situation better than I, and some of them would end up in prison (not being able to keep their less civilized impulses in check). I have felt those vigilante impulses quite keenly.
Secondly, I believe in the Rule of Law, and I believe that I can better raise my children OUTSIDE of prison. So, there was no place in my strategy for murder. However, I was anything but silent.
During the four years my children were being exposed to the Nut, I was talking to my ex about my concerns, I wrote her dozens of letters arguing to keep the kids (and herself) away from him, I wrote letters to the Nut himself (as well as his right-hand-man, Alan Allard, who completely ignored me), I consulted with licensed psychologists, I filed incident reports with the sheriff's office, I spoke with lawyers, members of my family and even member's of my ex's family, I appeared several times in court with and without counsel, I tried to get the interest of local newspapers - all in an attempt to raise the alarm.
Three things kept me from being able to do anything concrete:
1. My ex has sole care and custody, leaving me with a voice that has no pull.
2. Not enough money to keep a lawyer's long-term interest.
3. Lack of evidence of any crime.
I kept hearing from the people I'd talk to that "yes, it's weird and bizarre and twisted, but there just isn't enough there to take any kind of action." No, we have to wait until something really bad happens before we can do anything. This is when my vigilante fantasies would stir.
I truly wish that any of the red flags I raised had been able to stop Carmine in his tracks. My goal was to get a court order keeping him away from my kids (before anything really dreadful happened), and telling others about it so they could use it as a precedent to get similar rulings in their own courts. I had a motion drafted last fall that I was pretty sure would do the trick, but my lawyer still didn't think it was enough to get what I wanted.
Aside from raising the red flags, I made sure to talk through with my "defenseless ones" anything Carmine said or did that was either questionable or flat out wrong. For about the last two years they were around him, my boys stopped taking Carmine seriously as some sort of mentor, and rather than going on these trips with their mother to feed on his genius, they were merely tolerating him. My goal was to teach them that he was not an adult to be trusted. I had no evidence that he was abusing anyone, but I didn't have to stretch my imagination very far to see it as a possibility. Of all the people I talked to about Carmine, my boys were really the only ones who listened.
I realize now that my thoughts about his loyal followers (the crickets) were unfinished. They likely will go from disappointment to anger. My hope is that they will be able to move beyond the anger and into true healing.
Meanwhile, my statement from a previous post still stands. If Carmine is meant to receive some prison yard justice after his conviction, I say, "Bring it on."
Compelling Interest (and any who follows such action)...
You may have helped Carmine find his current fate more than we know. You certainly helped your sons learn to deal with problems in a positive way. Tip of the hat to you fine sir.
Compelling Interest
You may have more to do with carmine's downfall than we know.
Thanks.
Slim,
If I had anything to do with it, I'd sure tack it on my resume.
I keep wondering where things are at in the investigation - if others will be implicated with criminal activity or if he acted alone, if the investigation will go overseas (Carmine held seminars in Scotland), if they'll find anything on his computers (i.e., child porn). It may just be the lone Cuckoo, or it could explode into something far larger. The longer we have to wait for an update from the police, the more I think they are probably uncovering more and more. We'll just have to wait and see.
Andria Simmons' article on CB dated 5/24 in the Atlanta Journal Constitution can be found here:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/
content...baffa_0525.html
Now, the creep has been charged with "doing" at least one boy and brother Joe (Scarfone) still thinks he's innocent. Dude, what a crock!
Strange that Carmine refused the opportunity to clarify the situation or defend himself in a jailhouse interview. Why wouldn't he speak to a reporter ? An innocent man seems more likely to jump on the chance to tell his side of the story. If I were falsely accused and a reporter came calling, I'd spend as much time with that reporter as time allotted. Yet Carmine stands silent in the face of such outrageous charges ?
If Carmine's lawyer has any brains, I'm sure he must have given his client a gag order.
Meanwhile, we all seem to be in a holding pattern - waiting for more charges to be announced, or a trial date.
Tick, tock, tick, tock...
This was borrowed from a site that looks at the Landmark Forum. Interesting that these seminars share as many traits as a litter of inbred cats:
"From what I have read by those who have been involved in est or Landmark Forum, the experience is at minimum disrupting and provocative, at best life transforming. This would indicate that something reaches deep into the emotional life of some participant's. Some, like Rabbi Yisroel Persky, claim that what they are being given are little more than "common-sense concepts cloaked in esoteric packaging" (Faltenmayer). But what is common-sense to an educated and well-read person (in the fields of psychology, philosophy, and communication arts), may seem like golden insights to others. Yet, while there must be something of substance to the content of the message (culled from the great minds, after all) the importance of the messenger and the way the message is delivered cannot be overestimated. The messenger must be believable. He or she must appear sincere. He must exude confidence. She must know how to use her voice and body to get her message across. He must be a master of communication skills. She must have wit and humor. He must be a raconteur. She must not only talk the talk but appear to clearly walk the walk as well. And he must do it with a large group and utilize the energy and enthusiasm of the group members to infect each other. If she or he is successful, the participants will leave charged up and ready to take on the world. The revival will have revived them. They will leave running on sixteen cylinders. They will be tuned up, turbocharged, and empowered to change their lives.
That is why so many people feel they have benefited from programs such as Landmark Forum, neuro-linguistic programming, est (or even Scientology or Amway). The programs have given people a positive direction and focus, and surrounded them with like-minded folks for reinforcement. They have helped them achieve peace of mind or to accomplish goals they had been unable to accomplish heretofore. They have helped with personal relationships with spouses and children or helped them justify getting out of relationships with their friends and family. The program has forced them to be more self-conscious, forced them to think and examine their lives, something most people don't do on an ordinary Tuesday. Any time a rational person reflects on his or her life, or on some of the bigger issues in life, it feels good or it puts things in perspective. Either way, it is usually satisfying.
Many who take the LEC training feel that Landmark Forum has given them the power and self-esteem they lacked. Some of the good feeling and carryover in behavior may be long-lasting, or it may be temporary, like the rush that follows an inspirational meeting, or the new perception of reality that follows an intense emotional experience. Much of the improvement in feeling may be due to predictable regression and might explain the urge of many participants to want to take the follow-up courses and advanced seminars. These can get quite costly. For example: LEC offers an advanced course for $700 and two advanced courses on Communication and Power for $1,050. LEC charges $1,700 for The Wisdom Program.
"do you know if he was ever affiliated with Landmark Education ever? It has a rep for coercion via empowerment seminars... and some missing folks."
Both my wife and I have taken the Landmark Forum about 4 years ago. Nothing creepy about it. It was a very good experience. We are both educated and have degrees. I'm 50 now, but I did Silva Method when I was 18, and my older brother (who's now a professor) also did EST. Werner Erhard was associated with both of those programs.
The most coercion done is trying to get you to sign up for advanced classes... we said "no thanks" and they said "ok..." They can be pushy, and that was the biggest turnoff about the entire experience.
Please don't mix Landmark up with this creep!
Has someone written a comprehensive article about what Carmine has done to people? What happens at his meetings?
I lost about ten friends in the Naperville, Illinois area through his Chicago site with Alan Allard.
These particular friends are divorced or moved away humiliated.
Francesco,
I never met the man, but I know some people who used to attend his seminars and they told me some very bizarre stuff (a strange mix of classic group hypnosis techniques and plain BS).
Were you not able to discuss anything with your friends while they were attending, or after they stopped? Maybe they would like a chance to talk about it; maybe you could offer them your ear.
My friends gave themselves into this stuff so far that it appears that they suddenly moved numbers to save face.
If they all disappeared after Carmine's arrest, that sounds a little suspicious, as if they were far enough into it to get in trouble if the law came snooping around. Do you think that is a possibility?
Makes me wonder (again) if the investigation is widening in its scope beyond the Nut only.
One does have to wonder mightily. Not only does no one seem to want to be associated with El Loco, no one wants to be know as *ever* having been associated with him ?
I was one of those sucked in by Carmine. I went to my first seminar in 1997 and was sincerely interested in learning NLP.
I can say that Carmine really was gifted at what amounted to group hypnosis. It didn't take long for me to see the inconsistencies in his personality.
Every manipulation described here is consistent with watching this man operate over the course of September 1997 to about June 1999.
Some may jump in here and call me an idiot. I tried to separate who the man was from what he could do. In the end, my disgust caught up with me and enough was enough.
If there is one thing that is supremely consistent with this man is that he leaves a trail of damage wherever he goes.
I have no doubt he did what he is accused of doing.
Just one story; he used to tell a story about a woman who had this almost psychotic fear of bugs. She became one of his female assistants.
During the Carmine-Tom-Ross internet wars of the fall of 1997, it became apparent that he was going to make her the "fall guy" within his "organization".
As I sat there next to her in the seminar room he began talking about this woman's bug phobia. But instead of talking about how he cured her, he was doing something subtly different.
As she started looking at her hand, as though looking for bugs, I realized he was trying to reinstall her psychotic phobia. Now, whether one accepts that as possible or not, there can be no question as to the psychopathic nature of someone who would even try to do it. She ran for the hills. I hope she has prospered since then.
Yes, people have been duped and humiliated and hurt by Carmine. Some really are scared. I don't think the whole story will come out until he is convicted and behind bars
Holy Christ!
I just remember a comment Carmine made at the end of a seminar once.
I was standing around and got into a brief conversation after a persuasion seminar when he said "this its pretty powerful stuff. You could use this to molest little kids."
It was such a bizarre thing to say. I was speechless. He just watched me closely for a few seconds then went off in his typical blather. The man does NOT converse.
Afterward, I talked to another of the participants who witnessed this bizarre communication. All I could figure was that he was testing me to see if I would light up after hearing his suggestion. Presumably if I did he would know he had a child molester on his hands and would do something about it. (based on his many stories about caring for children)
Now I know his statement was about himself.
Who is able to provide information on the Tom Ross ordeal? Has anyone ever tried to unmask Carmine before? I have about a dozen friends that were duped by him and his Chicago area apprentice. I was unable to get through to them before they spent large sums of money over the course of a few years. As an observer, I can say that none of them overcame the issues that they went to see Carmine for--whether it be the promise of curing an illness, an addiction, or obtaining profit and power.
There needs to be a comprehensive inquiry and I am considering such a project.
Sheeesh... what's with the NLP community going all "no comment" about this character ? It's like the best use they have for their amnesia hypnosis is to make themselves forget that Carmine Bat Brain WAS training NLP!???.. and by a lot of standards "almost as good or maybe better than Richard Bandler" NLP or whatever... damn! Shouldn't this be some kind of massive wake up call for issues like personal integrity, congruity, insisting on higher standards, continual education, and al that good stuff ? Or when you get down to is is it all about the Benjamins ?
The statement that Carmine was trainign NLP better than Bandler is bunk, unless you just want to focus on "installation" only. Bandler uses his many assistants to do the consious part. When I knew Carmine, his assistants could at best lead people through the exercise. It wasn't like having John La Valle come in after Bandler. Carmine had nobody of equialent skill to comare to John La Valle (based on my personal experience with both groups). I have also trained with John Grider as well as Rex Sikes so I have seen the spectrum.
After many, many trainings, I can't claim to consciously know what Carmine taught. No conscious knowledge! If I had to build a training based on what I learned, I don'know what I would put in it!
For his students to get good, they had to spend a lot of time reading and practicing on the outside. Just ask Tom Vizzini, or Houston, or Skip Carson (certified Human Performance Engineer), or Monte (I think he was cerified too) if they ever learned anything consciously from Carmine. The answer would unequivicably be "no."
Carmine never operated that way, in my experience during over 500 hours of training.
As for why nobody wants to comment, I thought I did comment?
Let me add that "legitimate" or "mainstream" NLP trainers had no regard for Carmine or thought he was dangerous. As one said to me once "He only knows enough to be dangerous." I think that statement was prescient.
Dude! 500 hours and you stuck around ? Thata lot of brain pounding !So are you now training people with NLP ? I meant from the trainer levels of the NLP organizations such as they are. But, yeah, there are some websites up and running that make the Bandler-Baffa complex eqivalence, if you know what I meme, or maybe he was just a metaphor for something... but whoh ! 500 hours with that guy is like self admitting to Guantanamo for head adjustment. Pure torture.
It wasn't that bad. And in the end, it did not strip me of my ethics, morals, whatever you want to call it. It did leave me uninterested in being an NLP trainer. I saw too much lying and conniving to extract dollars from students, especially those who were doctors and had big salaries. I was too poor to be the center of that attention.
I think the difference is that for me there was always a filter wrapped around what he was saying/doing. So I never bought into his amoral stance. I always recognized something in him I did not want to model or absorb, and so I didn't.
Sometimes at night I would have dreams where the submodality interventions he made during the day were reversed. Something in me recognized them as unaceptable to my personal ecology. In the end, my unconscious mind protected me from being "infected" by ideas...memes if you will...that I did not want.
If you are going to dance with the devil, you better know he is a devil.
So I assure you I don't now (8 years later) or even then need to have my head fixed.
Carmine seduced whole groups visa vie religious assistants in near Atlanta, Chicago and Los Angeles. In one case there was war between the assistants and the church leaders. The damage in one of those situations is impossible to calculate.
This much for sure... the tale grows weirder and weirder like this guy was/is some bottomless pit of discord. Now I get why he liked doctors... doctors spelled two or maybe three things in his mind, the have money, people tend to see them as authority figures so Carmine could piggyback on their earned status in society, and maybe just possibly they have access to controlled substances. Sounds almost like a case for demonic possession.
Did anyone here ever attend Carmine's meetings in the Chicago area between 2002-2004 (actually Lisle, near Naperville)?
Does anyone have video footage (for purchase) of Carmine Baffa in action other than the three demos on his website?
I attended meetings in Lisle between 2002 and 2004. I just got done reading this whole blog (save for certain posters I didn
’t care for) and that is several hours of my life I’ll never get back, however it was useful for me to process thoughts and feelings etc. Several thoughts come to mind, first and foremost I pray for all those that may have been hurt by the actions of Carmine, including family members, trainers etc. I also pray for Carmine as he too is made in God’s image.
What can I tell you of ¬my experience? It was very positive, and I mean very positive. Perhaps it was the timing, I was ready for change call it what you will but I was released from numerous less than beneficial patterns that I had developed over the years quickly and easily. So much so that I saw to it that two of my brothers attended seminars in Lisle as well. I still use a lot of what I learned in the seminars I attended. I think I attended around 5 all together, which included a “special training” in Las Vegas. I’ll have to say that one thing Carmine taught early on was to take the tools that are useful for you and use them and in fact give them away and if something doesn’t work try something else. I supplemented what I learned in seminars with reading books about NLP, one of my favorites is My Voice Will Go With You: The Teaching Tales of Milton H. Erickson, M.D. Another point he was fond of making was that you can do whatever you want in this world, however there are always consequences for our actions. Well there are definite consequences he will have to face due to his actions. We all have filters and I guess my filter is my strong faith and I don’t swallow anything whole without processing it through my filter. Not sure why I shared that but here it is anyway. You can call me “stupid” for hanging around longer than ten minutes after the first training, however for me it was beneficial. None of this is said to defend Carmine if what he is charged with is true. I have fond memories of the people I associated with during these trainings and seeing them progress as a result of being part of something they felt was beneficial. Lastly I agree with the posts about forgiving and about attracting negativity. Please as far as it depends on you live at peace with everyone and that includes yourself!
Dan,
Can you email me at IanMarkus2003@gmail.com? I would like to hear(read) positive encounters along with the negative in order to find a correlation of the facts.
Thanks,
Ian
Dan,
All men are made in God's image. Sure. But what went wrong? What can be learned? It seems that people like you have a responsibility to tells what happens.
I too (like Ian) see a failure from the Lisle events but I never attended one. So many people were invited by the same few to achieve the panacea and yet, those who us who stayed back, noticed the path of despair. Obviously you don't feel damaged--but why were others fallouts, even carnage. A few told me (reluctantly) how it all went bomb but without details.
"Dan" (I assume that is your real name), can you share something that explains the other less-satisfying experience?
Patrick
No one wants to really come clean and describe a full Carmine session or long term experience in detail. I don't care about juicy details but I do want lessons to pass on.
Has anyone heard anything recently about what is going on with the case? Any new findings, etc?
Can someone help me get in contact with Tom (his email) who has been wrestling with Carmine since the mid-1990s? Tom, are you out there?
Ian
IanMarkus2003@gmail.com
this is aweful but remember he being charge your all acting like hes guilty...
theres alot of revenge and foul play in that world but on the other hand...
WWho knows alot of times the girl wanted to be intimate with him and he sai9d no and she got angry out of revenge...
Could I interest you in a bridge connecting Manhattan and Brooklyn offered at a very attractive one time only deep discount price ?
"Mark" sounds like another illiterate Baffa family minion. In any case, DNFTT.
Personally I am successful becasue I really dont give a fuck...
I got a Wolfgang that probably watches lord of the rings everyday and even plays it out in his fantasies and come on...
Most likely it sounds like he's guilty but Junket which is an awesome name wow your intelligent enuff to tp be the prosecutor!!!!!
Awesome guys its idiots like you that ruin the nlp community...
Go ahead and respond back I dont care and am not coming back here I actually have a life and success you fucking niggers...
Can we return to the facts? Is there a single comprehensive story about Carmine Baffa's A to Z influence on someone?
Ian, Patrick and I are both asking for the same thing? ... A fuller story.
"Mark" sure looks like he learned his lessons all too well from the CB book of wisdom. I doubt anyone who got close to the chernobyl reactor core of carmine's personality is now in any mood for public "sharing". Granted, it would make one helluva story, probably a number of writers chomping at the bit for the prosecutor's case to be presented. If it goes national in Time or any similar mass publication you can bet your boots that NLP won't be in the happy place.
I would like to contact the prosecutor of the Baffa trial details and keep people posted on public dates and records?
Does anyone know who he or she is and their contact information Georgia?
With a case of this notoriety, I would contact the Gwinnett County District Attorney, Danny Porter:
http://www.gwinnettcounty.com/
cg...ypeId=536880236
FYI, "junket" comes from a puddling-like dessert commonly seen in Denmark and for which I have several published recipes.
To "Wanting Answers"
I have one of the video tapes that Carmine was selling during the 2000-2004 period. I was one of the people who attended the Lisle trainings. I went to the very first training that was held in Chicago. I also had the dubious "honor" to have not one, but two personal one-on-one visits with Carmine to the tune of $500 each. There were positives and negatives to the trainings and I attended MANY, even some in Atlanta. I have been both hurt and helped. If anyone is interested, I could go into some detail, though I'm not sure this is the forum to give names and places.
And Dan, I'd like to hear from you if possible. I have lost touch with all of the people from the Lisle trainings and would like to catch up with who is gone and who is still around.
I can be contacted at sgrogan57@gmail.com
In 1998 I wanted a session with carmine, I was imopressed by the bs in his sites. I was told by Kaelin? sounds like her name (a surrogate of his-secretary) I had to attend his seminar, I forgot the title, somethig about you can have anything you want, so I paid and flew to Atlanta to a hotel where he had his seminar in a second floor. Three days went by, the end of the seminar came everybody was leaving, I approached him, he told me something like: "can you test the change" I said no, it has to be while the market is open. he said "we will work through e-mails, I said that's not what I flew to Atlanta for, I came here so we would have a session together, any way I got so pissed I had a plane to catch I left. The end result is I wasted my money in a seminar where I learned nothing and on top of that he stole $500.oo for the work we were going to have. Later on I wrote to him asking for my $500.oo he never responded.
Has he not had a trial yet? Anybody heard what is going on?
i would like to know that aswell.
ive searched far and wide for any sort of recent information and cant come up with any.
hopefully his sorry ass is going crazy in jail.
Does anyone out there know anything about criminal investigations? The only reason I can come up with as to why we haven't heard anything for so long is that the investigation is ongoing - meaning that the police are still uncovering and documenting "stuff."
As soon as things got quiet last April/May, I have always wondered if Carmine had led other adults into his twisted sex therapy (i.e., with minors). If so, the police may be gathering evidence to nail any accomplices. And this could be in multiple states and even overseas (I know he did some seminars in Scotland). But this is all just speculation on my part. I can't think of any other reasons why all of this would be taking so long.
I hope we hear something soon.
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