oooh, first comment! interesting point steve, about the similarities. hopefully the truth will come out alot sooner with amanda knox than it has for the holloway family.
as young woman who has travelled overseas i think its easy to take risks and do things you wouldnt normally do - away from your family and friends and familiar surroundings the normal rules dont apply. natalee would have felt safe and been on an adventure in aruba....and someone with amanda's personality could get out of control without the usual checks and balances i guess.
i dont know - i wouldnt walk around my own neighbourhood in the dark on my own....but i walked around london in the dark and didnt really take in that the risks are the same.
Lizzy, I first went to New York City when I was 16. I went from being a kid who was petrified of driving on the Interstates around Nashville, TN to hailing cabs during rush hour in front of Bloomingdale's. Didn't think about it. The excitement and adrenaline overrode so many of my internal cautions it wasn't even funny. A lot of kids who seemed kind of repressed at home (a girl I dated both in high school and college, Jeanie, went on that trip, and she was the perfect example of this) flipped for 4 brief days in NYC, wearing different clothes, drinking, you name it. A month later we were back in Nashville, I was back to being phobic about the interstate, and Jeanie was back to wearing her good Baptist cross necklace and demure blouses that buttoned up to her chin.
Weird side of human nature, ain't it?
There is something about this girl "Foxy Knoxy" that I just cannot stand. Of course, "weirdness", vanity, and rampant narcissism doesn't always mean murderer...
I'm pretty sure there's nothing the European media would love more than a "cute" American girl being this vile. Disgusting.
I guess I am the odd ball then. They ALL fascinate me! Human interest stories and I'm there.
LOL, Steve, you acted on instinct. When you and I (we are the same age) were 16, NYC was at its worst. Acting naive could and probably would have got you hurt.
Humans are animals after all, and instinct kicks in.
I am happy for you....for your new writing spot at Radar...however I am posting my thoughts on Knox here because I am a true Steve fan and this is home to me.
I find the release and interview of Patrick Lumumba to be VERY ENLIGHTENING into what happened when, where, why, and how. He showed me a bit more into the character of Amanda.
Now more than ever, I am seeing a young woman that was dominated by hate and jealousy mostly (if not covertly) aimed at women and how other women could make her feel threatened.
I sincerely wish Patrick the BEST and am really ground to a halt by his personal testament of how he was treated in this case in relation to evidence ILE had.
Natalee and Amanda. Both young (same age), pretty, abroad (away from home), both perhaps confident and experimenting and (maybe a bit) naive about the situations that they put themselves into. Sounds like every teen/young adult female I can think of...In North America and Europe alike. I see nothing else in common between these two women.
Have I missed something here?
Differences? One is a victim and is (likely) dead. The other is being held as a suspect and might have criminal involvement (likely) in the death of another.
Maybe the two shared something in common in how they got to their situations but their circumstances lead one to conclude that there are far more differences between them than similarities.
"(likely)" is the only similarity I can see between the two.
Judging from movies, Americans liked the idea of wicked women, femme fatales, from around 1944 until around 1952. Think of Jane Greer in "Out of the Past."
Before complaining about the European press' glee, think of the s**tstorm our media would drum up if this occurred here, at the hands of an exchange student (read "immigrant").
I'm an avid reader of the Perugia story here on Steve's blog. My condolences go to Meredith's family though I doubt there is any consolation to them now.
Thought I'd add a few lines of comments myself.
I spent half a year in Sweden as an exchange student back in 2002 when I was 21. One sure becomes a bit relaxed away from home in a foreign country. I was drinking more often and partying a lot more than in my normal surroundings. No drugs, but if I'd had a real chance to try that, maybe I would have done it... I engaged in a (sexual) relationship with a man (of different colour) I wouldn't dare date in my own country (no racism here, we were just too different). I remember shocking my dorm mates sometimes 
I FELT DIFFERENT.
That was some way of exploring myself. At the same time I knew I could allow myself to experiment with "being different" because I'd leave as soon as the study programme finished and could be "back to normal" in my own home.
I somehow feel connected to Amanda in that way... I imagine she might have felt some of that, but overstepped the line (assuming she had a part in that cruel murder).
I'd never turn to anything criminal, harming other people etc. I wonder if that has to do with some inner wrong, a lot of insecurity and evil personality... Or maybe... just a lot of bad luck, an unhappy coincidence of such circumstances as too much alcohol, drugs, and getting too excited on being "on the loose"...
You know that 1/2 year has taught me a lot about myself. I've become settled down, more secure inside myself and I remember my time in Sweden with an inner smile. I guess Amanda won't... And in this way, I'm sorry for her.
...I too don't see anything in common between natalie and amamda - I see natalie and jonbenet as having more in common - both had mothers who pushed their kids to be/do what mother wanted for their own personal reasons - now JB and natalie are both gone - beth and patsy were reliving their lives thru their daughters -
Steve, when I clicked on "recommend it" on Radar, it immediately clicked me off the internet. I went back on and read another article/different author clicked "recommend it" and the same thing happened again. Weird.
Another thing that is weird is this entire case, the DNA on the knife could be from both girls touching it. If it was the murder weapon wouldn't they clean it better if they took it to the boyfriend's home? I didn't hear that there was blood on the knife, just DNA. Amanda is a nasty girl but I'm wondering if she and her boyfriend are not guilty of murder.I think she was drugged out and told the police whatever they wanted to hear, or whatever she thought she "dreamed". I'm still waiting for the entire story to unfold. Now they are looking for another couple because of DNA found at the scene. Sounds like this place was a party house so there might be lot's of unrelated DNA. I think the guy who took the dump in the toilet and left his DNA on Meredith and then danced at the disco is the only killer.
@ Iflight
You said: 'I knew I could allow myself to experiment with "being different" because I'd leave as soon as the study programme finished and could be "back to normal" in my own home.'
Perfectly described! This is exactly why that half-year or year or maybe even two years abroad are good for most people. The combination of license and the lack of people with preconceived notions about who one is, is liberating and increases self-knowledge no end.
I think some of you who are saying you see nothing in common are missing my overall point, but that's ok. As the writer it's my responsibility to make that point clear, and if I didn't do that for some people I can live with it.
Colette -- some sort of javascript implements when you click that recommend it link. I did it for a different author's article and had no problems and I noticed that the clicks on my update post had gone up, too. Could there be problem in your browser with javascript? We've had a problem with Firefox especially here at my home, even though we all love the browser otherwise. It doesn't seem to like javascript very much.
Also, only click once on any article you like there. No need to click more. I think they have an IP identifier script that disallows multiple clicks from one source -- I had a similar script on an older blog where I briefly implemented a similar system.
I can promise those who fear Amanda Fox will be chewed up and spat out in the uK? European press that all we are interested in is what really happened to Meredith. I have read that Meredith was beginning to get fed up with all the different boyfriends Amanda was bringing home and wanted to talk to her about it. That's the worst I've read. However spare a thought for the McCann's - in three papers today I saw they'd sold Madeleine into slavery themselves, were the killers and a book was being written to prove this and and yet another libellous remark about their DNA and Madeleine's having been found mixed "somewhere" (really, that accurate!) and this is seven months on from Madedeine's disappearance...
What was the history of that 'party' house and how many in Perugia knew it as such even before Amanda went to live there?
does anyone think it's possible that r did it all alone, a showed up while he was, he threatened her, she gets r and they do the cleanup, maybe they planned on doing some cleanup in m's room, but were sidetracked when the police showed up? long shot, but who knows at this point?
sorry that was confusing, i meant r alone, as in rudy, and a getting r as in raff
I just read in an italian paper, that they foung chewed gum on the nightstand next to MK bed - they are going to check out who it belongs to.
I read contradictory accounts of the blood stain found in the bathroom - i read that it was AK fingerprint or blood from a nosebleed that AK had.
Third thing I read that surprised me -is that now the papers are saying that perhaps this murder took place was due to AK stealing money from MK. Investigators want to connect the call that was made from MK's cell to her bank somehow.
Lastly, there were three knife wounds. 1 long cut made with knife that was found at RS's apt. and 2 smaller cuts that were possibly made from a swiss army knife (could it be a knife from one of RS's collection??).
nearseattle - if RHG was alone in the crime, then why was alot of the scene attempted to be thoroughly washed?
that's the only thing, and the knife, and the CCTV footage, an Amanda's strange behaviour of not being bothered afterwards, and shopping with RS for lingerie the next day.
peace, love & empathy.
I think at this point it is pretty clear that all three - RHG, RS, and AK - were somehow involved in the actual murder. Theories about how one or the other was only involved in the cleanup, or was threatened to keep to quietm, do not hold water. If that were the case, they would be able to make a credible confession that is consistent with the evidence but have not done so.
what bugs me THE MOST about this case of Amanda Knox is that we have obtained little of what her life was like (and her personality and sexual identity)before she arrived in Spain ready to study for a year...
I think any past information on her psychological state prior to these events (and also a complete scrubbing of any and all other related cases that occurred during her time in Espana), can/could uncover even more similarities to other cases of this same type.
(aside:...): (for those of you making crass and erroneous statements about the decedent..I urge you to find your BASIC SENSE of human dignity after reading any text on the military and examining any and all advanced training that sodiers take.
While the aftore mentioned brainwashing may have seen simnply enough in words....I URGE YOU (as a family member of an officer for over 16 years) to tally the answers and then share them with Greta or another news~worthy media outlet.
ohhhhhh! Re~reading it, my last post sounded very vindictive to say the least~ I AM SO SORRY ABOUT THAT!
I STILL have tons of questions pertaining to the timeline but am also sure that the distributors of such comments are hard, if not impossible, to read and assimilate.
WHAT CAN YOU ADD HERE, GRETA? I swear...out of all women alive currently on our planet YOU ROCK THE GLOBE! (and Meredith....while I know those were not your words during the investigation,,,they still managed to help you set yourself free!)
Steve~o,
You said this:
" I think some of you who are saying you see nothing in common are missing my overall point, but that's ok."
I think I have your point..but I am a 'real' blonde and for some reason that really DOES effect my processing speed.
So here goes....Amanda Knox and Natalee are on flip sides of a coin because they were both young and on their own and due to their teenage lack of impulse control ended up in similar situations.(being murdered). Yet...their situations could not be more different at the same time.
I think we should keep looking for Stacy and putting on the ultimate pressure as well.
So when will this end?
Both stories remind us of the danger of letting our guard down or taking greater risks when in a foreign country.
As regards the Perugia (Italy) case, the victim, MK, had not let her guard down. She already had sensed a danger in Knox's "strange men". This was why she objected to them (not because she was prude).
Still, if MK had been in London or Leeds rather than in Italy, with such a roommate, she would have already moved out of the house. So she also was taking a greater risk (risk by association). (This is not in any way to place the blame on the victim.)
As for Knox, she went right off the rails...
In the Madeleine case, there too the parents took a greater risk (leaving their three kids unattended), simply because they were abroad.
From what I can see, looks like the 3 of them were all involved to some degree. makes a nice grim story....wait for Hollywood to latch on!
I thought that there was a finger print on meredith's face from amanda. It was a fingerprint which also indicated that a great deal of pressure/force was applied to meredith.
Now the press and the prosecuter are acting as if this new blood find in the bathroom is the only substantial clue that puts amanda in the house when she says she wasn't.
What is up?
Steve, I think your opinion about Natalee Holloway is unfortunately true. what do you think about Madeleine McCann? As much as people want to be optimistic, do you think the worst has happened to her as well? Am interested to read your opinion on that case. Thank you.
I've always felt that Natalee was most likely disposed of at the location of an abandoned meat packing plant, which is on the north coast end of the island.
This was a place where workers used to dump scraps of meat into the ocean, which in time attracted sharks, both large and small.
Today, it stands as a place where tourists go to see/feed sharks.
When I was Honeymooning in Aruba (June of 2005) I heard from many different locals that sharks were still fed at this location, as well as others in the coastal areas of the island, for the purpose of keeping the sharks away from the beaches.
That being said, until a body or other conclusive evidence of death is produced, I wouldn't write off the possibility (remote as it may be) that Natalee is alive and being held captive against her will, as part of the ever growing human trafficking sex trade. (Especially with the international connections of the accused in this case.)
Seriously... it wouldn't be difficult at all to slip a girl a mickey at Carlos'n Charlie's and then carry her off to be transported, by boat, plane, or whatever.
nursebeeme was like:
> what bugs me THE MOST about this case of Amanda Knox is that we have
> obtained little of what her life was like (and her personality and sexual
> identity)before she arrived in Spain ready to study for a year...
>
> I think any past information on her psychological state prior to these
> events (and also a complete scrubbing of any and all other related
> cases that occurred during her time in Espana), can/could uncover even
> more similarities to other cases of this same type.
>
WTF?
> (aside:...): (for those of you making crass and erroneous statements
> about the decedent..I urge you to find your BASIC SENSE of human dignity
> after reading any text on the military and examining any and all
> advanced training that sodiers take.
(ASIDE: WTF? "decedent"? "military"? "sodiers"?)
> While the aftore mentioned brainwashing may have seen simnply
> enough in words....I URGE YOU (as a family member of an officer for over
> 16 years) to tally the answers and then share them with Greta or another
> news~worthy media outlet.
WTF?
Excuse me if this misses the (ie your) point, but may I respectfully request that you consider refraining from hitting the "post" button whilst under the influence of mind-altering substances?
What has "Spain" got to do with anything, much less a "decedent" or "so[l]diers"?
Hi everybody!..
so...
Some news (if you can call this "a news") ... The AK's version on the day (I've lost the progressive number... I think would be the 6th?)
http://www.ansa.it/opencms/
expor...l_42997966.html
"AK reaffirms the version that she has never been in the house in Via della Pergola while Meredith Kercher was killed"...
ciao
More news:
http://www.lastampa.it/
redazione...27955girata.asp
RS's lawyers will demonstrate that Postal Police went to the cottage at 01,05pm... So they can prove that RS really called the police earlier...
What a shitty couple of lawyers... But masonry CAN...
ciao
...and I'll leave you with my first (and still unsolved) question of the previous thread:
Why MK's cell phones were launched JUST THERE?
ciao e buona notte
Eh, I don't believe that taking the knife to the cottage necessarily proves premeditation, other than planning to use it for cooking.
And the reason there was no evidence of the knife in AK's purse was because the Clever Cleaners wrapped it in something before tucking it into the purse.
Without having any forensic analysis of the cuts, I surmise that one knife was used...it cut shallowly a couple of times and then the fatal blow was dealt.
If other loose ends on the crime are tied up nice and pretty then the knife does become premeditation, I believe, and the phone calls, and a bunch of stuff. Daddykins made a decent case on Sonnny's knife (knife #2, tied to one wound) being a matter of habit.
Meredith's friends would have known if she'd had plans after their pizza-movie party, at least so far as she may have mentioned needing to be home at 9; and, they should have noticed phone calls coming in. I'm hanging on to MK as an innocent roomie for now, although, I thought her tox may have shown a little cannabis or a toot or two. I do recall it coming back clean. We haven't heard about tox on big a or little rs yet, right?
I can feel you out there.
[Pinecone: I can't wait to get back to Italy.]
The Seattle board is getting more interesting. This is a thread of tree-huggers meets one of the macho lands of beer and hunting, with a few outsiders chiming in. I admit. I am waging a fact-finding mission to learn which hand ak favored.
http://tinyurl.com/ytfgua
I guess I'm having trouble with the premeditation theory because I feel as though the murder happened when things got out of hand.
I can't imagine the motive for planning MK's death.
If they planned on killing her from when they were still at RS's apt., why would they offer her mushrooms for a snack first?
Plus, I have a hunch that they wouldn't have known MK's schedule that night. AK and MK don't sound like the sort of roommates that check in with each other. "Hi Amanda, I'm going to a friend's house to watch a movie and have pizza. I'll probably get home around 9 or so...." Just isn't plausible, to me.
Also, if they had planned to end her life that night, why give her a wound that took two hours to bring her death? Why not just finish her off quickly and move into the cleaning part of the plan?
Of course, I'm trying to think like a murderer here, and that's about as possible as thinking like a cat.
OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DANGIT!!!!!!!!!!!!
How could I DARE to forget Melinda Duckett? This case FOR SURE needs sent over for further discussion. Steve~o, your coverage and tireless research outdid MSM BY MILES (but then again...your writing and coverage all seem to make preternatural sense and literally beg to be answered~if YOU ask them. This is a skill that is so very rare.
Rock on brother. You are 'the king' of internet true crime blogging. You have redesigned the face of investigation with a little nip here and a tuck there.
ahhhh.....
ps, I took the haunted tour of Fort Leavenworth (the base on which I currently live) and got a chance (during this halloween tour) to enter the old DSB (army prision...they have built a new one within the last five years or so).
No MPs that had worked the old dsb before would even come on the grounds to talk about it! I looked up at the elevator shaft where they had hung 10 German POWs (they were murdered in cold blood without a trial)and spotted a shadow person in one of the windows with his arms crossed and looking down at us. It made my hair stand on end!!
funniest thing about that.....no one has been in or occupied the old buildings for the past five years! I am also not the only one who saw the shadow person...another little boy (around 
also was VERY FREAKED OUT BY IT)and vocalized it way before I would have.
The guard went on to talk about the former shadow person they had on the third tier of cells in the old dsb...they purposfuly kept that cell open because every time any guard made rounds they were showever and pushed almost over the railing of tier three.
One officer actually fell to his death...and that is what our docient that night explained.
Lights in the guard towers go on and off at all times of the day and night at the old dsb (and the lights DO NOT HAVE BULBS!!!).
Creepy, I tell you! Next week my friend and I are going to go place flowers on all the german pow gravesites. At the time of their execution they were burried along the north~south axis (which is a slam to anyone in the military....as all mlitary are to be burried facing the east...facing the son).
sorry...that would be, "facing the sUn"
And also, Fort Leavenworth was (and is) the sight of the largest mass killing in US penal history.
Over 50+ soldiers were hanged to the death in alphabetical order.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/ne...pect/
article.do New to me......New to you?
Middie | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 5:07 pm | #
Your question I do not understand. What do you mean by launched?
It is never in my intentions to vilify the victim, but some questions do need to be asked, especially when they can mean the difference between a accident death and a premeditated murder.
Grant it, knowing that Meredith Kercher and Amanda Knox didn't necessarily live in perfect harmony, does make any willing liaisons between the group of those in question UNLIKELY.
That being said... It seems as if this, "Last Supper", did serve the purpose of seducing Meredith, if only to drop her guard. Kind of like breaking bread or extending an olive branch.
Meredith strikes me as someone who would have just as soon forgave and forgotten, but that is merely speculation on my part....just as I speculate that Amanda is prideful and the complete antithesis of a forgiver.
(Makes it ironic that she is seeking council on the concept of forgiveness... or does it?)
I can't be sure that during this "snack," a heated argument didn't soon follow, that tempers weren't lost, and an action was committed that could never be taken back. However, the wounds inflicted upon Meredith seem the furthest thing from rage or a drug induced frenzy.
I've seen violent drug fueled crime scenes (during my days as a first responder)and as I've said before, the degree of overkill is more often than not EXTREME.
I see a lot more control here. It could just be circumstantial, but one gets the impression that whoever killed Meredith KNEW they had all the time they needed to carry out whatever intentions they had. (and that the other 2 roommates weren't going to walk in on the scene as it unfolded.)
I guess what I am saying is that I am beginning to lean towards some degree of a premeditated act. Perhaps the initial intention wasn't to take a life...perhaps all of those involved weren't on the same page. All it takes is for one person to take something a little too far....
Accounts of Amanda in jail have been a mixed review, every spectrum of the manic rainbow. Also, in her own words, she has a bunch of different "truths," but she isn't sure which one is "real." I believe she is looking directly down the barrel of that through and knows damn well what it is.
If Rudy Hermann Guede was even slightly involved in the plot, surely the same Raffaele Sollecito who has attempted to distance himself from his girlfriend, would point his finger at Rudy to save his own hide... Yet, he has not. This despite Rudy's generic "assassin" description that almost physically fits Rafe to a tee.
Does Rafe fear Rudy... or is it simply the fear that Rudy has the information needed to firmly put Rafe at the scene of the crime, be it before or after? (My read on Rafe is that his greatest fear is disappointing his father.)
Amanda seems loyal to Rudy, to a fault. I've suggested they are "birds of a feather," with some mutual understanding/fondness. I also suggested that Amanda supplanted Patrick Lumumba name for Rudy's and Patrick, himself, has already disclo
continued...
I also suggested that Amanda supplanted Patrick Lumumba name for Rudy's and Patrick, himself, has already disclosed her possible motivation for doing so.
The degree of Rudy's involvement seems to be the linchpin to this case. He has already contradicted himself as many times as Amanda Knox has, so it's difficult to get an accurate read on him. What has run through my head is ghoulish, to say the least, but does go back to his initial acknowledgment of having sex with Meredith, but not killing her. Perhaps that is because you can not kill someone who is already dead?
I found it very interesting how the day after Amanda's journal was leaked, RS released his letter to his father. It seemed as though RS was directly responding to Amanda's words of confussion and sadness that RS is not being nice about her, and that everything is like a dream in her life > RS then writes confirming that life is like a dream for amanda, and that he does not think she is a killer.
I also feel that not only is Amanda loyal to Rudy, Rudy is loyal to her. I dont believe most of what Rudy is saying, but I am sure there are partial truths to his lies, just as Luke determines the truth in Amanda "I heard screaming held my ears" lies.
I feel that they really thought that they could pin this murder on merediths boyfriend. They put blood in his flat downstairs, and Rudy I think thought he could lead people to assume that the boyfriend came in to the flat in a jealous rage cause he got wind that meredith was having sex with Rudy. I do not feel that Rudy was trying to implicate RS.
Long time lurker
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/
pages...in_page_id=1811
MEOW lol
The Seattle board is getting more interesting.
http://tinyurl.com/ytfgua
xin | 11.29.07 - 1:00 am | #
--very interesting thanks for posting.
Very intriguing supposition, chris.
I had missed the news about blood being in/near the boyfriend's flat. Is there an article that references this being the case?
I wonder if Rafe left his footprint on the duvet as he was covering Meredith's body, perhaps as a last act of contrition? Either that, or he may have been the one to drag the body as it had been wrapped in the duvet, leaving contrition completely out of the equation.
Indications are that the body was drug into the closet and then drug back towards the bed. It seems that maybe they could have drug the body into the closet while they decided how to stage the murder.....
blood being in meredith boyfriends flat was in the press in the beginning of this case. But god knows what is true or not, cause I am hearing nothing anymore about Amandas finger marks on Meredith face anymore either. But, let me go look for the article.
That Seattle board is humorous, little more than that. Tons of ignorance and assumptions to go around on there.
Post of the year!
"Nigga is bein' framed by doze white beeatches. He was taking a dump, and lizznen to fitty cent. Den him am herded a noiz and wet out to see what am goin' on and some eyetie got all up in his grill so ah boned out, yo. It ain't his foety five nike in da room. It a foety 2. Dat eyetie kidz size yo. "I wuz juzz layin some pipe am den I got all sick and had to make a dooty" "I wote AF on da wall cuz dat stabbed girl wuz sayin dat am den I got ma nigga azz up outa dah.""
whoops:
couple of posts from other thread:
Amanda Knox: Happy, jovial, and smiley in prison, has her own en-suite. and everything is wonderful wonderful wonderful.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
...meredith129.xml
She has the upper body strength to do pull-ups on bars in her "sorority"-as she describes the atmosphere between her & fellow prisoners - dorm.
=========
seems AK is very happy in her cell. keep her there :D
====
question: in any of her statements made to friends or HMs of meredith kercher, or in any of her uni-for-prisoners writings, has SHE EVER said she's saddened by merediths death?
===
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol...n=null&
offset=0
amanda knox on prison life.
she has asked the prison priest about the concept of forgiveness.
sorry if already posted
Loz | 11.29.07 - 9:25 am | #
Loz,
It's all about Amanda. Amanda's feelings, Amanda's inconveniences, the way Amanda is being treated, etc..
Now she is happy that she is being treated with "dignity," which in her own words, "Is important."
TYPICAL SOCIOPATHIC PERSONALITY.
It reminds me of the way that Drew Peterson is behaving.
IDk.... mushrooms, cheese... most likely a little wine. Sounds like "sexy" food to me.
-LUKE
YEAH cheesey breath, real sexsay!
if she had chocolate coated strawberries, MAYBE Id give you that.
Loz | 11.29.07 - 9:28 am | #
==================================================
==========================
""Luke said: Indications are that the body was drug into the closet and then drug back towards the bed. It seems that maybe they could have drug the body into the closet while they decided how to stage the murder...""
I wonder why they had reason to put the body in the closet though. was it lockable?
did they consider mopping up the all the blood I wonder?
I have been searching still havent found story yet that refers to blood in boyfrineds flat downstairs, but I do see many bloggers referencing that story-- when i find story will post.
Well Papa Sollecito has certainly been quiet the past couple of days.
Interesting, the Forza Nuevo fascist party guy visits (and has somehow got permission) Foxy in jail, gets her yapping and then runs to the paper.
Who thought that idea up?
Could it be ... Satan?
I thought Saturday was visiting day. The only guy who benefits from that visit is RS.
Correction: maybe not part of fascist-leaning group who put up the posters. The visitor is described:
"I love mountain-climbing with bare hands, without a rope. It's my passion," she told Osvaldo Napoli, a member of parliament for Forza Italia who entered the prison to check on the conditions inside.
http://tinyurl.com/2gjfc5
Incarceration in a foreign land and looking at the possibility of doing a lengthy bid would scare the shit out of just about any normal person. She's acting like it's a party and one held in her honor, at that.)
"See you in Disneyland."- Richard Ramirez.
Amanda seemingly shares the same sentiments...
RS's lawyers have said that the kitchen knife found at his flat is not the murder weapon and that Meredith's dna was not found on the tip of the blade but on the handle. I read this on teletext...not sure if it's in the english press yet...
Ok-- here is one reference to the blood in other apartment. will get additional references that as I recall said specifically that it was the flat downstairs, and MK had the keys to feed the cats there, and blood was smeared on walls. But this is a start.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
tol...icle2811736.ece
Xin - I noticed that your comment on the Seattle board (about whether AK is right/left-handed) has been deleted (or did I just miss it?)
Re: mozarella and mushrooms.
If Meredith did eat at the house, I think this increases the probablity that Mr X and Ms X were there too.
I doubt whether MK would have eaten just with AK and RS (especially since she couldn't have been very hungry as she'd already had a pizza at 6.) But if there were also these two guests in the house, MK may have thought that she should be polite and sit down and chat with them, and eat with them...
Just a theory...
Damian, yeah I saw the Gargano from one of the Croatian islands, it was an amazingly clear day.
Well Papa Sollecito has certainly been quiet the past couple of days.
Interesting, the Forza Nuevo fascist party guy visits (and has somehow got permission) Foxy in jail, gets her yapping and then runs to the paper.
Who thought that idea up?
Could it be ... Satan?
I thought Saturday was visiting day. The only guy who benefits from that visit is RS.
xin
very interesting.
damian
a question....
was this cottage where the murder took place known for parties before the current student year?
it would be good to know
.
Incarceration in a foreign land and looking at the possibility of doing a lengthy bid would scare the shit out of just about any normal person. She's acting like it's a party and one held in her honor, at that.)
"See you in Disneyland."- Richard Ramirez.
Amanda seemingly shares the same sentiments...
Luke | Homepage | 11.29.07 - 1:35 pm | #
unless she see's her being moved about, given respect, given a bigger cell, more visiting rights (hang on wasn't her mum allowed to visit), more lawyer contact, people & the priest guy in there liking her, and her lawyers telling her there's little forensics etc etc...maybe she sees it as a sign she is going to be released soon.
and what if she is?
from the Times online:
Investigators said that Ms Kercher almost certainly shared a meal with her killers on the night that she was murdered. Giuliano Mignini, the investigating magistrate in the case, said that the post-mortem on Ms Kercher had revealed a mushroom in her oesophagus.
He said that Ms Kercher was known to have eaten an early supper of pizza and ice cream with two British women friends, both fellow students, at six o’clock on the evening of her death. But Sophie Purton, one of the friends, had testified that the meal contained no mushrooms.
Mr Mignini said that Ms Kercher and Ms Knox were fond of mushrooms. He found it very probable that mushrooms had been part of a late-evening snack in which Ms Kercher joined, perhaps before or during a sex and drugs party that “went wrong” and ended in her death.
He said that champignon mushrooms of the kind found in Ms Kercher’s oesophagus had been found in the fridge at Mr Sollecito’s flat, where the kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon was also found.
http://tinyurl.com/34tjyd
The supposition that Meredith ate with anyone at the cottage seems a leap if the only mushroom found was in her esophagus. Perhaps I'm missing something here.
That the mushroom is the same type as those found in RS's fridge is not damning in itself, but is yet one more link connecting Meredith's death with RS.
I'm leaning toward an argument (over money, over men, over everything?) that went way, way too far. Meredith came home, found a known drug dealer cozied up and using with AK, discovered money missing from her room, and a fight ensued. RS was involved in at least the clean up, maybe more.
They covered Meredith from view--out of sight, out of mind, and then they didn't have to look at what they had done to her.
My thoughts on using initials (albeit carefully): Early on, someone expressed that using initials for the suspects and using Meredith's full name as the victim in this case was a way to show a bit of respect for Meredith and her family. I agree, as long as we commenters can keep straight on who we are talking about.
"Reports said that the killer appeared to have cleaned himself up after the bloody murder not only at Ms Kercher’s house but also in the one below, to which he evidently had a key, since there was no sign of a break-in."
Thanks, chris...
and Whoah....
OK, the boyfriend supposedly has an alibi, but how solid? (especially if they still don't have the time line figured out.)
Oops, forgot my senility pill this morning. The anonymous post at 2:41 pm was me.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/ne...pect/
article.do
More on RHGs statement.
Rob...I really don't know but I wouldn't imagine so. As a student house, I guess it would depend on the occupants, who change regularly.
"On Sunday evening her housemates — two Italians and an American — were taken back to the cottage. Dr Lalli said this was because of “interesting elements” in his post-mortem examination, but would not elaborate"
If the american is knox, and one of the italians is RS.
was the third italian PL, or one of RSs friends?
"interesting elements", and how would that relate to the house?
Ok-- here is one reference to the blood in other apartment. will get additional references that as I recall said specifically that it was the flat downstairs, and MK had the keys to feed the cats there, and blood was smeared on walls. But this is a start.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ tol...icle2811736.ece
chris | 11.29.07 - 2:12 pm | #
blood smears on the walls.
"interestng elements" in the post mortem, to which the house & body relates. could it be there was some satanic stuff.
--soz about this. but in the sand i got 'sin', a trident, & either
"
"Rudy Hermann Guede, 20, the fourth suspect in the case, spoke about Miss Kercher's final moments to German police."
"He reportedly said he had tried to help Miss Kercher as she lay dying."
"He said: "There was blood everywhere, all over the floor. I went over and I saw she had a wound in her neck. I went to the bathroom to take a towel to stop the haemorrhage. Several seconds passed and the towel became soaked in blood, so I took another one."
"Meredith was trying to talk, but it was difficult to understand her because of the wound. I did not call a doctor because of all the blood and I was totally confused."
"When I last saw her she was still alive. She was still breathing. She lay diagonally on the ground, in front of the wardrobe. I cannot say if she was still conscious when I left."
Damn....sure glad I never had a roomate like Rudy....Would hate the thought of having been hurt,and would have intrusted him with my welfare....Damn....Is he so fucked up,he can't figure out ,how fucked up that sounds?....Some peoples kids..Damn
Luke,
I agree with you that RGH's description of the assassin fits RS to a tee. Thanks for your usual case surmise.
Hey Rudy.....Maybe Meridith was trying to tell you to call a doctor.....Sorry still shaking my head
Luke,
I also think that RS's lawyers realize that and have never publicly stated that RS did not kill MK. The are simply stating that RS was in his room all night and not at the cottage where poor Meridith was killed.
Loz>"On Sunday evening her housemates — two Italians and an American — were taken back to the cottage. Dr Lalli said this was because of “interesting elements” in his post-mortem examination, but would not elaborate"
If the american is knox, and one of the italians is RS.
was the third italian PL, or one of RSs friends?<
The residents were Meredith, Amanda,and the two young Italian ladies who traveled over that holiday.
SO Amanda was sprung from her cell for a bit? The other roomies and her and the cops. That musta been pretty interesting, if I'm getting this scene right.
Do you recall where you read that?
meman2
RGH could not do that because as he has already stated, he was invited to the party. After all, he was the drug pusher de jour for all these people. That is the only reason why he was invited. And he got there early too, at 8:38 pm as he stated. With all the new issued about the last digested food, it almost implies that there was indeed a party at the cottage. RGH has stated that they kissed and touched, but nothing serious. This belies the Police report however. This case gets more bizarre every day.
Luke: can you bring the timeline forward (I'm hoping you are keeping it in Word) sometime when you got nothing better to do?
The hearing tomorrow is closed to the public, so we will depend upon third hand info once again.
Haven't heard anything about the giallo couple lately,either. Maybe tomorrow.
bpcl.....Thanks and I agree with you....Just think Rudy is not right in the head.....His logic amazes me...My two last posts, were pretty much,caused by his statements...that you posted...thanks
Damn it.
More of those f'ing "gravatars" on this page, with links to amazon or something to get the image, slows down the load. Is there a way to opt out of those stupid things? They should be banned in any sort of serious blog.
Sorry, I know it's "fun."
meman2,
However, RGH could be telling the truth that he went into the bathroom to do his business(After all, at a party, we all do different things, drink, tall to friends, use the bathroom, go outside)
He said he was listening to music and then he heard MK's screams. He rushes out to face the assassin who as Luke just pointed out, fits RS to a tee.(Shorter than him, Italien, brown hair with glasses)He tries to help MK who is probably dying, but to no avail. What is the dude suppose to do? He is a person of color, who the hell will believe him(I am not defending him, I am just trying to get in his mind; and if you do not think this is true, you only need to think of PL in this case) He stated that he left, although we do not know the exact time. One person did report that a person of color ran by at great speed, almost knocking her partner down. It is my belief now, there was indeed a Mr. X and Ms X involved. Someone has stipulated here about a possible party there. Rudy as he has said, and I believe him, that he did not kill Meredith.
memen2,
And if we are to believe that there were at least 6 people at the scene (MK, AK, RS, RGH and Mr. X & Ms. X) only RGH has stated that he tried to help her( a person of color) All the others, just simply waited for her to die! The Police are on too all of this I am sure. It is just that you and I are sitting here together chatting, tantalizingly waiting for the facts to come out.
[Wow. That was fast,avatars seem to be gone now. Thank you Jesus.]
I simply cannot believe that a person who was not responsible for the murder would not call for medical help. If you do not want to be blamed for the murder, then the easiest way to avoid that is to call for help!
Xin,
You should thank Steve!
Thank you Jesus, and Steve.
xin.....You Are Welcome
Blah,
Responsible citizens would do that. However, in this case, do you think that RS, AK, RGH and the mysterious couple, who most likely, at least according to the Police, came there for sex and drugs(RGH supplying the drugs) are responsible citizens. I think not, and especially when they killed her. And as RGH has admitted, he had sex with MK. His DNA was on/in her. He was screwed. RGH has stated that the assassin said to him, "You are black, who will believe you, or to that effect). That is why Luke has stated, "Evil went down in that cottage that night" against Meredith. Suddenly, she was all alone, unprotected, and had no savior to help her. It was unfortunately for all who loved her dearly, her time to leave.
I just do not believe that RGH was threatened into not calling for help. He was either involved in the murder, raped Meredith, or was just callous and stupid.
Xin commented:
Luke: can you bring the timeline forward (I'm hoping you are keeping it in Word) sometime when you got nothing better to do?
Xin,
I am really not the one to ask when you need anything involving time, or especially, mathematical thinking. My brain just doesn't work that way for some reason. ( I chalk that up to a drowning incident as a toddler.)
Anyway...
So Rudy seems to be straying far from the fact that he had any kind of sexual contact with Meredith in his latest account, yet, his DNA WAS found IN her...
I'm telling ya, this is gonna be creepy if it all went down like I think it did. LE has to be keeping certain details out of the media, stuff only they and those involved with the killing would know.
Details that would make this more sensational than it already is.
bpcl..........But if you run...normally its because your either guilty,or you are hiding something.......But if they have to drag your ass back from another Country...your pretty much guilty I think
Blah,
Your beliefs about RGH are justified. I am just trying to enter his mine. He is not educated like RS, AF, MK etc. He is the drug pusher of the neighborhood; the low life if you will. He had been in trouble with the law before. The only reason why I think he was invited to the 'party'(if there was one) was to supply the drugs. He is the drug pusher for the group.
According to his statement, he tried to help her. The only person who has stated that. At the last part of his statement stated above, he said he was confused. I think he he did not know what to do, these people would never help him and he ran. He will forever remember his cowardice at a critical moment in a human being's life. I believe he is just "callous and stupid" as you say. One of the lower people running around in our society.
He has stated that he had sex with Meredith and it was consensual. I am not sure I believe him because it appears she was on her period. It is my belief that most women would not consent to sex during this time of their bodies history.
All this being said, in time, the facts will come out when these 3(5) rats will have to oppose each other in court.
All of them failed Meredith that day, and will live with that cowardice in their souls to the day they die.
This is a crazy ass week in crime news...
This case, Sean Taylor's murder, the ongoing Peterson case heating up, an internet porn model's apparent murder in Kansas, an Ohio couple with myspace accounts being sought for an armored car heist...
and the beat goes on......
memen2,
He is guilty by association and in law parlance that it interpreted to mean, that he was involved in her murder; just as you say. I am in accordance with you.
OK, somebody smart like Luke started a timeline. Give em up.
http://tinyurl.com/26np49
Now, we got Amanda talking to an Italian politician, and also La Stampa.
This hearing tomorrow, closed, darn, will feature big a and RS together again at last.
oh... and Rodney King got shot...
Luke,
It never ceases to amaze me about the levels human beings can stoop to, even though they/all of us, live in the garden of Eden(Earth) From a religious point of view(going back to the Bible's earliest stories, Cain vs. Abel etc.) this activity has been going on. It is the 'aggressivity' gene that is apart of our genetic code. One can only hope that we can overcome it, before it destroys us. All of your posts have thoughtfully alluded to this genetic makeup in our human psychology, do I dare say.
Luciano Ghirga, her lawyer, told Italian newspaper La Repubblica that Knox said to him: "I hope this affair is cleared up soon and I can go home. Where? To Perugia. I want to live in this city, I love it, it is the place that does it for me."
UK Telegraph 11/29/07
Is this girl completely crazy? She talks about her situation(this affair "being cleared up soon" as though she was in prison for stealing a box of chocolates from Meredith. Even if she is innocent, I would think that the brutal murder of her flatmate would horrify and confound her. If she were innocent, she would be frantic to prove it, and mortified to be a suspect. Even RS had the decency to at least mention the cruelty of Meredith's death. He calls his jail time a "walk in hell". Amanda calls it a "sorority" with Marvelous new friends!
And she's going to live in Perugia?! Does she not have any idea of how reviled she is by the citizens and students of perugia? Even if she were completely absolved of any role in the murder, she still falsely named Patrick, a beloved figure in the town, as the murder.
But its the only town that "does it" for her. When I read this article I was trying to figure out the reason and strategy. Is her lawyer portraying her serenity as proof of innocence, or is this part of an insanity plea?!!
At the very least, she is definitely one of the coldest, most heartless and narcissistic individuals Ive ever run across.
a2,
Luke stated above, and I respect his opinion when it comes to these small minded perps mindsets, that AK has a 'typical sociopathic personality.' I did not know what he meant by this type of personality, however, upon reading your comments, I think you describe AK's sociopathic personality, very well. Thank you.
xin was like:
>More of those f'ing "gravatars" on this
page, with links to amazon or something
> to get the image, slows down the load. Is there a way to opt out of those
> stupid things? They should be banned in any sort of serious blog.
>
I'm not sure what the "fucking gravatars" are to which you refer; all I see on this page is text and a couple of buttons at the bottom below the forms.
Perhaps the problem is with your web browser. Have you considered upgrading?
Someone made an intelligent observation that the word "sociopath" is flung around far too frequently on true-crime message boards. That same poster agreed that Amanda fits the bill to a tee.
These past couple weeks we have been "treated" to prime examples of folks with Antisocial personality disorder. Honestly, if you were to look up the word, you would find Drew Peterson as example 1A and Amanda Knox as 1B.
I am intrigued by the female sociopathic personality, as it is the rarer of the two. (though it does seem that their numbers are increasing as of late.)
Seattle - Perugia --- twin cities
Good girl - Bad girl - two sides of a coin
Yeah, Perugia is where she wanna be...
XIN said: "Loz>"On Sunday evening her housemates — two Italians and an American — were taken back to the cottage. Dr Lalli said this was because of “interesting elements” in his post-mortem examination, but would not elaborate" If the american is knox, and one of the italians is RS. was the third italian PL, or one of RSs friends?< The residents were Meredith, Amanda,and the two young Italian ladies who traveled over that holiday.
SO Amanda was sprung from her cell for a bit? The other roomies and her and the cops. That musta been pretty interesting, if I'm getting this scene right.
Do you recall where you read that?
xin | 11.29.07 - 3:28 pm | #
-------------------------------
frm chris above: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle2811736.ece
-------------------------------
so maybe at that point none of them had been arrested or charged. i think it would have been Sun 4th november. on the day/day before they were charged.
erm - is everyone here aware that tomorrow is the day the judge will decide if any of the suspects are freed from prison?
Rob...I really don't know but I wouldn't imagine so. As a student house, I guess it would depend on the occupants, who change regularly.
damian | 11.29.07 - 3:05 pm
could you ask around? sorry to bother but if anybody in the town knew it as a 'party' house earlier this year it would support the big a defenders and could be significant...
.
In my search for the old news reports that there was blood a downstairs flat, I came across this. A reference to how police said knox held meredith down. this as i recall was also based on knox fingerprints on meredith face. Now we see nothing about this. I frankly do not believe that they found Knox fingerprint on Meredith anymore, cause if they did, we would still be hearing about this.
I really think that the police have cleaverly planted stuff in press that they know is not true, with the intention to get somehow to say " but that is not true, it was like this.." a common way to break cases on either side of the pond.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
...wkercher108.xml
Orders were issued for a series of dawn raids on Tuesday and Knox broke down under interrogation. She burst into tears and made her confession at 5.45am after the interrogator said: "You did it, you held her down."
Xin
Here's my revised timeline:
8.45 AK, RS, RHG, Mr X, and Ms X arrive at house.
8.50 RS chops up button mushrooms with his knife, and he and AK stir fry them.
9.00 The five have snack of garlic mushrooms and mozarella cheese.
9.15 MK arrives, and tastes the mushrooms.
9.30 AK, RS, RHG, Mr X, and Ms X begin party in AK's room.
9.45 MK tells partypoopers to turn the music down (she's real tired after Halloween party the night before).
10.00 AK tells RHG, who's watching the foursome and looking a bit bored to "go get MK."
10.05 RHG enters MK's room.
10.07 MK tells RHG to leave. He takes her cellphones and goes back to AK's room.
10.10 AK, RS, Mr X, Ms X accompany RHG to MK's room and force her to do some things.
10.30 Third final stab.
10.31 RHG rushes out of house (MK's cellphones are still in his pocket, so he dumps them nearby).
10.32 Foursome leave victim's room, locking the door behind them.
10.30 - 11.00 AK, RS, Mr X and Ms X listen to MK's screams, until she goes quiet.
11.30 They return to room, and move body.
11.45 - 02.00 Clean up.
02.00 Horlicks and toast.
02.30 Buona notte a tutti
anonymous said: "I read contradictory accounts of the blood stain found in the bathroom - i read that it was AK fingerprint or blood from a nosebleed that AK had."
-agreed could it have been a drop of AKs blood in which she imprinited her finger?-----
all these articles about sex games gone wrong. I am feeling is to prepare people for the fact MK may have participated up to a point.
RHGs confusion over whether he had sex with MK and the tampon evidence. well, is it lost in translation? is there a tampn, outside or inside the body, with whatever trace of RHG on it would to me indicate non-consensual since it clearly wasn't flushed, if outside the body, but 'strewn'. could there be two links to his dna, one nt semen on the tampon, another, semen, in MK??
I can promise those who fear Amanda Fox will be chewed up and spat out in the uK? European press that all we are interested in is what really happened to Meredith. I have read that Meredith was beginning to get fed up with all the different boyfriends Amanda was bringing home and wanted to talk to her about it. That's the worst I've read. However spare a thought for the McCann's - in three papers today I saw they'd sold Madeleine into slavery themselves, were the killers and a book was being written to prove this and and yet another libellous remark about their DNA and Madeleine's having been found mixed "somewhere" (really, that accurate!) and this is seven months on from Madedeine's disappearance...
Fiz (UK) | 11.27.07 - 5:36 pm | #
but fiz, i think you can take MKs frustration with AK over this. As MKs friends were the ones to relate it, and were named in the press.
-----------
this ties in with AKs laywers saying she's being smeared by the italian Police & press. actually, while it doesn't make her a murderer, it was the statements of PL, and people who knew or knew of AK that related these stories TO THE PRESS ie they are not police leaks or fabricated. the boyfriend, friends & hms of MK also related AKs lack of sorrow over MKs death & her strange behaviour after the murder. It all helps build a profile. -----
i too would like justice, but can not escape the fact that AK is 'interesting' in this case.
oh yeah, and that goes without mentioning the shopping for lingerie.
I simply cannot believe that a person who was not responsible for the murder would not call for medical help. If you do not want to be blamed for the murder, then the easiest way to avoid that is to call for help!
blah | 11.29.07 - 3:52 pm | #
agreed, and further, that at no point during the attack they felt remorse enough to stop it.
a broken hyroid bone would make a snap. perhaps tis occured post-mortem?
RHG's tactic is obviously to place increasing blame on RS, while maintaining his own innocence (i.e. consensual sex with MK). His hope is that AK will side with him - and then it's "two against one".
This makes me think that he did indeed rape MK and that AK wielded the 8 inch knife. RS wielded the smaller penknife.
I draw parallels to this story: "She went down with a scream. The first cut sent them into a frenzy as they tasted and smelled blood. I saw the dogs eating bits of her." http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/new...86908-20176691/
I simply cannot believe that a person who was not responsible for the murder would not call for medical help. If you do not want to be blamed for the murder, then the easiest way to avoid that is to call for help!
blah | 11.29.07 - 3:52 pm | #
Unless, he knew of the plan to murder. forcibly had sex with her. then thought 'hang on, murder is too much' and tried to save her. Or, well he knew how suspicious he'd look after having sex with her (forced or otherwise), especially with his criminal record, whether or not he knew of any plan to murder her. Maybe he was even running in fear of his own life. did he go to that club after washing his clothes (if he did) for safety. when did he split to germany?
I'm telling ya, this is gonna be creepy if it all went down like I think it did. LE has to be keeping certain details out of the media, stuff only they and those involved with the killing would know.
Details that would make this more sensational than it already is.
Luke | Homepage | 11.29.07 - 4:08 pm | #
like an attempt at the occult?
The supposition that Meredith ate with anyone at the cottage seems a leap if the only mushroom found was in her esophagus. Perhaps I'm missing something here. -annymous
agreed, how long is the esophagus?
Luke, not like you can have faith in leaked reports, but they do say that sex between rudy and meredith happened before sex.
THis is how I think some happened. Rudy is a drug dealer, but he is also not doing well finacially. Amanda owes him money for drugs, he needs it now, besides the money for drugs for the night in question. Amanda steals the money from Meredith, and besides that, Rudy and Amanda are hanging out at the flat having a drug party with others.
Rs has no knowledge of any of this, and if at all he is involved, he did some clean up, but didnt know it was about a murder.
I know I could easily be proved wrong, but hey, I am saying it.
Loz--I thinbk that luke is referring to sex with meredith after she was dead.
The esophagus, a narrow, muscular tube about 20 centimeters (8 inches) long...It takes only seconds for food to pass through the esophagus, and little digestion actually takes place.
--so, the kitchen knife had a mushroom stuck to it / on it.---
she could have had the meal which explains the mozzerella...then after a stray mushroom stuck to the knife, she was stabbed, the mushroom entered her esophagus directly through her wound. Unless they put the knife in her mouth first.-----
a dirtly knife. an impulsive weapon? a plant to make it look impulsive?---
and who did it? not the person with the pen knife...
I just wonder why the mushroom wouldn't have sloughed off on to the outside of her neck though.
lol....help
Has anyone guessed that she vomited?
My first thought on reading about the esophagus. Now I will read back.
LOZ-- Ihave no idea as to what you are talking about concerning knife and mushroom. clarify you theory.
"like an attempt at the occult?"
No, I wouldn't say "occult," especially now that this "mystery couple" appears to have been smoke and mirrors.
If anything "bizarre" happened, it was partially out of morbid curiosity (Rudy and Rafe, Amanda to a lesser degree) and partially in order to stage the crime (Like Rudy writing in blood on the wall, for example.)
I happen to believe that there is something "heavy" that we have yet to learn. I've speculated that the rape occurred postmortem. Rudy's latest story is omitting sex completely, for a reason.
could be that Rudy is now saying no sex because lawyers say no proof as to what info is leaked that Rudy DNA inside of meredith.
The police have leaked alot of stuff, that i am now finding to be untrue. Case closed? hmmm
But i do think that Rudy violated her, and amanda covered up. Why? really no reason except gut instinct.
Loz--I thinbk that luke is referring to sex with meredith after she was dead.
chris | 11.29.07 - 7:18 pm | #
god 
Has anyone guessed that she vomited?
My first thought on reading about the esophagus. Now I will read back.
xin | 11.29.07 - 7:24 pm | #
good thought & more plausable. who knows how 'whole' or digested the mushroom was.
LOZ-- Ihave no idea as to what you are talking about concerning knife and mushroom. clarify you theory.
chris | 11.29.07 - 7:24 pm | #
sorry. that the knife used to kill meredith, had a mushroom on it. having being previously used to cut/slice mushrooms with for the meal.
making th murder weapon THE knife in RSs place. if this is what the esophagus thing means.
Whew RS really is a rich boy. I'm fascinated by the new details, including testimony from his maid.
In addition to the knife, two bottles of bleach were also found in Sollecito's home. Mignini's summary noted bleach is useful for removing blood stains. Sollecito's maid told investigators the bleach had not been there before, and that she uses other products to clean the house.
Sollecito has said he was home and on his computer the night of the killing. Mignini disputed that, saying investigators had determined the computer was connected to the Internet but no one accessed it overnight.
A bloody footprint found near Kercher's body matched Sollecito's shoes, though the shoes themselves did not have any traces and had been washed, Mignini said.
That's from AP. http://ap.google.com/article/
ALe...1LAp6gD8T6U24G0
Shall some of us dismiss the idea that Rudy tried to save MK? Because it is nonsense. He split, simple.
AndtT: thanks for bringing forward the timeline. I'm wondering if we should put the mystery couple's spotting RG on the run should be added?
In my mind, RS is at the House of Horrors until some sort of credible evidence says he was not. (Phones turned off at same time, for starters? I can't see RS as being that comfortable around RG, although drugs and sex can be powerful motivators.)
(I'm afraid that in some cases, I default to the "guilty until proven innocent" school.)
""If anything "bizarre" happened, it was partially out of morbid curiosity (Rudy and Rafe, Amanda to a lesser degree) and partially in order to stage the crime (Like Rudy writing in blood on the wall, for example.)"""
what about AK being the 'fulcrum' though. the one who knew RS & RHG. how well did RS & RHG know each other?
did they plan it away from amanda that night?
why did she not run for or seek help?
Chris,
I know you would like to believe that RS is not involved with the murder of Meredith. That being said, look at it this way. He has never offered an alibi to where he was during the hours in which MK was murdered. He has stated that he was at home working on his computer. The Police have stated that while his computer was turned on, he was not surfing the net. There are very, easy ways to prove whether someone is on a computer or not. I could never convince me that he was on his computer surfing the net, because all surfing is tracked by the 'Cookie' concept. His lawyers have not produced anything to the contrary. They must use the 'Cookie' concept to prove that he was surfing, and thus his innocence.
Secondly, he has said he was surfing, so he cannot say he was sleeping. He lied to the Police when he said he answered a call from his Father around midnight; the call, as detected by the Police, went unanswered. His Father also sent him a text message, saying 'Goodnight' which RS did not answer.
If he had witnesses to prove he was somewhere else, they would have been brought forward by now.
The bloody shoe print has been matched to his shoe, based on the Judges remarks. One could argue that it could have been any shoe, alas for him, it is just one more piece of damning evidence against him.
Many days have passed since Meredith's fateful end, and his lawyers have produced nothing to the contrary.
In Law it is said, if you have the facts, argue the facts, if you do not, argue the Law; that is precisely what his lawyer(s) is/are doing.
His statement at the very beginning, "If I am here, it is the fault of my girlfriend Amanda,' is no different than Adam's remark to the deity when asked why he ate of the fruit on the tree; 'The woman you sent me, gave it to me.'
is there a link to a story that the mushroom was in the esophagus?
Ah, so the giallo couple were just a little tantalizing side trip...this really is sorta Keystone Cops, eh?
Isabella - good one thanks
bpcl | 11.29.07 - 7:46 pm | #
You are correct. I don't know why I have been feeling that he is innocent of murder, and of not being aware of covering a murder. But, if the evidence that he was not on his computer is true, then you are correct.But I have seen so much stuff leaked that is not true, that I will not believe until tomorrow, cause I would think that the judge would know what is BS
I also thought that RS' statement that he wasn't in the "room" when Meredith was killed. Seemed an odd way to phrase it. Was he in the house when she was killed?
chris - someone mentioned in a post above, maybe from 27th nov, about the mushroom in the esophagus.
I noticed that, too, a2, but it could've been poor translation.
Chris,
This is a tale of lost lives; many people here have eloquently alluded to it in their comments posted here. So much has been lost and the tragic thing about it is, this is our youth we are discussing, our future. You are correct to say that so much has been leaked that has been untrue.
I know computers very well, and the very thing that a computer expert will tell you is, look at the cookies on his computer. They will track what he was doing during the time that he stated. I am sure that he has good lawyers. A good lawyer will hire a good computer expert. A good computer expert will tell a good lawyer, he was surfing the net because not only do the cookies on his computer reflect this, but you will also see the same thing on his ISP provider. I waited to here this from somebody on his team before making the judgment that he was or was not on the computer. Since this has not been produced by his team, I must assume that the authorities are correct in saying that he was not surfing, as he said he was. This could have been his alibi sans a human being. Unfortunately for him, computers can be very good witnesses.
Good point, Emily. I hadn't thought of that.
Given that the LE has information that has not been leaked to the press, is there anyone here that believes that either of them will be let out of prison?
a2,
I highly doubt either of the two will be let out of prison based on the current evidence. The Police held tenaciously onto PL before letting him go. There is way too much circumstantial evidence, some of which we are privy to, and a lot more of which we are not, to let them go.
well AK expects hersel to be as in her statement from behind bars:
"she is aware of the fact she'll be a celeb, that the press & photographers will hound her, but has vowed only to speak to lawyers and at the trial"==in aks head she'll be a celeb. but please let me out, i promise i won't speak. i hav been practising my singing in jail. i am going to audition for x-Factor.
dream on...
I don't think that I said that very well...Sorry.
Given that the judge will probably see evidence that we aren't privy to tomorrow, does anyone believe that RS or AK would be allowed to go to "house arrest" or be allowed to be free until trial?
she basically wants bail.
even local nuns said, if let out on bail, she can reside with them.
it's all setting her up for freedom and/or bail
a2,
The Judge in this case has consistently said that both AK and RS are flight risks. From what I understand, both of them can be held for one year.
If you read the Judge's pre-released comments, you will observe between the lines, that the more the Police has studied the case, the more probable it is, they feel, that both RS and AK were involved.
That being said, based on the statements of the Judge, I do not forsee either of them leaving prison anytime soon.
**if the mushroom not sicked up, but put there with the mushroom knife way after meal time - and that knife is the knife at RSs house. then RS nor AK (given her dna on the blade) will be allowed to be under house arrest.
**RHG - he's not even in italy yet. and if he were, he wouldn't be let out as there is evidence of him at the crime scene, which he puts himself in also, and he is known to do the splits to othr countries.
-----and further evidence of AK expecting bail is this. it can take upto a year right 4 this to come to trial. again, SHE RUBS IT IN sayng how she'd like to stay longer than expected in perugia. what a bitch. she was originally meant to be back in seattle around this time----
the prison priests statement about her BIG PLAN is to SPLIT oh no wait travel all around the world is ominous---given he can't directly break the seal of the confessional. and that it was reported she asked him about catolic forgiveness...
Thanks, bpcl.
Because of my work schedule, I have not been able to read all that i would like. I appreciate the information and insight.
i believe her lawyer told her he thinks almost 100% sure that she'll be bailed. and that nuns would take her in.
whether he lied to her who knows.
but look at her goddamn statement in reaction!
says alot. she probably is 'serene', thinking of her plan to split.
or even just to remain in perugia around all of merediths friends, partying.
key statements being "i trust my lawyer / have confidence in him / he makes me feel confident"
that she's not wanting bail out of desperation since well actually she likes her prison sorority anyway & it suits her just fine.
that she will stay in perugia "I really love this place" (paraphrased) "I want to settle here".
Her statement from prison was so blithe and in such sharp contrast to the recent statement from each of meredith's parents that I feel it was extremely offensive.
If there are any nuns in that convent that are attractive or popular, they better watch their backs....
"The nuns will take her in.."
Please.
That's like MK whispering the name/initials of her killer to RG.
Course, Amanda told the priest she wanted to be a nun. I wonder what the qualification are. She didn't even know the contents of the Gospels.
"wow, Luke...wow, Mark..."
Ya know, Rob,my guess is that this house, a rental for these (transient) students, and the boys downstairs...probably is known as a party house with that kind of turnover. MKs boyfriend downstairs played in a band, maybe the band practiced, and so it goes.
yep xin. think it may have been a party house. when at uni I had to move out of a party house in a few months that I was attracted to cos i was a poor student and the rent was cheap. Naivety on merediths part? who knows. my house in uk was effectively a coke den for middle to upper middle class coked up students. In Knoxs myspace she went to the house hunting 4 a place to live and met the girls there, bonded over a spliff according to her, who said deffo to her. they had maybe one other possibility they had to 'think about' - makes me think meredith was a bit too clean for them??? maybe she did spliffs, who knows??? but that's nothing.
and finally for tonight for me:
regards rumoured call from merediths phone to her bank. what if the plan was to drain merediths account. and to split / go on the run with the money. to help them fund a split. what if AK & RHG were in phone contact afterwards, cos at some point he expected them or her to join him on the run. was he lied to. did they change their minds. were they gonna clean, get away with it, and split??
shows how gullable he was.
--the mortician taking 3 suspects to the house on the day of/ day before their arrest. if the dirty mushroom knife theory holds. what if he was looking for the mushrooms & the mushroom knife. I read an article saying how the Italian police have video footage of the mushrooms/similar mushrooms being found in RSs fridge. the knife was found at his house too.---
good night all, can't wait to see what happens tomorrow xxxxxx
a2 "Her statement from prison was so blithe and in such sharp contrast to the recent statement from each of meredith's parents that I feel it was extremely offensive"
--------------------------
I agree totally. It might have been nice (even if untrue!) for her to express some sympathy for the grief the Kerchers are going through. . . but no, she is feeling 'serene' and has a 'second mum' as one of her inmates. Talk about rubbing salt in a wound. Meredith doesn't have a mum anymore - and here Knox is mouthing off about having 2! I can only wonder what her lawyers make of her.
I mean, even the nuns are fooled by her. I guess if she was fat, ugly and spotty - the nuns might not offer to house her!
OK, sorry I do not know the exact source of this, it has a CNN dateline, and they say she stays and so does he.
(rob: now it's a villa)
CNN (story date 11/29) claims to have a leaked report from the prosecutor:
PERUGIA, Italy (CNN) -- Police investigating the killing of British student Meredith Kercher in Italy earlier this month have evidence that places two of the suspects at the crime scene, according to a prosecutor's report.
Meredith Kercher was found dead in her villa November 2 with a knife wound to her neck.
CNN has obtained a copy of the report that Perugia's chief prosecutor will present at a hearing Friday to decide if Amanda Knox, 20, Kercher's American roommate, and Knox's boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, 23, can continue to be held in custody.
In the document, Giuliano Mignini says Knox's DNA matched a blood stain found on the sink in the bathroom next to the victim's bedroom. The report also points to a footprint found by forensic police near to Kercher's body that it says belonged to Sollecito.
"a2 "Her statement from prison was so blithe and in such sharp contrast to the recent statement from each of meredith's parents that I feel it was extremely offensive"
--------------------------
I agree totally. It might have been nice (even if untrue!) for her to express some sympathy for the grief the Kerchers are going through. . . but no, she is feeling 'serene' and has a 'second mum' as one of her inmates. Talk about rubbing salt in a wound. Meredith doesn't have a mum anymore - and here Knox is mouthing off about having 2! I can only wonder what her lawyers make of her.
soozie UK | 11.29.07 - 8:56 pm |"
Totally agree soozie & a2. I'm beginning to think Knox is mentally ill. That prison interview was totally bizaare.
I'm beginning to think Knox is mentally ill. That prison interview was totally bizaare.
Emily Booth | 11.29.07 - 9:20 pm | #
This may be exactly what she's trying to portray...a little insanity, anyone??
She's a sociopath, and she is responsible for her actions.
I agree xin...and her actions are beyond sickening.
I honestly don't think Amanda is playing the crazy card, but I don't think she's dealing with a full deck either...
She seems to have the self preservation instincts of a toddler or a puppy; recognizes her own needs (the "me" stage,) but hasn't quite gotten a grasp on concepts not involving Amanda.
I find it hard to believe that she isn't lucid enough to understand the severity of this "affair," but she really does seem removed from reality.
I to,really do not know what to make of Amanda's ramblings....Doesn't sound to good...But at this point,maybe I will just play it safe,and say it may have just been the edited version....
The more we hear her speak - the more vacuous she appears. Now we have a potential 'Singing Nun' who reads, watches TV, and has 'fun' with her new roomies.
I don't think she's mentally ill - I think she's an incompassionate little monster, who's grown up insensitive to other people's pain. She has not a shred of empathy for the Kerchers - and her actions after the murder (guilty or not) were clearly those of someone not bothered at all that an acquaintance had been murdered so viciously. No grieving, no remorse, nothing.
I find it incredible that she carries on as if nothing has happened, and doesn't spare a thought for anyone else. She accused an innocent man for starters - where the hell is her conscience? And on second thoughts. . . maybe she IS mentally ill.
...I am so glad you guys are over here - my puter refused to go past 11/22 on haloscan -I was super pissed - if I refreshed it would go less and less -
so many good posts - thanx guys -
the blood on the handle/blade must be from it seeping thru where the blade and handle meet - washing would not get rid of this - actually hydrogen peroxide gets rid of blood better than bleach -
in my mind they all committed murder when they left her there to die -
hydrogen peroxide you say?......Thanks pdx-77...............just kidding...glad you found the new thread
"I don't think she's mentally ill - I think she's an incompassionate little monster, who's grown up insensitive to other people's pain. She has not a shred of empathy for the Kerchers - and her actions after the murder (guilty or not) were clearly those of someone not bothered at all that an acquaintance had been murdered so viciously. No grieving, no remorse, nothing."
sociopath is shorthand for that
@ bcpl: You are too hung up on cookies. I have written and maintained many websites over a period of a decade. First, not all websites send cookies. In fact, the vast majority don't. Second, most browsers allow the accepting of cookies to be turned off, and many innocent people have it that way, as they dislike big corporations tracking their surfing habits. Third, there are many ways of using a computer other than web surfing. Hell, until a decade ago, most people used their machines as stand-alone boxes.
But if he was surfing, you are right that the ISP records will show it.