mentalblog.com comments:
Boston is a bleak picture indeed, and some of the other troublesome phenomena you write about are sometimes true.
But have you seen Chabad on the West Coast? I have - it is amazing. And even in Boston, is not the relatively new Chabad of Harvard capturing hearts already? What about thousands and thousands that are being helped all over Russia? (Yes, I read your posts about that and know that some Rabbis live too well for your taste there, but does that stop them from doing vital work?) What about thousands of Israelis right after the army service that are a constant presence in Thailand?
No doubt, there are some serious loosers on shlichus, but there are many great people doing great work, and many of them even manage not to burn out with time and retain their idealism. How can you not see that?
The point: to be fair one has to look at the whole picture.
On the subject of West Coast Berl, you need to see what some hasidim write to me here: The Sate of Lubavitch in CA
Also, among the generation of young shluchim that have yet to make visibale impact on the Jewish sceen, I personally know many real gems. And I know it does not help those that Jews are disappearing today…
OK, I already told you: I read all your posts on Lubavitch. Again you focus on the Cunin clan, and ignore hundreds of shluchim there who are having a huge impact "on a large Jewish community".
Here is what I read between the lines of your answers to me: "Berl, I will not respond to the substance of your comments, I have my agenda, find a more productive usage for your time".
On the subject of "Chabad of Harvard capturing hearts". Few years ago I was at Hershy’s Shabbos table. It was full of Harvard students, liberal to the bone as they are. It was the summer when Barak was about to relinquish the Temple Mount. I was voicing my angst, I spoke strait up. Hershy was hovering around trying to shush me up, afraid that I can expose his liberal audience to undesirable thoughts. I could not believe this was happening in a Chabad House.
The 150 Jews are permanent residents. The constant stream of Israeli tourists keeps them busy.
And do you believe that exposing these totally brainwashed students to a some "straight talk" about Israel will increase their chances of coming back for what needs to be a slow and deliberate deprogramming process? Or will it make them more likely to never come back to the Chabad House and more likely to join the ranks of the "disappearing jews"?
I believe that a Jew, particularly a thinking Jew who gets into Harvard strives for meaning in life. This Jew is not scared of straight talk. This Jew is scared of emptiness and protective fakery. This Jew sees that emptiness behind the veil of "slow and deliberate deprogramming process". This is precisely why Harvard Chabad has the reputation of capturing wallets far better than hearts...
ah, but one could live in a place like sydney where the only non-L rabbis are the non-orthodox rabbis, whom the Ls proclaim from their bimahs as "godless goyim"; a place where the two clans (gutnicks and feldmans) borrow money from banks to buy mines then steal money from each other and demand the community pay it back (and the stupid community does); a place where the Ls dominate kashrut, the bet din, the 'yeshiva', and almost every other communal organization; where the Ls let baalei tshuvah oversee vital functions like the mikvah AND impose narishkeit supposed brochot and so, RUIN every positive jewish experience one could have.
what noone seems to notice about Chabad is that wherever they go they are never willing to participate as part of the community - its their terms or no terms.
Have you ever seen a Chabad shaliach participate as a secondary participant (or a passive participant) in a community wide event?
Not in my experience in large and small town America, or in Israel.
oosj,
Good for them, nor should they!
When you say "part of the community", do you mean the so-called "yeshivish" one? Should Chabad help misnagdim in undermining Chabad efforts? And, from what I have seen, that is the only reason that your ilk want to "cooperate" with Chabad. The facts are way too numerous to recount. I have witnessed the devastating results of such cooperation.
I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that while in Russia, the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe gave financial support, at the risk to his life, to a bunch of misnagid vermin like Aaron Kotler and company. These low-lifes paid him back by letting the Lubavitcher bachurim starve (a few to death, H"YD) and by making the Rebbe's life as unpleasant as possible upon his arrival to America.
Glad to know Chabad learnt the lesson. Even more glad do see it offends you.
I don't know where you get your information from, however regarding Thailand, the article was from 1999, which referred to how many people were attending passover seders, additionaly it seems that there were only two shluchim there, which is not exccesive for so many Jews which were attending the passover seder.
Furthermore currently there are 3 chabad centers in Thailand (see http://www.chabad.org/centers/de...t.asp?AID=9431)
of which you have 3 shluchim taking care of them. they are Rabbi Yosef C. Kantor, Rabbi Nechemya Wilhelm, Rabbi David Haddad. Usually you have thousands of Isralis touring Thailand all year round. Think, if they were able to get 750 people in 1999 with 2 shluchim, then 5 years later with one more, and the rise of popularity of Thailand as a place to go after the army, they probaly have plenty of people on their hands.
Before criticizing Chabad for everything, think a moment and ask yourselve, is this a valid critisicm, or is it just good because there are alot of comments. After so many years of Galus I think that people shouldn't have Sinas Chinum!
I forgot to mention there is a fourth shliach by the name of Rabbi Gaon Yosef Ma'atuf in Koh Samui Thailand.
I dont know where you get your info from, but in most cases chabad tries to work WITH the community, not against it. The fact that they don't always accomplish that is not for lack of trying- there are two sides to the coin, remember?
Tzemach,
It sais Tzemach is the name of Moshiach...perhaps if you will start to love yourself...then it will lead to Veahavta Lereacha and maby you will become Moshiach.
"I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that while in Russia, the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe gave financial support, at the risk to his life, to a bunch of misnagid vermin like Aaron Kotler and company. These low-lifes paid him back by letting the Lubavitcher bachurim starve (a few to death, H"YD) and by making the Rebbe's life as unpleasant as possible upon his arrival to America."
The money the RAYATZ gave came from the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and was his to give on the condition that he help all Jews *equally*. Sadly, there is growing evidence that the RAYATZ was far from equitable in his distribution of funds.
As for his arrival in America, see Rigg's book. There is no evidence for the allegations against R. Kotler. The $1000 the RAYATZ claimed the Va'ad Hatzala owed him came from a community-wide fundraising effort. No specific agreement appears to have existed for the $1000.
Further, the RAYATZ had his own Pidyon Shvuyim fund (apparently even before the Va'ad Hatzala issue) and raised his own funds for it. One of the problems with that fund – beside the seperatism – was that the RAYATZ used some of that money to fund his yeshiva and to fund schools. In other words, a significant portion of the money went to non-Pidyon-Shvuim-related work at a time when tens of thousands of Jews were being murdered.
Then you have his rejection of the work of Mike Tress and the opposition to political action to save Jews.
And let us not forget his Moshiach campaign, started in the early 1940's. The RAYATZ claimed this was the only way to save Jews from Hitler – nothing else would work.
The Rabbis March on Washington in 1943 is credited with the formation of the War Refugee Board, which saved 200,000 Jews from the Nazis, y"s. The RAYATZ opposed that march.
Now, back to the issue at hand.
If Chabad of Thialand raises $250,000 for tsunami relief and spends less than that amount on actual relief, $50,000, say, what happens to the remaining $200,000?
If the $200,000 goes to other relief organizations dealing with the tsunami victims, fine.
If the money stays in Chabad's pockets or is used for Chabad projects, buildings or staff, not fine – it would be geneiva (theft) of the highest order.
Will there be a full accounting of funds raised and monies spent? Will there be an independent audit? Will monies raised for tsunami relief be used for that purpose only?
Those are the real questions at play here.
Mr. Atlas,
This is really sweet:
http://chabadnik.com/eng/item.as...tem.asp?
id=7904
Why do you never see stuff like that?
And it is in MA.
Dear Sir Tzemach,
I really appreceate more when you attract positive energy rather than the reverse.
Why not find some good some where, anywhere.
How about the Shliach in Boston who for the past eighteen years has brought in more commited serious Bal Teshuvas than all the other Rabbonim in this city put together. Are you saying that he is unique in the entire conglomeration of Shluchim? And if so, then praise him in his quest for the highest level of integrity and commitment.
As I always say,"Always leave them laughing; or at least, smiling".
Lachiam to positive response.
db
Tzemach, maybe you had an Oholei Torah education, so you don't realise that Thailand is a big country, and that it includes more than Bangkok. Rabbi Kantor is the rabbi of the Bangkok Jewihs community - that takes care of the the 250 Jews who live there permanently. Then there are the backpackers (far more than 600 of them, by the way), which takes one more shliach. That leaves the rest of the country, which is overrun by Israeli backpackers, and can't be adequately covered from Bangkok (this isn't some puny little state like Massachussets). Chiang Mai and Ko Samui have their own shluchim. I'm not sure where the other two are stationed, but I can well imagine that there is enough work in some of these places for two people.
As for the refrigerated truck, and your oh-so-clever 'joke', which you and your friend Shmarya have so much fun tittering over, are you completely f---ing clueless? As you keep reminding us, there's a genuine emergency out there, and genuine needs, and so Rabbi Kantor went out and bought the very expensive but necessary equipment he needed to deal with them, and all you have to say is 'shove it'? And you still want people to take you seriously? You've just exposed yourself for what you are, a worthless piece of rubbish, and a heartless son-of-a-sow.
You and Shmarya have just demonstrated the Maamar Chazal, that he who has excessive mercy where it isn't called for, will end up being cruel where mercy is called for. Your hearts overflowed and burst with pity and outrage on behalf of the poor cows in Postville, and now you have no decency left to deal with the Jews in Thailand, and with 18 guys who found themselves there and are doing whatever 18 guys can do to help. All you can do is carp about a hypothetical $250K that you think they will raise, and what they ought to do with the surplus. Why don't you follow where you suggested the truck be sent?
In the various blogs one is bombarded with criticism of various Chabad shluchim and the concept of shlichus in general.I am getting tired of these tirades.Let people make a living.
While I find myself agreeing with most of this criticism except when it does not recognize that some Chabad houses, some shluchim and some activities they do are posative in nature.Yes they do posative things at some important levels.
What dismays me is how a great spiritual movement has turned itself into a Jewish Salvation Army.
Lehavdil it is as if the Jesuits with all their "spiritual" and scholarly skills have morphed into the Salavtion Army.
Lubavitch under the its first set of leaders was dedicated to the study of Jewish mysticism in a personal sense. The Rebbe was not a superman rather a personal trainer to help each Chasid realize his spiritual potential. Miracles were not stressed in Lubavitch. That was for "Peylishe" chasidim.
Thus there were elite Chasidim concentrating on Prayer (ovdim) who may have worshipped for hours praying on a personal plan of Maamre Dach of chasidic texts and lessons. Others were masters of Chasiidc scholasticism (Maskilim) who strove to understand the Divine and its Guiding light and force.Questions worked on in Lubavitch were what is man, what is Godliness , how does divinity impact on this material world etc.
Still others strove at various lower levels to accomplish better prayer and study.
In addition the study of Nigleh was never ignored . No other Chasidic group can boast that men like Rav Yuda leib Zirelson, the Rogochover, Rav A, Chaim Noeh of Jerusalem , Rav NissonT elushkin,and still other well known scholars.Even in modern times men like Rav Gustman, Rabbi Abramsky, Rav Brozovsky of Slonim, Rav Povarsky all served as ramim in Chabad schools. Yet that is no longer the situation.
Yet it seems that today the stress is excuively on activism , with little stress on personal growth , on self perfection and scholarship. Of course there are a few scholars in Lubavitch today like RabbiS Heller , Shapiro and Kalmenson . There are also a few young "Varime" chasidishe Yidden in Jslm, 770 and Kefar Chabad.But most Lubavitchers are more expert on a Press release or news conference than they are on a shvere Tosphos or do better fund raising than davening be-arichus.
Until 1994 at least Lubavitch still had hiskashrus to a Rebbe.
Now it seems there is no rebbe, no avoda, no learning, no Chassiduth. So Lubavitch has morphed into a Jewish version (lehavdil) of the Salvation Army. One is most likely to think of Lubavitch in terms of a telethon instead of a chasid praying for 3 hours on a weekday. He encounters a chasid dressed like a cyclist, a clown , a surfer or in black tie fund raising etc rather than a chasid stooped over and learning Chassiduth.
While Lubavitch always had a communal component it was never the major stress. Rather individual spiritual growth was what chabad was all about. "Arbiten af
Schneur,
Do you think that in the “days of glory”, there was in Lubavitch a higher percentage of real scholars and "eivdim" than today? I doubt it: there is a basic human tendency to idealize the past. The high caliber individuals you describe are always the minority. Everywhere.
Also, if a man can write a mean “press release”, does that disqualify him from being able to cry during kerias shma shel hamitah?
I have seen evidence of great “personal growth” exhibited by young bochurim simply from them being in contact with other Jews, from having to learn to relate to other souls.
''I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that while in Russia, the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe gave financial support, at the risk to his life, to a bunch of misnagid vermin like Aaron Kotler and company. These low-lifes paid him back by letting the Lubavitcher bachurim starve (a few to death, H"YD) and by making the Rebbe's life as unpleasant as possible upon his arrival to America.''
How can someone portray themself as not only orthodox but chasidic and still say such disgusting words?!
Rabbi yosef y Shcneerson got to the United States before Rabbi Kotler did just fyi.
Go wash out your mouth and study some chassidut, maybe it''ll refine you
I have passed through Thailand withou touring there, but Rabbi Kantor and the other shluchim there serve a large constituency. El Al flies some 5 flights a week (I believe) between Tel Aviv and Bangkok - and they are always full. If I am not mistaken, Chabad Bangkok actually prepares all the fresh kosher meals for outgoing El Al flights. There are MANY tourists, businesspeople and backpackers who avail themselves of services provided by Chabad Bangkok. And shluchim can live with their families in unpleasant far-flung places for many years before some unpredictable disaster makes their immediate presence there valuable beyond calculation. Perhaps Boston isn't as impressive as it might be, but that doesn't mean that Bangkok is undeserving of praise. (And I am no habitual defender of Chabad...) - J
Berel's comments with all due respect are another example of the PR mentality of Lubavitch "deHoidna".Rather than seek to explain and understand a real situation , one seeks to obfuscate it with a few gleich vertlich which the Kotzker said was 'krum"
One need not go the time of the Baal hatanya to see the yeridas hadoroth in Lubavitch, Anyone old enough to remember men like Hachasidim Peretz Motzkin, Leibe Kahan,Folle Kahan, Mendel Futterfass,Zalman Butman, and countless other "ordinary"Lubavitcher chasidim (I specifically did not mention men like Nissan Nemenov, Shmuel Levitin, Shlomo Y. Zevin, Shneur Zalman Gorelik who were clergy)etc etc) knows that there are few in Lubavitch today of this category and calibre. If there were, would they not be "rauy" to be some sort of spiritual leader in a movement bereft of such leadership after 1994 ? Ver redt shain fun a Itche Masmid or Zalman Lodzer or Chache Faigin ???And most importantly this is not what is expected today of bachurim and yungeleit in Lubavitch.. What is expected is what the Rebbe called "bulldozers" people who could do things, not meditators, thinkers, daveners,lomdim rather activists and PR people. people who kno how to get money.And al achas kama vekama, anyone even a baal habois who was exposed to Lubavitch in White Russia also knows the truth even in the 1930's in ordinary Chassidishe shtetlech not under Communist rule. As my late father speaking in Yiddish said "Dos is nit the real McCoy " after witnessing what passed for a Chassidic farbrengun in the 1980;s outside of Brooklyn .
Concerning idealization of the past, if Torah true Jews accept your statement , we would be in big trouble.There was no greater idealizer of the past than the 6th Lubavitcher rebbe (Rav J.I. Schneersohn) in his writings.
We have an incredible, vibrant and successful Lubavitcher presence here in Northern Virginia, or, as we used to call it "B'midbar". A lot of good work, a smart, charismatic rabbi, a very powerful program. Boston and other places may have their problems, but there's nothing but forward movement and forward thinking down here, I'm glad to say.
i live in a small community and we have also chabad, and i can tell u i just have the best impression from the work what they do here.
and the fact that we are small doesnt mean we are not important at all. so maybe u start to think before u are attacing and talking bad about a country.
and here is a question too u:
why u dont help the russian jews, go and find a organisation?
and than tell me who will help u
how u can talk about my country like that?
whore house
with your dirty mouth u will never get your peace.
You are a low class menuval who not brings no honor to Chabad with your filthy mouth, not only have yo cheapened chabad on the web but have made an enormous chilul Hashem and demeaned every relgious jew. When one talks of hosuses of ill repite it is a sign that that is where there mind lies and you make yourself suspect to your own personal lifestyle. Shame on you
Thank you for caring, Moishe.
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