mentalblog.com comments:
The secular will only addresses the Rebbes personal belongings. In it the Rebbe bequeaths his possesions to Aguch, and names Yudel Krinsky as the executor. The will does not discuss who should head the three Main organizations, that is addressed in the Hebrew tzavoah. The Hebrew tzavoah was made in the presence of Rabbis Hodokov Mindel and Pikarsky. The Tzavoah was checked over by the Rebbe numeres times, and was singed by the three above mentioned rabbis, and given to the Rebbe.
Yudel Krinsky claims that the Rebbe gave him the tzavoah, but he "lost it". All that there is now is the tzavoah with three signatures but without the Rebbes. Now it is very hard to believe that someone "loses" such documents. The only reason why it would make sense to "lose" them is if they are not in your favor, which they were not. Acopy of both wills can be found in the book “Cheshbono shel olam”
Actually the Rebbe said that he has "no time" to deal with the drafts submitted by Rabbi Pikarsky.
There is no signed copy of the will concerning the Chabad community. The only duly signed will deals with the Rebbe's personal property. As I have written elsewhere, I gave the unsigned copy of this communal will to the FORWARD triggering the release of this will by Krinsky. Until that point a week or so after the petirah , this will was not released.
As I have noted , why do not the young people in CH demand the appointment of a commission to investigate the will issue of the last rebbe. If there was a communal will , ( was there a signed version ?) there may just have been a rebbe will which was lost by some machers in CH. I will not bother to repeat stories about Piekarski, labkowsky etc about this issue.
On thing is for sure Yudel "lost" something.
Barry Gourary told me that his grandfather left a will. It was in his desk drawer. He added that the first person in the office after the aliyas neshoma , removed the will. Who was that ? He seemed to indicate that the document left neither son in law in charge.Did it leave the only grandson in charge ?
Schneur, can you ask Barry Gourary to substantiate or confirm this? Did he see that will with his own eyes? What about his grandmother? Was she part of the will? I am sure if he could prove it this would have been part of the library battle.
Reb Schneur, it is today quite clear that the "rabeistveh" of the Rebbe was part of the shidduch tenoim between the Freirdicker Rebbe and Reb Levick.
BTW, the Rebbe Rashab loved Reb Levik and was the one who had originally suggested "Levik's zun" for a shidduch for his middle grand daughter.
There is, therefore, no doubt as to what name was in that will. As to who took the will - there are speculations out there that make sense (opportunity / motive), but mipnei kovod beis horav I shall not repeat them.
"I am sure if he could prove it this would have been part of the library battle."
Absolutely correct.
The will had nothing to do with personal property, so why should this be related to the library battle . Have you guys ever heard of an ethical will ?(See the Bobroisk yizkor buch for a beautiful will of the Bobroisker rebbe Rabbi Shmaryahu Noach Schneersohn) I fAIL TO SEE HOW WITHOUT HAVING A COPY OF THE WILL BARRY COULD USE THIS IN THE COURT BATTLE ?
The story of Reb levik and the rebbistve . I will not comment on this item, as you say mipne kvodo of some major figures in Chabad history. I "ll just say that Barry has some poignant remarks and stories about that supposed parsha too. Veod chazon LeMoed.By the way the Rashab also suggested Reb Shmaryahu as a son in law !
Did anyone out there see the wonderful piece in the new issue of DER BLIK about the Liozner Rebbe rabbi Saul Deutsch. He also wrote a piece in the same issue. At least the Satmarer are recognizing him as the Liozner rebbe.
Reb Schneur, please stay away from the topic of Barry Gourary. The more I read of your interactions with him, the more I begin to see the light in all the vulgar pronouncements of Berel Shemtov about Barry Gourary & Co. And I so hate to agree with Berel Shemtov! :)
Thanks for the tip. The book is available at Harvard library "Heshbono shel olam" by Binyamin Menasheh. A friend will make a copies of the wills for this blog.
Barry Gourary never said a slanderous word about the Rebbe. The Satmarer were urging him to say this and that about the Rebbe. Did he ? The answer is no .The Satmarer wanted him to release these and those family pictures of this and that person Please answer me did he ? Other trouble makers wanted him to write a book about the family saga , Did he ?Some fanatics in Williamsburg promised him X dollars if he would say this and that , did he ? No.(I write here in general terms because I do not want to hint at anything)In fact the only bad thing he said was printed in a sensationalist israeli newspaper and I am not certain he said that for publication. And all this was after a Lubavitcher bachur a Tamim beat rebbeitzen Gourary (causing her to lose an eye and I saw this injury when I was mevaker chole the rebbetzin) on Shaabes in 770 beAsra deRav !!!
All Gourary and his mother wanted is a share of Yerusha that is guaranteed by Jewish Law.Certainly there are other Lubavitcher and frum families involved in Yerusha battles too. Does that make him a bad person for standing up for financial issues he felt were rightfully were his (By the way his grandmother Rebbetzin Nechama Dina Schneersohn in her will felt the same way).The fact that a secular court ruled differently shows that even Judge Sifton felt there was room for a judgement , he did not throw the case out summarily !
The fact that Gourary sees the supposed Reb Levik story in a totally different light angers you. But exactly who was there to witness this story , Rabbi A.S, or Rabbi S.C. were they there ? So why not keep an open mind about this issue ? Does it in anyone affect the Rebbe;s tenure as Lubavitcher rebbe ??? And by the way Lubavitchers on this and other blogs are urging readers to keep an non judgemental attitude about people preaching New Age Judaism , and about people married to Shiksas, can we also not be melamed zechus on one Barry S. Gourary the only grandchild of the Rayaatz. Is there not enough Ahvas israel in Lubavitch for that ?
I heard Rav Szemtow calling Gourary the Sitra achra !
Reb Schneur, you wrote: "Does that make him a bad person for standing up for financial issues he felt were rightfully his?"
Reb Schneur, I do not wish to pass judgment on the entirety of the person with whom I am not even acquainted, but an act of taking a siddur of Baal Shem Tov in order to sell it is, to me, an immoral act. I think even people far removed from anything Jewish understand that you do sell spiritual legacy for financial gain.
On a deeper level (this is only my observation), chassidei Chabad deeply resented the feelings of entitlement to some sort of spiritual leadership role the people you mentioned exhibited. Had the issue been simply financial – no one would object to supporting beis hoRav bechovod (especially once the financial situation improved). The issue was more of a spiritual sort. Chassidim are not property you can simply inherit from your husband / father-in-law / grandfather! Hiskashrus is given to someone to whom you want to be bound in an atzmiusdike way. And it is highly offensive to try to take away that choice from the Chassidim. It is even more offensive and spiritually blind not to have been sufficiently inspired in, say 1968, by the Rebbe’s astonishing connection with Am Yisroel and by his Teiroh. The Rebbe could not get the spodek??? Enough said.
In one thing I agree with you: all of this has zero impact on the Rebbe’s Nesius.
The beating event was, naturally, so much beyond the pale that no comments are necessary. And no one here thought different at the time. But I fail to see how that would provide an incentive for Berry Gourary to bashmutz the Rebbe. If anything, the opposite would be true. Don’t you think he’d be afraid some other lunatic would go after him?
In any event, not to agree to bashmutz a person to whom Am Yisroel looked for spiritual guidance is - while positive - a small evidence of great moral fortitude / tzidkus.
Selling the siddur of the BESHT MAY not have been a moral act in the world of Chabad, but if it belonged to the Gourarys as they felt it did ,it certainly was not anti Halachic or against the US. legal code. (I am not passing judgement on the Legal owner of the siddur) After all the Rayaatz also BOUGHT it from someone who sold it for the money. I believe either Mundshine or Oberlander has written on this parsha. Originally it belonged if I recall corretly to the Skverer Twersky family.
As we speak there is a case in Supreme Court involving yerusha from the Twersky family (the Kaayre of the Meor Eynayim) which was transfered out of the immediate family,. In addition there is a din teyre in Jerusalem between the young Koidenover rebbe Rabbi Erlich shlita and a Chabad rabbi (Halperin) who claims he owns the Koidenover shul established by the previous generations of Koidenover rebbeim.. Certainly a shul is also a spiritual legacy. Yet material things are bought and sold, kach darcho shel olam .Any auction of Judaica and there are many, reveals items for sale with an ownership by famed rebbes with a sacred legacy, but the children need the financial recources and are forced to sell. This is a davar yadua - well known and no one ever accused a Rizhiner or Thchernobler eynikel of acting in a immoral manner for selling a possesion of the Rizhiner or Talner rebbes !Even a Jew like me has purchsed seforim owned by well known chassidic rebbes. The Lelever rebbe sold his family heirloom Shaas after World War 1 to the visiting young Baba Sali as he needed the money ! (Obviously if ownership is legal )Its sad but not immoral.So while the potential sale may have been emotionally upsetting it was not as such a immoral act.
I spoke to Barry Gourary at length in the 1980's and 1990's . Never did the issue of spiritual leadership you refer to ever arise. barry had and has no desire to be rebbe of chabad even though some supporters in other areas of Brooklyn would have given him millions to open a beth medrash in Flatbush called Lubavitch. Neither he or his mother raised that issue. The issue was simply a material question of yerusha and the Code of Jewish Law has the answers. Mrs. Gourary whom I spoke to also never claimed spiritual leadership and of course rabbi Gourary made peace with his place more than 40 years ago.
This issue of spiritual claim was raised by Aguch and other interested parties as a smoke screen , as it befuddles the purely material claim that the Gourarys had stated which the Shulchan Aruch could be used to resolve.Spiriual claims are more difficult to resolve al pi halachah.
As the new Machnovker rebbe Rabbi Rokeach of Bnai brak wrote his cousin the Belzer Ruv about 10 years ago after a bitter conflict over the use of the title Belzer rebbe , maybe I am not the Belzer rebbe, and maybe I am not a rebbe, but nothing anyone does can destroy my yichus and my place as a eynikel of the 3rd belzer rebbe.. Nothing said or done removes Bere Gourary from his place in Chabad.
I did not expect you to agree with me on this, but do you have any feedback on my other point in the same post?
I was, clearly referring to those that never made peace with teh Rebbe's rebeistveh. I understand that RASHA”G did. All the others did not.
"Nothing said or done removes Bere Gourary from his place in Chabad." No one wants to do that.
By 1968 the Bais Israel of Ger, the Satmarer rebbe, the Bobover rebbe , the Kluizenberger rebbe, Reb Yaakov kaminetsky, the Old Skverer rebbe,Rabbi Itzhk Hutner amongst a long list of gedolei israel both mitalmide haBesht and Yeshiva people did not become supporters of Lubavitch. Does that give Lubavitcher chasidim the right or excuse to hate these people too ? This despite the rebbe's outstanding connection to am Israel. Excuse me .
My final comments on Bere Gourary. The Lubavitchers or some hired meshamshim bakodesh tried to run his daughter off the NJ freeway on one occassion. And during the shiva for the Rashag , a car was parked outside his home in Montclair with 2 Russian Jewish thugs taking photos of the few brave souls who came to be menachem avel the Gourarys. (Among these brave people was laibel Bistrizky) I was there ,the NJ state police were called and the men admitted to working for some one in Brooklyn and were ordered by the police to leave.
Bekaayso "in one's anger" , if my mother were beaten I would have reacted with anger and released the data the Satmarer friends wanted. But Barry controlled himself as a good Chabad chasid should and did not sander the rebbe. the same can not be said of Aguch ,.. ie Barry is a mechalele Shabbes, he is the SM he is an ocher israel, etc. Tam venishlam Barry Gourary as far as ai am concerned.
Reb Schneur, my hole point (that started this discussion in the first place) was that since I did NOT agree/support Berel Shemtov ideas regarding Barry Gourary (I even used the word "hate" regarding those ideas), I simply suggested that you refrain from reporting Barry Gourary's less than glowingly positive remarks about the Rebbe, lest I ח"ו be נכשל and fall prey to something even slightly resembling those ideas. At this point I am not there and do not feel any hate toward Barry Gourary or AT ALL.
But you did make a big jump in just a few weeks from demanding to know why Lubavitchers were not naming their kids in droves after Rebbitzin Nechomo Dinah to now accusing the whole Lubavitch of "hating" the family. Can you appreciate the fact that between "hate" and "adoration" (expressed in naming) there is a lot of space? How about just "sadness"?
I give you one more: I have always felt that ה' טבת was a יום טוב that was ALSO a sad day. I have gotten flak for expressing such thoughts, but that is how I have always felt. Reading your posts on what Barry has said has already undone some of that feeling, I am sorry to say.
Incidentally, it is not a huge compliment to anyone to say they behaved in a more appropriate manner than some members of Aguch administration.
And one more note: I do not for a moment believe that anyone in position of authority would have sanctioned those dirty deeds you allege. The reason is very simple: the risk of being caught and banished form Lubavitch by the Rebbe(as you know happened to one individual). Some lunatics – maybe, Aguch members – no way!
what's the story with gourary's children?
If Yudel sold the Besht's Sidder in the name of Aguch, no one would know about it or be able to stop him. He treats Aguch as his own personal yerusha. Does he have a greater right to Lubavitch money than Barry?!! I think that all Barry was guilty of (if anything) was a misjudgement in timing: he could have waited until Gimmel Tamuz.
Barry has no children, he adopted 2 girls. HOW does everybody "know" that Yudel treats Aguc"h as his own?
Rabbi Barry Gourary was niftar last night. Yehi zichrono Baruch
please confrim this?
We regret to inform you of the passing of Rabbi Barry Gourary, father of Nora Friedman.
The funeral will take place on Tuesday morning 9:30am at Wein & Wein, 129 Engle St., Englewood (201-541-6555).
Shiva information will be forthcoming.
May the family be comforted among the mourners of Tziyon and Yerushalayim.
Schneur, why do you have to resort to untruths? Channeh never lost an eye.
The only true Messiah is Sam Popack.He lives for ever .Has enough money to buikd the Temple.Is a bigger ganov than Krisky.
sam popack is a sumlord
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