mentalblog.com comments:
Schneur, I have only few second before Berl of Crown Heights floods the comments with thoughts, middle thoughts and after, after thoughts. But let me ask you why can't you tell Barry that he is the Prince and it is his obligation to the Jewish royal history to write about his life. Many, many people would like to sincerely hear his story before the apparatchiks erase all traces of truth.
This is just a reminder that certain comments, particularly comments from people signed anon and comment that I deem stupid will be deleted. I.e. someone posted just now that Barry should have asked permission to go to 770. This is stupid; it was the home of his parents. And therefore the comment was deleted. Yankel, AKA Buttil, AKA hmmm, go away. You are stupid beyond repair. They are plenty of Lubavitcher blogs on your level, go there…
Lat week in CH a Mashichist told me this story. Yudel Krinsky used an expensive book from the Rayatz library as a collateral to secure a real estate loan for his son. Rebbe found out and reprimanded him. Is this true? Anyone heard the story?
Rebbe said then that Barry was standing in front of 770 and said “this is my house”. Nothing “underhanded” about that. Do you ask your uncles permission when you go to see a library of your grandfather? I am sure he felt it was his by right.
But I am pass that argument, pass the library and pass your annoying defenses of everything Lubavitch. I want to learn history that only Barry knows.
Are you all crazy, don’t you understand that there might have been personal animosity between Rebbe and Barry. Do you know how strong are these feelings within the family. Do you know that these feeling might last life time? Wake up. Suggestion that Barry was going to go to RAMASH to ask permission is stupid. Beyond stupid.
The amount of times you use the word "stupid" will not change the fact that you completely misquoted the post that you censored and are now trying to present a new reason why you felt the post was "stupid".
And no, Barry did not need "his uncle’s permission to go SEE his grandfather’s library" (love the euphemism - bravo!). And yes, there are procedures according to any law (Jewish or civil) to lay claim to something that one feels is "rightfully theirs", and these procedures do not include removing said property from its domain because one "feels" it is theirs.
If Yudel tried to use a sefer as mere collateral before, he will now try to sell the book outright, as he heads Aguch, and the books belong to Aguch. Perhaps he has already done so, and we just haven't heard about it.
I think that the least Barry deserves is a seat on the board of Aguch.
all this talk about barry gourary. does anyone know where he is now? is he doing well? he should have just turned 82 a few weeks ago, does he have grandchildren?
still live in montclair? plans on writing his memoirs?
Did Yudel Krinsky use an expensive book from Rayatz library as a collateral to secure a real estate loan for his son?
Atlas, you wrote: "I want to learn history that only Barry knows."
That is your prerogative. As I made no comment to that effect, I am not sure why you brought it up to my attention. I only commented on your annoying lack of intellectual honesty in the way you choose to censor (and in the case of my exchange with Schneur - even cut and paste out of context) comments on this blog.
I provided a link o the original post. Here it is again with all the back and fourth. If you noticed I also cut my own arguments with Schneur. I post his stuff because I think it is by far more interesting than what you and I can come up with.
Does someone know if Besht's siddur was actually sold. If yes who bought it?
"Didan Notzach" is touted as a victory for "the chasidim", even though I know of no chosid who is better off now that Barry lost. Are the seforim even accesible to the public at large?
Correct Yossi, the library and with it the history of Lubavitch is locked and controlled by the apparatchiks. For a Jew is probably easier to get into the hidden Vatican depository than it is to get into the Aguh library.
Schneur -
Yashar kayach !
Atlas wrote: "... the library and with it the history of Lubavitch is locked"
That a simply bold-faced lie (I did look for an alternative expression but failed in my quest). The AGUCH Library is an open research library. Clearly you never tried to get in there - but I have. Call and try making an appointment before you make more loony statements. As to "Chabad history" - that not the theme of this collection AT ALL.
"yossi", I suggest you also look into a possible connection Yudel might have with Kennedy assassination (hints: Boston…, Lasarov in Texas…). And I also heard the Rebbe gave a haskomo on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, but it was stolen from the author (I can’t reveal his name mipnei kovod habrios) right before it went to press by non other than Benzi Shemtov’s shviger. Wonder who bought it? And more importantly – from Whom? [insert loony tune here]
Berel's gratuitous ad hominem attacks, while certainly illustrative of the tone of discourse you might hear at one of his farbrengens, does not address my post: why did regular Lubavitchers get involved in a fight that was not theirs?
Atlas: http://www.chabadlibrary.org
Atlas, please go through the catalogs on their site and pray tell me, would it serve the public good better if part of this collection was dispersed in private hands? (This is not to enter a legal / halachic ownership debate - just to address the ethical issue of public access you brought up)
The Russian State archives used the same logic to confiscate the Schneerson collection.
idiot, can you read?: "This is not to enter a legal / halachic ownership debate - just to address the ethical issue of public access you brought up"
I spoke with Bere Gourary a couple of months ago. He sounded weak and tired. I asked him about a specific rumor regarding his uncle the Rebbe. Bere said it was false, and that his uncle never would have done that thing. He said nothing bad about the Rebbe at all.
As for the "open" library, it is open (for the most part) – unless there is any hint that what you do with your research will be bad for Aguch. It is certainly not open in the way it should be according to Chabad's testimonies and arguments in the cout case.
And Shneur is correct – what right did the Rebbe have to rip away Bere and his mother's yerusha? He could have paid them for their share of the library.
But the Rebbe did not do so and chose instead to destroy his sister-in-law's life and seriously damage his nephew's.
What Bere will not say I will – THE REBBE WAS WRONG AND MALICIOUS. I'm sure that has been clearly pointed out to him now that he has joined his father-in-law in the Olam HaEmet.
Chas Vesholom
Learn Torah and do Mitzvos and stop trying to pry on things we do not understand
Firstly I do not claim that I am a Lubavitcher , but I grew up in a pseudo Lubavitch community. I was always interested in books and I was always interested in the Schneersohn family ( I was named for the Alter rebbe).
I recall asking many Geza Lubavitcher in the 1970's after I first met Rabbi Chaim Liberman in the YIVO Institute where i served as a junior librarian , the question of what happened to the RaYaatz's library. the answer was that the yorshim - inheritors have not decided how to divide the books and kesofim.PERIOD. No talk of Aguch which at that time was the chevra kaddisha run by rabbi S. Gourary .
As Barry once wrote no court decision changes the facts in terms of ownership as seen by the community in which I (Barry S. Gourary) grew up in and in which the library was held.
That community by and large believed the books were family posessions. So did Mrs. N.D. Schneersohn. So did Chana Gourary, so did Chaim Lieberman the man who bought and created the collection. In the first edition of the NYTimes article on the case it is reported that Mushka Schneerson told Chana Gourary to take whatever books you want as they are being destroyed by vermin. So I will let readers draw their own conclusion about Rebetzin M. Schneersohn's personal views on ownership of the collection. So only 1 family member believed that some organization defunct for 36 years owned the library ! I guess he was correct !
Is Chaim Lieberman still alive?
No the RACHAL died a number of years ago. He spent his final years in Eishal Avrohom Home in Williamsburg. A number of satmarer chasidim took care of him.
I saw him there and he looked well. His mind was razor sharp and he let me have it too...
He is buried in Israel.
A tragic life, never married, a scholar, (His 2 volume Ohel Rachel is a classic in Jewsih bibliography and Yiddsih linguistics) and a gentleman. Zecher Zaddik Livrocho !
Schneur, how do you know so much?
schneur, why do you say that RACHAL's life was tragic?
If I know something its because I had no other life. My parents were east European survivors who were pahute Lithuanian jews but valued knowledge and reading. Since 1979 I only read and learn. I rarely enjoy this world of materialism. Who knows if its worth anything ?
Reb Chaim never married even though he wished dearly to marry Chana Schneersohn. He was alone after 1950 when his rebbe and master died. He was alone in his alst years in Aishel Avrohom. Only the Gourarys remained his friends..
Reb Chaim related many of his zichronoth in a newspaper of Yellow journalism that was published as a response to Panim Chadashoth in the 1980's by renagade Satmar people. While the articles were somewhat jazzed up, they apparently reflect Reb Chaim's tone and agenda in regards the rebbe vechuli.
I have the 4-6 issues that appeared. The attacks were bitter and I will not repeat them .
Very very interesting.
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