mentalblog.com comments:
Satmar is much larger than Chabad. In Williamsburg all agree that there are about 50,000 Satmarer. Monroe that is Kiryath Joel has over 25,000. Monsey several thousand. lakewood about 1,000. Montreal 2-3,000, and about 10-15,000 in Boro park for a total of about 100,000 in the USa. I guess Lubavitch with hip Chasidim has about 18,000 in North America.
In Israel Lubavitch has about 30,000 and Satmar only several thoueand. In Europe satmar has about 3,000 in Belgium and the same in the Uk. With smaller numbers in Vienna, Zurich and Manchester. In france there are probably a few thousand luabvitchers and the same in the UK.
So even though Luabvitch is alrger in israel, the numbers of satmar in the Us are so great to off et this fact.
By now with the great birth rates marking all Chasidic groups, that Ger is larger than Lubavitch too and the 3 Vishnitz groups together are up there too. Skver is not small either.
I remember Bobov has a small chassiduth of about 3-4,000 people. I bet that today there are about 10-12,000 Bobover , the same is true of Belz and Kluizenberg .
Lubavitch has a lower birth rate , but the arrival of new BT's added some man power and lots of women power.
Lubavitch is still the most visible Chassidic group, although I for one question how Chassidic it remains.
Schneur, whatever you write is interesting but my patience with some of the brain dead commentators here is running short.
You were replying to a deleted comment. It was deleted because the comment had strikes against it:
1.The commenter informed us that 770 is on Eastern Parkway indicative of the fact the commenter didn't even read the post itself.
2.It raised the issue about who is bigger, Satmar or Lubavitch, again off topic
3.Finally it was signed as Anonymous.
Shneur, it may well be legitimate to question how Chassidic Lubavitch remains, but how Chassidic is Satmar?
Plonimus,
(SURE, thats MUCH BETTER than Anonymous)
Maybe take a whirl at defining Chassidic... that might be a more interesting comment. After that, the debate as to who is more Chassidic can have a context.
My question was directed at Shneur, thanks. I was interested in his definition and views. I did not express any opinion on the matter.
I am not going to define chasidic . My comments about Lubavitch were using their definitions. Lubavitch based on kabbola and a psak beNigle by the Zemach Zedek was against trimming a beard. This psak is clearly ignored by many younger Lubavitcher. The Rebbe and the Maaryatz clearly were against attending college including YU. There are hundreds of youthful Lubavitcher on college campuses not on shlichus in the NYC metro area.
Clearly Lubavitch in its classical mold was marked by speaking a distinctive language -Yiddish a distinctive levush even in the US. Many of todays young and hip Lubavitchers are into Polo shirts, chinos and slang English.
I will not even bother to mention the attraction the urban low youth culture has to many young Lubavitchers. (Music, smoke etc) If this is chassiduth pray tell me what is not Chassiduth.
Most Satmarer ; I would say 95% still speak Yiddish dress distinctively do not go to colege. wear peyoth etc.
I know they have problems too , but those who leave are no longer in the mainstream. Lubavitch on the other hand coddles surfer rabbis, motorcycle rabbis , hip hop musicians etc. members in good standing !
Schneur, as usual, you make some good points. I think we are witnessing the early stages of a split in Lub, between the "real" Chassidim and the "hip" Chassidim. The former match your criterion for Chassidic quite well and would not consider the latter (beard-trimmers, T shirt wearers, college goers, etc) to be Lubavitch Chassidim.
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