mentalblog.com comments:
Your great-great-grandfather has one beautiful hadras panim. That's for sure. This picture is a treasure.
zeiyer intreasant, shpeter avrum un bentche zenen nit geven azelche chaveirim.
I just spoke to my grandmother, a daughter of Reb Avrohom Mayorer.
What you wrote about Reb Avrohom, that his parents were from mayori and he was raised in Druye is incorrect.
Avrohom mayorer was born and raised in Mayori until he left to Lubavitch and his family (at least some members) lived there until WWII.
He had some connection to the city of Druya, I am not sure how, but mayori and druya are both located in Lita.
mayor is about a five minute drive from druya. they are both located in belarus, white russia. before avrhohom mayor went to lubavitch he learnt in cheder/mesivta with szemtov in druya. i read this in kaminetskys book.
att.mayore, nobody said he was raisd in druye it says he learnt there
Yes Drizin is from Mayore not Druya but he went to heder in Druya.
Look at the: map North of Vilnus AKA Vilno is Daugavpils AKA Dvinsk. To the East of Dvinsk (under number 15) is Druja (be careful because if you go West of Dvinsk you end up in Panevezys), now look under Druja at the edge of the map Mior. My grandmother always said that she is from Latvia and indeed Dvisk is a Latvian town. Culturally it is Lita. In terms of government it was part of Vitebsker Gubernia or Byelorussia. You can see on the map that Druja is at the intersection of Lithuania, Latvia and Byelorussia. But technically in Byelorussia.
By the way there are funny things going on with this blog. I called a previous post The Latvian border. I was not sure why, but now I know.
so the shemtovs are "almost" beis harav
So the Shemtovs are actually sefardic jews?Makes sense, Shemtov is a sefardic name.I knew a Georgian jew by that name.
Btw, I was surprised to find out that Gershon Jacobson is also from a sefardic Georgian family.He is the editor of the yiddish Algemeiner Journal, though.Apparently his real name was something like yakovshvilli a classic Georgian, jewish surname.Also his son Simon, pronounced seemon is apparently named after one of his Sephardic grandfathers, since there is no Ashkenazi jewish name like that.
Does anybody have more info?
So, both Avrohom Mayor and Bentzion Shemtov were not originally Lubavitch?
Sorry, when I firs read it i got the impression otherwise.
Although shemtov may sound like a sephardic name, they actually come from a old litvishe family, I have heard this from some shemtovs.
What is intersting is that the shemtovs are closely related to R' Ruderman, whose name is really futerfas, and R' Y Kaminetzky whose mother was a futerfas.
A book was mentioned above, written by Y Kaminetzky. He is a grandson of Avrom Mayorer and is also distantly related to the other kaminetzky families. His grandfather Moshe Zalman was actually from a Litvishe family in Shareye, and was orphaned at a young age, and then sent to Lubavitch.
The shemtovs come from a litfishe family with some sephardic blood.
both avrohom mayors grandafthaers were chabad.
MIB, Shemtovs are beis horav, from the Karliner, read it again.
as a chabadnik i only consider the schneersohns beis horav. an einekel of the karliner would be bnan shel kdoshim
att schneur berel, where r u guys not been hearing from u lately
MIB, this is a very complicated matter, indeed. The big question is: do we relegate the Shemtovs to the lowly status of mere בנש"ק or do we say כאן המתים יורשים את החיים and consider the Reb Sholom Shachna a bona fide בית הרב because of his son, the Tzemach Tzedek? The latter is the only option open to the Shemtovs, since they would be loath to consider someone בית הרב simply due to his חתנא דבי נשיא status. :)
Why is saying someone was from the Ukraine an insult? ...just curious.
Sidney,
Gershon Jacobson comes from a famous Chossid of the Rebbe Rashab, Simon Yakovshvili. He was a gruzini Yid who was on his way to Italy to learn how to make silk (I believe) and passed through ... Rostov?... Rosh Hashana time. He ended up davening with The Rebbe Rashab (itself a funny story) and ultimately stayed on and became a Chabad chosid. Thats the short version, as I heard it from Gershon (Hopefully I haven’t mixed up any of the details)
CE, some of the Jacobsons are proud to point out that the Previous Rebbe "converted" Reb Simon Jacobson into an bona fide ashkenazi by writing about him in a letter to Rav Chaim Ozer (?) that he "spoke gruzini like a real gruziner" :)
Indeed
Not to mention that Gershon married a Lipsker - and it surely doesn't get much more "gezhe" then that. I also recal Gershon's son Y.Y. speaking at lenght about HIS ZAIDE, chossid of the Alter Rebbe, R' Gershon Ber Podohr...
Shoin ois gruziner
Thanks folks for the interesting info on Jacobson.
I believe that the Rabbi Jacobson who was instrumental in saving R'Yosef Yitzchok from the inferno in Europe, father of Rachel Altein who just wrote a book on this is no relation.Is that true?
NO - Yisroel Jacobson was not related to the Jacobson's of Algemeiner fame.
CE, you are correct again. These Yisroel Jacobson was not related to Reb Simon. Reb Yisroel Jacobson was born in the same little shtetl as my grandmother. (NOT in Georgia – in White Russia!). Guess this must be "brag-about-my-grandma’s-shtetl" day!
so u are berel Zuravitzer...
LOL, nope, but my grandma is a zuravitzer!
Question :I recall reading that the LIpskers were actually Tchernobler chasidim who hooked up with Lubavitch in the 1930's after all other forms of Yiddishkayt disappeared in Russia. Any comments or information on this ?
Rabbosai,
If the Shemtov's are from Bays Horav, my late friend Barry Gourary was CLEARLY not aware of that fact as he spoke to me bearichus about their family background.
The fact that some ones name is in Hebrew does not necassarily indicate Sefardi heritage. Were the Gourary's of Sefardic background ? The rav in my mother's Lithuanian town of Vornyan wa srav Michel Sova HYD . was he of sefardi heritage ?
In addition the Georgian Jews last names are not in Hebrew as the Georgiam jews were very culturally acculturated (NOT ASSIMILATED) with their Goyische brothers.Shemtov was used as a first name by some Sefardic Jews but I have not read of it as a Georgian family name.
So with all due respect to the Shemtov family lets see some documentation.In Migdal Or I believe a sefer zikaron for Reb Ezriel Zelig Slonim there is an essay about the eyniklech of the Rav Sholom Shachna.
R’ Schneur, Atlas has this on some good authority. No one I know of has heard of the Shemtov - Rav Sholom Shachna relation before. But that does not mean that it is not true. I have heard, however, that R' Avrohom Mayor had something to do with bringing R' Bentze Shemtov to Lubavitch.
http://www.col.org.il/show_news...._news.asp?
10696
The Revered Rabbi, Rabbi Mordechai Pewsner, brother of the Alter Rebbe was famous for his genius, Torah Scholarship and his deep understanding and resembled his brother, the Alter Rebbe in many ways. He assisted the Alter Rebbe in proofreading the Shluchan Oruch and assisted him in his attempts to benefit the Jewish public. His last name, Pewsner, was the original family name of the Alter Rebbe as well, since the family originated in the city of Posen but the Alter Rebbe changed his name while Reb Mordechai kept it.
In his latter years, he was appointed as Rabbi of Orsha in White Russia. He passed away on the eleventh of Adar in the year 5583 and his Tsiyon is in Kapust. Many families stemming from the Klimowitz lineage are his descendents. These include the families of Pewsner, Azimov, Litsman, Gurevits (France), Feldman, Levine, Rivkin (the Cohens), Kaminetsky, Schneur, Zaks and other Anash families worldwide. (Kitsur Toldos Chabad)
This is very interesting by what's the connection and what is Klimowitz lineage?
I forgot to mention that today was his Yortzeit.
His Great-grandson Mordechai pevsnerII was a Ben Bayis by the Maharash and after his marriage he moved to the city of Klimovitch, in White Russia.
At least half of 'gezhe' lubavitcher can trace themeselves to him. His decsendents include.
Pevsners, Rivkins, Feldmans, Azimovs, Levins, Kaminetzkys, Gopins, Zaks, Nemes, some Mochkins, and many more families.
R' Chaim Shteinman Rosh Yeshivah of telz, is married to one of his decsendents (I think Feldman or Zaks)
R' Gedalya Eidelshtein of Ponovizv, grew up in Klimovitch and wasin cheder with many Lubavitchers.
I have to tell you that this is not about Shemtov, Drizin or Klimovitchy dynasty. This is about my grandmother. She was the most eidel and smart soul. I don't care if they come from Aler Rebbe or Chasam Soyfer. The fact of the matter is that I used to live in Philadelphia and the esteemed Shemtov never asked me if I come from Druya or from Bangladesh. He did not ask me anything for that matter. I am grasping for history as way to frame the life of my grandmother but I could care less for the lanzman that did not show me a sign of warm or menchlechkite when I was bein ha meizorim. This is all about grasping for signs of connectedness to this world. And you people who think you can speak about some Klimovither family under the portrait of my grandfather don�t really get it.
You should speak to Avremel Shemtov.
He is very nice on a personal level and he probably knows nore history and information than anyone else in his family.
Klimovitcher,
A couple corrections:
R' Chaim Shteinman Rosh Yeshivah of telz -- his name is Stein.
R' Gedalya Eidelshtein of Ponovizv -- Reb Gershon is the name, and he's not from Klimovitch, he grew up with Reb Zalman Leib Astulin. His father was RZL's Rebbe and the Rov of the town.
Also, Reb Chaim Stein was a cousin to reb Mottel Shusterman of CH, the Baal Koreh in 770, their wives were first cousins, from the Zaks family.
Dear Big Hercsh.
R' Edelstein the Ponovitcher Rosh yeshivah, grew up in Klimovitch.
He actually was classmates with my grandfather and even attended my fathers bar-mitzvah in kfar-chabad.
Reb Chaim Stein would also fequently visit his father-in-law in Kfar chabad
Klimovitcher:
You sure of your info?
How 'frequently' could R'Chaim Stein of Telz, Cleveland visit Kfar Chabaf in Eretz Yisroel, bearing in mind that he is busy as the mashgiach of the yeshiva there.
Also, even if R'Chaims shver lived in Kfar Chabad, which I highly doubt, he has to be long departed, many years back, since R'Chaim, le'oirech yomim tovim is over ninty.Thirty some years back, people did not travel overseas 'frequently.
I think you have the wrong person
I am talking about around 30-40 years ago.
When he was in Israel he would frequently visit his shver, I think.
I also heard that when he came to kfar-chabad, some children used to be amused seeing a "real litvak"
Similar to the mythological misnagid who once came to Nevel, and all the children touched him to see if he's real.
That last story might not be real, but it's a legend, for the least.
anybody know the story of how b. szemtov switched allegiance from the rashag to the rebbe?
I don't know that story but I will take the opputunity ro relate other stories that I have heard about him.
This one story that really brings out the essense of Bentzion Shemtov, and in general the whole "Mehalech".
Once Reb Shmuel Levitin commented to him in a jestful manner.
"Bentch, du bist der rebbe's a hunt, ober fort a hunt"
Bentche Shemtov answered:
"Ober a hunt shmekt a nevaile..."
MIB switched from Reshag to the rebbe. Barry told me that together with Jimmy G they were the 2 chief "trouble makers' who made life miserable for reb Shmaryahu.
Maybe Barry has got it wrong ?
who is MIB?
Hello, I came across your interesting website while searching for my husbands ancestors. We have the name RIVKIN and my husbands ancestor who lived around the 1840's was a Chasid named Rabbi Shimon (Simeon). We also have many Yakovs and Itzchaks in our family, but we are unable to place them. I do know that many were Chassidic Rebbes. All that we know is that the lived in the Minsk Gunbernia (which covers a huge area). Klimovitch has come up, so I am researching this to. We have reason to believe that our name was changed to RIVKIN in order for Rabbi Shimon to avoid being drafted into the Czar army. His name may have been Kahane. As a result, we are researching what tribe we come from and there is a real possibility we may turn out to be Kohanim. Does anyone have an online family tree that I could look out. Perhaps it will help our family. Shavua Tov, Tarryn
tarryn
i can email you some info
klimovitcher@gmail.com
sidney
r' chaim steins shver was harav zaks, a litvisher rov before the war who received special permission from the FR to settle in kfar chabad to be with his son r' elye sheyichye who had become a chossid.
sorry for arriving two years late.
a few tidbits:
in the shemtov family, there were rumors of lineage going back to the mitteler rebbe's daughter.
i heard this from oser deitsch (new haven) and tried, unsuccessfully, to confirm this.
when bentche would be asked who his father was, he'd respond "a yid". i always took this as a shemtov thing davka not to have yichus.
rabbi fox once told me he met kasriel shemtov, bentche's father, in druya. he said, "he was a litvisher rov with a trimmed red beard and cane with a golden handle.
another story: bentche was brought to the rashab at a very young age, by his mother, who came from bais horav. she was worried because the older sisters had assimilated. the rashab said that the young boy should be dressed in linen for the first few years. (postscript: i. b. singer has a woman holocaust survivor say the exact white-linen story, about her younger brother. i think it was in the novel "scum".)
radloh, did you read the post itself?
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...e-be-
druya.html
Who is Rabbi Fox?
i read the post.
i never heard of the karlin connection but since the "bais horav" lineage is vague, it is possible.
but i did always hear that bassia came from bais horav.
fox. sorry it's "fuchs". he learned in otvotzk and used to give out cigarettes outside 770. he told me he went to druya just to meet bentche's father.
the gruziner thing is simply untrue and was used by shemtov haters. i think bentche got a kick out of it.
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