mentalblog.com comments:
"equals in service to Hashem and the Rebbe"
Service to the Rebbe? Huh???
Reb SZ was originally part of the "Malochim" who were vehemently opposed to the Frierdike Rebbe and let it be known as such. This is obvious from the fact that his eldest son, Avrohom Ber, is named after the "Maloch". (His father was a Karliner Chossid who would frequently daven for the Omud in 770 with the loud Karliner Nusach, something the Rebbe was said to be very proud of. He was probably not BORN in America but was definitely here from a very young age.) All this bad talk aboutn the FR made him very curious and he went to find out what this "evil" man was about. He never left. He did, however, retain his Levush from that period as was the directive of the Rebbe, meaning his hat, long Jacket, and long peyos.
He was a giant of a man both figuratively and literally speaking, and it was heartbreaking to see him break down physically over the last few years, mostly after the passing of his wife.
תנצב"ה
Thank you for your post , Avremel. Your memories are touching. Are there photos of him? I am sure I have seen him, but I would like to picture him now. Email if you can or provide a link. Thanks.
http://www.col.org.il/show_engli..._news.asp?
10685
Yes, yes. I thought it was him. Thanks a lot. I remember him younger. A great man!
Borech diyen hoemes
I met reb zalmen ten years ago at a yat kislev in Malochim he told me that he regrets his conversion to lubavitich ,but he is old and sick to come back ,helooked around and compared his einiklech to the eniklech of his chaveirem and i quote him "miina hoben afilu kein yiddishe tzura"
Tzemach - Please delete this post, I don't think it's appropriate to post lies about the deceased.
Yakov Shimon - ...and I'VE spoken to many of the Malochim group and they told me that they regret they ever let you in to daven in their shul, but now it's too late...
Zirkind- when his wife was nifter all of his yeddim from Malochim went to be Menachem him, he said the same thing that yaccov shimon said . he added 'ich veiss nisht vuss vet zein mit meina einiklech''
I am telling you last time CE, stop chaning the names. I will delete all your posts if you chane the names. This is beyond annoying. Even after I askwed you. You are CH, end of story. Do not use someone else name to post ever again.
To YS and the rest, have some kovod for the memory of the man. Do you have anything to add besides trash?
I must state in my defense, that it was a dictation - and not truly my post. I was posting as a proxy for someone that I was on the phone with. But, as you have warned me, it will not happen again.
So say Zirkind told me, etc.
Question if Reb Blesofsky was a Malach, with his first name he must have been born into some sort of Chabad family. Does anyone out there know his family background ?
Most of the original Malochim Flohr, Dershowitz, Weberman , Shorr etc were hardly of White Russian background.
It may be that besides the malach himself (ilya and Kurentitz ) R. Blesovsky was the only other Russian in the group. Any feedback please ?
I really shouldn't patronize you Schneur, but I can't help it.
His father was a Karliner (as mentioned before, but he was named after his maternal grandfather)
BTW, there's a recenlty published book which states that the "Maloch" once saw someone wearing a lapel pin stating "LeAlter LeTshuvah, LeAlter LeGeulah" as per the "slogan" of HoRayatz N"E, and he made some very disparaging remark.The only problem is that he passed away in 1938, 5 years before the above-mentioned "campaign". A little blurb that goes to show us how an agenda "Kenn farfiren" a person completely, even as far as something that a 5 year old can refute.
I guess Dershowitz WAS happy he stayed in "malochim" circles, his grandchild is the great Alan Dershowitz. If only RSZB would've stayed his grandchildren could've become something great too, instead of reaching out to unaffiliated Jews the world over as Shluchim of Lubavitch.
Avremel. So he was of Karliner heritage ? Where did he get his first name ?
Even some of the Hungarian chasidim after reading the book you refer to agree tht the book is full of narishkayten.I noticed that reference too. and I agree with you.
The part of the book that comes from the tapes of the ben hamalach reb Zalman Levine is interesting.
The rest of the book is as they say the bays rebbe ibergezezt UND FARBESERT vehamayvin Yavin.
Avremel:Please don't pick on Dershowitz who has feineh, ehrlicheh tse'tsoim.Unless you want me to start dermaning names from your side.
I once heard, i think it was beshem avrohom ber, that once Reb Sz Blesofsky was by a farbrengen in the Succah. He, tried climing on the walls behind were the Rebbe was sitting, in order to hear better.
However, he fell down from above right near, were the Rebbe was sitting.
The Rebbe than remarked..
"a malach iz arop fun himmel"
I PICKED? DID YOU READ YS'S POST?
GEI FLI IN HIMMEL, du malach
Schneur, I know his father was a Karliner, fun di mame's zeit veis ich nit, ich ken freggen beim zun
FROM HIS MOTHERS SIDE HIS GRANDFATHER (REB MOSHE ELIYOHU LANDI) WAS A CHASID OF THE REBBE MAHARASH, WHO CAME TO AMERICA IN THE VERY EARLY 1900'S. WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG BOCHUR HARAV YISROEL JACOBSON, WHO USED TO COME TO YESHIVA TORAH VODAAS, TOOK HIM TO THE LOWER EASTSIDE TO AGUDAS CHASIDAI CHABAD OFFICE WHICH WAS RUN BY HARAV DOVID SCHIFRIN ( AN OLDER CHOSID ) AND RABBI SCHIFRIN ASKED RABBI JACOBSON WHO THIS YOUNG BOCHUR IS, AND HE ANSWERED HIM THAT HE WAS A GRANDSON OF REB MOSHE ELIYOHU (WHO WAS A CLOSE FREIND OF REB DOVID SCHIFRIN)AND REB DOVID SCHIFRIN STARTED CRYING FROM JOY AND SAID HE DID NOT THINK THAT IN AMERICA HE WOULD STILL FIND A GRANDSON OF REB MOSHE ELIYOHU WITH A BEARD AND PAYOS.
You mentioned a book with references to the Malochim. What is the name of the book? where can I get more information about the Malochim? (and I don't mean angels).
Please write to my email, which I am listing.
Here are some facts from a family member.
R.S.Z.B. was born in America in 1921. He joined Lubavitch after meeting up with Rabbi Dubinsky who was visiting in Williamsburg. It had nothing to do with hating anyone.
Bear in mind that Chabad was not a new concept since his mother was the daughter of a Chabad Chassid.
He knew most of the niggunim from his family and davened nusach ari, he also learned Tanya (as do the malachim) etc etc.
He was very proud of his einiklach - and was especially proud when they went on Shlichus .. both as single people and married.
He and his wife would escort them to airports to bid them hatzlacha when they were leaving for their designated shlichus.
Unfortunately, he was not himself for the past 7 years at least. He was suffering from Hydrocephalus and it was not diagnosed till years later.
See update here
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...r-
comments.html
R SZ Blosofsky was such a fanatical Malach that he named his son Avrhom Ber after the Malach, even though that his father R. Avrohom Blosofsky was still alive.
Anyway, both, R. Avrohom and grandson Leibel had/have phenomenal voices/
just because i see no one else of the family noted 'avremel's error.
my zeide was born in the usa although some who saw him as older chosid fluent in a russian yiddish and with older style l'vush (due to the few years he spent by the malochim) thought otherwise.
hillel,
Do you have any details as to why your zeide named his son Avrohom while his father with the same name was still alive?
if this is the same yehuda who wrote earlier, why are you asking me through this forum when you can speak to me over the phone?;)
and anyway you would have more info than me wouldnt you?
anyways I would have thought that chayim avrohom dov ber is not the same name as avrohom (besides for his stron devotion to the community of the malochim that was mentioned earlier, as opposed to the malach whom he couldn't have been very close to, since he only joined the malochim when he was 16 or 17 years old, just around the same time that the malach died.
I just realized as additional proof that he went according to the view that an additional name is not the same as only that name;
my uncle moshe blesofsky's name was moshe eliyohu after my zeyda's maternal grandfather reb moshe eliyohu landy who was a lubavitcher chosid (of the rebbe maharash as noted earlier here).
my zeyda named my uncle moshe eliyohu despite his father in law being called moshe as well (my great grandfather reb moshe silber).
as to avremel writing about dershowitz, my knowldge of the malochim is quite limited and only from what my zeyde told me but as far as i know (my great uncle) reb yossel dershowitz (who happened to have two lubavitcher brother's in law; my zeyde and lehavdil bein chayim lechayim reb volf greenglass of montreal) is a first cousin of alan and is a first generation malach (as are most of that age) so alan in not an einekel of any malach, thatg is not to say that anything yacov shimon worte under his name or lemel, has any value. bt dont answer one stupid comment with something that isn't true. unless you wanted to point out yacov shimon's lie by proving he knows nothing of the family and thus could not have known my zeyde either.
I am not the same YEHUDA as above. I am yehuda, lower case, hakatan.
By the way, I knew both your Zeyde and elter Zeyde well.
I realized afterwards when i spoke to the YEHUDA who wrote before, but anyways the answer to your question is the same;
both his eldest son and his 2nd son he named after other people despite part of the name being a name of one of the living grandparents, he obviously didnt consider it naming after a living parent if the living parent's name is only part of the name.
which elter zeyde did u know? reb avrohom blesofsky or also reb moshe silber?
I am sorry. I am new to this. Who or what are malochim?
Malochim are a group of americans who followed "the malach"
in short a former talmid in lubavitch just before tomchei temimim, an old bochur
the rebbe rashab asked him to be sort of a mashpia to the rebbe rayatz, he didnt understand his role and almost caused a conflict between the rahsab and rayatz based on some story he heard and did not bother investigating just ook it on board as truth, when the rashab investigated and found it to be false, he had no place in lubavitch any more or between the chasidim
he left to american and was well regarded by some over there as he was a yerei shomayim and very farfrumt
when reb yisroel jacobson began learning tanya with boys in torah vedaas reb fayvel mendlowitz ("mr mendlowitz") didnt want the bochrim to go extreme, grow beards etc though he himself had a beard sinc ehe wanted his yeshiva to be a model for young americans that one can be normal and frum, bieng that he respected learning tanya he put them in touch with the malach who was so extreme he definitely wouldnt influence them to follow his way. It back fired and eventually they left and formed their own yeshiva
they were called malochim since they were his followers
today they are one of the subcamps within satmar
i missed out lots of info as i am tired
please 'scuse my horrible writing
Also see here:
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...er-
removed.html
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...ue-it-
will.html
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...d-by-
angel.html
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...berel-
levy.html
Hillel,
It is my understanding from my father that one of his uncles joined a group called "Malochim". Both Alan Dershowitz and I are grandsons of Reb Leibel (Louis) Dershowitz, one of the founders of Yeshivas Torah Vodaas (see http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/ archives5759/kisovo/features.htm ).
You are correct that "alan in not an einekel of any malach". If I understood what you wrote correctly than the Dershowitz that joined the Malochim was your great-grandfather. Alan Dershowitz is a first cousin, once removed, to your great uncle reb yossel dershowitz. Alan and I are your second cousins, once removed. You are a third cousin to my children.
Hymie Dershowitz was the one who joined the Malochim group. He was my grandfather's brother and my great uncle.
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