mentalblog.com comments:
Thank you Tzemach. Anything on the point of view of the other side?
TA: How many of them are born in Russia?
Nadia: Only three families, including us.
HMMMMMMMMMM....is someone out of touch? Tzemach please get a clarification from Nadia
My friends in Moscow report differently.. here is some of the names E mailed to me of RUSSIAN BORN LUBAVITCHER FAMILIES IN MOSCOW
1.Moshe and Basheva Tamarin
2.Yeshaya and Sara Shafit
3.Yakov and leah Ratner
4.Izhak and Sofia Kogan
5.Reuvain and Aidy kuravsky
6.Zev and Risha Kanevsky
7.baruch and Golda Kleinberg
8.Yonatan and Shulamit Feldman
9.Uri and Chana Spasky
10.Chaim and mala Machlin
11.Nachum and Leah leidiker
12.Avraham and Chaya Mushka Lifshits
13.Dan and Nili Lokshin
14.Baruch and Chava Gorin
15. Sasha and Chava Barada
16.Aron and henya Golovchiner
17.Baruch and Leah Beinish
18.Menachem and Ilana Abramovich
19.Yehuda and mrs Bronfman
20.Yisrael and Miriam Binbaum
21.Eliyahu and mrs bar
22.Kalman and mrs Epshtayn
23.Shmuel and mrs goldin
24.baruch and Mrs Derkatch
25.Zev and mrs Wagner
26.Ron and mrs Vaisman
27.Gedalya and mrs Zakheim
28.Yosef and mrs Chersonsky
29.Ovadia and mrs Isakov
30.Shalom and Mrs Machlin
31.Shlomo and Mrs Musin
32.nachum and mrs Kirovsky
33.Dovid and Mrs Karpov
It should be Zev and Risha Kuravsky not Kanevsky
What is a yid like R'Dovid doing with todays Lubavitch?Lubavitch is all about public relations,power,control and money.Empty sirtuks and 'bloffers'.
Solomon, I was wondering about that 3 number myself. She might have been refereeing to some aspect of it that I either did not hear or didn't understand. I will need to clarify that. Thanks for your input.
guravitzer, can you do it? I will publish what you find out.
I have a question. I get some of the emails assuming as given that there is a position in Lubavitch of the Head Schliyah. Where did this come from? I know that in practice this concept caused a lot of damage like with Cunin. As a person who grew up in a totalitarian society I have an instinctive disgust for this. I also believe in the free market ideal that was described by Simon Jacobson on this blog when he wrote:
I would say that the Rebbe believed that grass roots empowerment was the best way to create checks and balances of individual abuses of power. Each Chabad shliach was given the mandate to establish his own board of trustees, to raise funds and build with no limits. Obviously there needs to be coordination and respect of boundaries --- and recourse to resolve conflicts before a bet din -- but not any individual (or group) has exclusive control.
America's foundation very much parallels this approach. No trust in any one monarch (or group of monarchs), yet "all men were created equal."
PS David Karpov was an active Shaliyah in Moscow long before Lazar found his travel papers.
lost in CA comments:
"Back to the top, head shliach was created by hadakov and it is not clear if this was the Rebbe's kavonoh. unfortunately, it has become a vehicle for self-serving some people, i.e. CA, Moscow, Kotlarsky, etc."
Now it all becomes clear as Hodakov's claim to fame was his draconian tactics in reorganizing educational system in Latvia, after he was appointed to the job by Dubin (see SSD book 2nd volume). Now we know the historical origin and the context of those totalitarian notions.
regrading the "head sheliach" position - I would still like to hear Simon explain its exact origins, סמכות, as well as how it fits into his thesis.
Tzemach, was your last comment on Hodakov tongue-in-cheek? What lost said seemed pretty silly. Why does everyone think that by making it seem as if everyone around the Rebbe did whatever they wanted and that he had no say, do they think it makes the Rebbe look better?!
I am trying to get information from the other side, however I don't have your contacts and it will probably just be rumors. From the interviews that you made it sounds like: A) they do not trust him because he aligned himself with Misnagdim, and B) to their credit, they didn't simply kick him out, they're just keeping an eye on him. A little too strictly.
Put it this way: Considering that neither side has done anything evil, and they have both done something stupid, there is hope for reconciliation.
But it's hard to tell without an opinion from the other side.
The interview with Nadia doesn't claim that there are only 3 Russian-born Lubavitcher families in Moscow, rather that the genealogical 'telephone book' lists only 3. That should tell you something about the reliability of that book as a source of information.
Also, the expanded list provided in the second comment is not necessarily a list of those 'Russian-born'. Judging from my familiarity with some of these people, many of them (particularly the wives) hail from Israel, Canada and the USA, though it's hard to tell whether their grandparents or parents had some contact with Russia in the past.
Anonymous, please see Update No.1 on the bottom of the post and please pick a nick name. Thanks.
He says that there was never a shul for people in that area. How is it then that they can't get there before 8:00 pm if it's for people in the area. Just curious!
People age getting back there from work or shcool perhaps? Have you ever been to Moscow? I my last years in Moscow I used to go to Otradnoe a lot. It takes at least 1.5 hrs from downtown.
does anybody know how Lazar got ownership of the building?
Anonomous.
My friend in Moscow confirmed that all the names posted both the husbands and their wives are Russian born
considering Russian born, he said today you have 100 plus Russian born Yeshiva and high sschool bachurim in Moscow as well as 100 plus Russian born lubavitch girls.
Also all those who moved for life from israel have has dozens of children in Moscow, are those children not Russian born.
The lubavitch cheder in mosciw has 150 kids. that is besides the general school.
my friend tells me that anash baalei teshuva make about a wedding a week.
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