mentalblog.com comments:
What is this nonsense about the Rebbetzin AH's name?
1) Who cares?
2) The Rebbe ZYA may have used the shin pronunciation in an affectionate sort of way when speaking to her or of her.
3) Again - who cares?
Yes, you went overboard. It is well known that in private the Rebbe called her Moussia affectionately.
Will beating a dead horse make it Moshiach?
Later in life, the Rebbe had few or no teeth. How does one disguish clearly between shin and sin in that situation? For a source, you must go back farther than most of us do.
Come on. One need not rely too much on speculation of this sort in this day and age. As we Jews say, ניתי ספר ונחזי. Simply listen to a tape of the Rebbe speaking in the last years, and you will see that for whatever reason, this was not an issue by the Rebbe.
About using the name Mushka affectionatly - not when you are speaking in public, about naming Mosdos after her.
About who cares - you may be right there. ;-)
As with many other topics in this blog, theories and speculations abound. I believe they are called" boich svoros'. I find it interesting that almost no reference is made, on topics relevant to the Rebbe, what the Rebbe himself said. i don't mean how he pronounced this or that, but what he actually said. The Rebbe, in '91 or '92, the spiritual significance of the name 'mushka'. Referring to the name as being associated with one of the ingredients of the 'ketores'. I can almost hear the virtual remarks of "this guy is a flag-waving, glassy eyed, lobotomized zombie". The fact is, what the cultural shoresh of the name is entirely irelevant.Lubavitch by definition are'Chassidim' and to a Chosid (in difference to an erudite, YU educated, Renaissance man) The Rebbe's word is proof enough.And generally, it would be appropirate, when speakimg about the Rebbe, to give him a chance to speak for himself. And now for the volley of epitaphs.
770 bochur & lipovitzer:
this topic was already discussed here before & your points were raised in comments then as well.
all reasonable opinions are welcomed.
My point is, that with may of the posts when opinions are given concerning issues regarding the Rebbe, few if any of them will quote from what the Rebbe said on a topic. sorry for being redundant.
Rebbe called his wife Mousia not Mushka.
You're missing my point. This is very much like the taynos against detroit going back to before gimmel tammuz. There's the shita "vos der Rebbe hot gemaint" and the shita "vos Der rebbe hot gezogt". Those in the first camp also includes 'historians'of what Lubavitch is 'for real, on the inside'. Those that have been around long enough to know ( or think they know)how things were before the BT's and others came along to mix things up. Hence the argument about how to pronounce the rebbetzin's name or the relationship between the rebbe and his Father-in-law ect. Those in the second group realize that the philosophical tenants of Chabad are the Rebbe and his teachings. Hence, no matter what the Rebbe called his wife, whether his nephew did or did not appreciate him, it's his opinion that really matters at the end of the day.And if the Rebbe saw it fit to name or rename his wife to mushka, so be it.
Now I need to get back keeping the Chabad House out of debt!
Except that "vos Der rebbe hot gezogt" in many instances is not clear cut. Hence all mavinm yedidim that say things in name of the Rebbe. Or people like Cunin who still gets clear instructions from the Rebbe. So this is not as clear cut as you would like it to be. BTW what’s with Detroit?
I'm talking about the Rebbe's opinion which is by and large accessable to your average chossid without having to rely on a mavin. AS far as Cunin, I've yet to meet a single person, shliach or otherwise, that takes him seriously. As far as detroit, the two most obvious examples would be drinking alcohol and moshiach. Regardless of the fact that in both cases the Rebbe made principaled stances( though changing the tone of his message on occasion) they continue to act as if that was only for the illiterate masses.
There's a certain 'we were here first don't preach to us' mentality that pervades. i find if to be very humorous when I meet BT shluchim that are cookie cutter images of their 'head shluchim' that carry on as if they were kidnapped at birth and rejoined their 'family'. I guess the need for acceptance is big in every culture.
With all due respect regarding Rabbi Cunin:
Though for me his most basic shortcoming is being a Lubavitcher, I cannot (albeit, grudgingly)give him credit for the unbelievable 'didon notzach'aka Lubavitch 'capture' that took/takes place in California a place where nobody had a clue what Lubavitch/Chabad was, before Cunin came along to the unbelievable breadth and strength of Lubavitch there today.
That for a guy some two bit shliach in 'hotzen plotz' says, 'that he knows nobody that takes him seriously'
First of you all, you don't know where I am a shliach.
Tsveitens, my comment was on his chazzering 'mamorim' and not an assesment of his achievements. The fact that few shluchim can 'dergreichen' his hasogos goes without saying.
And lastly, his being a Lubavitcher is the reason for his success. The Rebbe instilled in his Chassidim a breitkeit that, for better or worse, is unmatched in the Jewish, or lehavdil, non-jewish world.
"The Rebbe [said], in '91 or '92, the spiritual significance of the name 'mushka'. Referring to the name as being associated with one of the ingredients of the 'ketores'."
As I wrote a long time ago, the name comes from the Old French Muskat, nutmeg, which is a fragrant spice, and is NOT the female diminutive of Moshe.
As for Rabbi Cunin, I think he deserves his own, very special thread. Tzemach?
After the article on Scott. Repeating yourself? Shame.
I recently saw an article on Rebbetzin Shterna Sara's Tzavaah (sorry TA, but at least no controversy involved) and she writes the Rebbetzins name Mushale or Musale (mem vov [sin or shin] alef lamed ayin). Musale makes more sense, no?
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