mentalblog.com comments:
It is still not clear how R. Berel Levy's grandfather and his alleged brother the Malach R' Chaim Avrohom Dov Ber could have the same name.
Rabbi Refoel Zalman said:
He [R. Berel Levy] neer saw his grandfather. His grandfather died before my mother even.
Could that mean or suggest that Berel Levy's grandfather was a brother of Malach's wife, or Rabbi Refoel Zalman's mother?
Ok now I read this again Malach said:
He said, the meserios nefesh from his Feter Berel.
This would imply that R. Berel Levys' grandfather was Malach's uncle?
Reb Elya Shloma Zusman a Gevir from the shtetel Ilya had a daughter Leah that was the Malach's first wife, he also had a son Berl Zusman, this Berl had a daughter that immigrated to America, married a Levy who had a son Berl of OK.
Was R. Refoel Zalman Leah's son?
Also did Malach called R. Berel Levy's mother "Irka"?
refoel zalmen ben leah , is correct . berl ben irkq I don't know , maybe.
Did Malach have children with his second wife? What was her name?
Good info, TA. Hilarious read too, trying to piece it together. The original Yinglish. Yeshive Leit should try this one out.
At least this time the person we're discussing is already in the next world, or I would be worried...
Guravitzer,
"I would be worried..."
there was nothing bad said about anyone including, RBL.
According to the Malach's daughter, his second wife was a real step mother and didn't treat her step daughter nicely. I believe that the daughter was an adult already so it didn't affect her upbringing.
I don't know any more details.
the malach married his second wife ten years before he was nifter her name was ruchel (ostrof)she was the sister of rem moshe the choizer of zembein, on her death certificate in 1946 she was listed as age 90 ,this makes her older then the malach with approx. ten years and at the time of her (socond) marrige to the malach age 70+.
More I read this story, more I get confused. In the first paragraph Refoel Zalman tells a story about his conversation with Hisrchel and his ineraction with the old Berel.
And then Refoel Zalman concludes:
So he died about five, six years before we left for America.
Growing up in New Haven , people knew Berel Levy because hew as the 1st Lubavitcher shliach there and was born or spent time iN Bridgeport CT.
Old timers told me that his parents were not religious. Close relatives of his lived in NH and owned a drug store there.
Years ago in 1979 I met an old Yid in the Skverer Bais Medrash on 47th Street (run by Grand rabbi Dovid Twersky ZT"L) by the name of Alperowitch who was a Levi. since that is also my name I spoke to him , he told me he was a nephew of the Malach.He also was a born story teller.
By the way if we are talking of the Malach and his family the names are not "ruchel" or "Sure" but Rochel and Sore. The Malach was a White Russian Jew unlike his present day followers who are of Hungarian and galician origin and try to blend in to the powers that are in present day Williamsburg.And for that reason lets pronounce idish the way he did and the way his son R. Zalman does on the tapes !!!
The Malach was a Cohen and his real name was not Levine, that was changed when coming to the United States.
Shneur?Who is/was Berel Levy's rebbitzen?
I fail to see the fascination with the M'Lochim.
The Malach was obvioulsy an interesting figure.
But as I wrote previously his students were American boys who clearly had no Messore in Chassiduth and Chabad. So from weekly trips to the Bronx they picked up bits and pieces but how much did these teen agers pick up and UNDERSTAND.Probably even less than the first American teen agers from TVD and Chaim Berlin knew about Lubavitz.(Jacobson's students)
His son Zalman clearly regarded himself as a Yeshiva man of the Lituuanian persuasion and the the tapes in question were made late in his life.Zalman learned with the sar Hateyre Rav Baruch Ber and later in RIETS.
YOu would have to really stretch your imagination to believe that they picked up the Torah shebeal Peh of Chabad .Compare this to the education of the Rayaatz. And even to the education of the RAMASH. Both were mekabel from their fathers or father in law or both.
Had they had another true White Russian Chabad chasid as their next leader and mentor perhaps they would have developed into a serious full grown (bederech ruchniyus )group. Subsequent leaders were fine American born men like Rav Yankel Schorr and the present leader rabbi Weberman.
I could get excited if someone told me that a Chassidishe eynikel of the Kopuster was living in Leningrad or the like.
While I am on record as not being part of the PR brand of Chabad , on the other hand Chabad was never isolationist and always assumed communal responsibility .
Contrast that to the only original thing the Mlochim do today - burn the Israeli flag publically in Broklyn on Yom Haatzmaut, something even the Satmarer folks do not bother with.
Rabbi Weberman sits and learns all day in their BM Nesives Eyele.Is that what the Alter rebbe the ZZ or Rashab did being a Zaddik in Peltz ??? Is that the derech of true Chabad leadership ? And I say this with the greatest derech eretz for Rav Weberman who is a lamdan and oved but a Chabad leader ?
shneur hello,,,1)malauchm is not a countr balance to the well financed P.R. machine that that rayatz and mamush have converted their tiny rebbishe enterprise, maluchem is small leftover living statement of emes that learns sifrei chabad plus sifrei yireh like it used to be before sifrei chabad was blended with seforim chitzonim.
2)yes .the malachs last name was cohen (kagan)before he came over.
last night I asked reb leml again about what he wrote that the malach said Noitsres on the slogan l'alter l'tsuva l'alter l' geula coined by ryatz I said to him that shneur claims that this motto was concocted much later , he answerd like this, do seitzen 2 kinder fin reb zavel (Gertner we were sitting there at the weekly tanya shiur and next were sitting R,elyae yosef gertner and R, yida leib floher a brother of R,chaim and the son in law of R,Zavel both 60)
With all do respect to the M'Lochim brand of Chabad it stands ONLY on the testament of the Malach himself. . We believe al pi shnei eydim yakum davar.
Is there 1 other Chabad elder in the US who said even privately that the M'lochim were the way Chabad was before the Rayaatz ? On Har Sinai we had 600.000 eydim not 1 person.Unlike other religions who seem to have this 1 person who revealed esoteric teachings. We have 600,000 eydim. It seems to me that the M'lochim are dependent on 1 person's view of Chabad-lubavitch.
Believe me I have nothing against the M'lochim , and my statement is directed not against the M'lochim but in the direction of the readers fascination with this group.
Do not misread this as a defense of the PR - fund raising machine that currently directs 770.
Aderabbe if you people think you have the truth in Chabad, why not have some public shiurim and disseminate the truth to searching people.
Real Malach.Amush
Okay. so when was this slogan first used. The Rayatz came to the US in 1940 ?
Did you ever read the Komorner's Megillat setorim ?
Schneur,
Right. Lubavitch has the real Chabad mesora. Just look at this blog, a lubavitcher boy want's to grow up to be member of the Red Sox, non-tsniusdike issues are discussed explicitely, limud hatora is denigrated, etc.
If the Alter Rebbe and Tsemach Tsedek, came back to this world today, where do you think they would be more confortable, in the Malachim Shtiebel, or in 770 with the Yechi sign, Yechi yarmulkes and prostakes of Crown Heights?
I am not Chabad nor I pretend to represent the movement but I am sure the Rebbes would feel more at home with the "prostakes". Shame on you Hungarians to pick on the attire of that boy. Had you known his story and his background you would not have dared to say a word. When was the last time one of you miserable Hungarian low lives cared about the other Jew, cared about our assimilated brothers and sisters? What a bloody shame, go back to your rat hole under the Williamsburg Bridge.
Had you known his story and his background you would not have dared to say a word.
#1. they still would find something nasty to say.
#2. even if the background of the boy was "sterling", what does his attire say about his devotion to learning and things Jewish? NOTHING.
#3. "miserable Hungarian low-lifes" is right!
berl
"they still would find something nasty to say"
"miserable Hungarian low-lifes" is right"
vda"l.
Tzemach,
No one is making fun of the boy. He has yiddisher chain. They were making fun of the people that raised him. Of course that's without knowing his background, which we can't know without ruach hakodsh.
By the way, a lot of Crown Heightsers would wish they could afford a rat hole in Williamsburgh.
And let me add that the Alter Rebbe and Tzemach Tzedek would be more at home in the Lakewood yeshiva, learning Mishnas R' Aharon, than at 770 today.
yehuda, there you might have a good point! The Alter Rebbe said that the two hours he had to spend in the house of the misnaged were worse than the 53 days in the infamous dungeons of Fort Peter & Paul. Yet he would "feel right at home" with the פינסטערער מתנגד and שונא ישראל like K. ( בל אשא את שמותם על שפתי ) and his seedlings - learning his "torah", no less! Right on!
Aren't you afraid that Hashem will punish you for talking against such a Gaon and Tsadik as R' Aharon? Just because he didn't like the Rayatz doesn't make him less of a tsadik or gaon.
yehuda, this I promise you: if what I said is punishment-worthy – you are going to be עמי במחצתי on this :), for surely you are the one that caused me to utter such objectionable words. Perhaps it is time for you to brush up on the laws of לשון הרע (gasp!)? May I also suggest that as a תיקון you send a modest (2-3 meals-worth) tax-deductible charitable contribution to The Chofetz Chaim Foundation? Need I elaborate further?
yehuda, here is a little something for you. :)
"The Shmiras Haloshon Shaila Hotline
This telephone hotline puts callers in contact with expert rabbonim who can answer your halachic questions concerning proper speech. This free service is available at: 718-951-3696 from 9:00 to 10:30 p.m. (east coast time) Monday thru Thursday and Saturday nights."
the bad news is - fridays and sundays you are on your own :(
I am sure the Rebbe and the Baal Shemtov would be happy in CH.
Listen thousands of boys learning in OT and lubavitcher Yeshiva Both Niglah and Chasidis.
In Lubavitch we have the bigest Landonim. Yisroel Firedman is par ex. in the world. Rabbi Gorlitzswky etc...... Rabbi Heller is a Rov which any Kehilah would be jelous to have.
Yes we have problems with the Yechi guys but in time it will be ok.
When Krinsky takes over 770 it will be cleaned out from these wakos.
But you realy think The Alter Rebbe would be happy in lakewood learning Mishna Berura??
Lubavitch is here and growing Shlichus is amazing and growing.
Chabad has the power.
Listen we are not living in white russia and the Rebbe is not here so therefore there has been some boys who have not been as frum as most would like.
But remeber most thought that by now chabad would be history.
Chabad lives and Chasidis Lives
As for Rabbi LEvy i did know him and he was personally a great man had the Zechus to be in his house many times and he was always a very nice man.
He was born with nothing and became a great chosid and Chosid of the Rebbe.
He built by himself the OK which is a Multi Million Dollar Comp. which employs almost 100 people in CH and hundreds of Shluchim around the world have a weekly Parnosah from this.
He started a great company.
His family always had a open home and his son Rabbi D Y Levy is a person who if he hears that a person is in need of help he is the first to help from sending and helping hundreds of kids to go to camp in the summer to paying for peoples weddings etc.
I spoil you people! Schneur, read neal's comments (not that there is anything wrong with them) and learn what "party speech" sounds like! Keep calling me "Comrade" and you will not have Berl to kick around any more! :)
Neal, approximately how old are you?
for anyone too lazy to read Neal's posts, here are the keywords and key phrases from Neal's speach, just read these out loud and you get the feeling:
"the bigest Lamdonim"
"any Kehilah would be jealous to have"
"Yes we have problems"
"growing Shlichus is amazing and growing"
"was born with nothing and became a great chosid"
"He built by himself"
"a Multi Million Dollar Comp"
"have a weekly Parnosah from this"
"He started a great company"
I more interested in the "open house" quote. Is there a source for that?
Tzemach, from whatever little interaction with D Y Levy i had he is a very likable and easily approachable guy. and he certainly enjoys having all kinds of people in his house for shabbos. BTW, did you know that Milshtein der elokist was employed by rabbi Levy?
Approachable yes but formal and aloof. American you might say. I davened with him for years. Considering that I was from Russia the place where he did his miracles one would expect that he will invite me once to his house or to pizza, whatever. I would have paid for my meal, all I wanted was a normal friendly conversation. It never happened.
Sorry I ment RBL. I met DY many times but I don't know him well. I think he is a geek.
I am in the 30s....
And am an open minded Lubab who has smicha and Dayonis.
And Rabbi B and his Son DYL have open homes and lots of guests especially when his son Laizer was alive.
Rabby Levy Employs and supports loads of familes around the world.
He is a Yirei Shmayim and enjoys learning. If thats a geek then ok
And I am the source for the quote I ate at Berels house daily and Thelma would always have lots of guests when she was in her younger years.
As for Berel it was sad that he died so young and suddenly buts thats Hashem will.
And I am not a party guy I know alot of whats going on and find faults in alot of things but like any group trust me I have been a good friend of Many Rabonim in BP and in america and Chabad is OK
The litvishe dont have a yisroel Friedman and in all of BP there aint a Rov who is Rodef Sholom and a MKentsch like rabbi Heller.
Listen the other places are all empty chabad is alive and growing. The Tefilin Bank and Mezuza Bank is amazing projects. etc.
Keep the faith...........
do you think this neal is a real person , or is it some kind of a posting/official/chabad algorithm?
Neal, are you in USA or Europe?
right, TA, next ask him if his an alien or human.
he says "lubab" maybe he is a troll malach
"ate at Berels house daily"
how is that? Are you from BP? You are in your 30s, RBL died in 1989/1990 I think. Shouldn't you have been in Yeshiva or Collel 15 years ago. What were you doing in BP?
now TA is talking to a computer...
I am in the USA ( like SPringstein Shlita )
And I was in Yeshiva at the age of 15-17 ate every night supper in there house and i was not related to them at all.
DYL has tons of guests and if anyone wants to eat with him a Shabbos I can take bookings.
Listen I am not RBL or DYL Chosid just a person who would like the record stright.
He was a learned man and went through alot in his life.
I dont know if he stood outside his home looking for guests but maybe you should have told him you would treat him to pie at his old restaurant where Eichlers is now. ( for the old time BP'ers who remeber. )
Also Reb Berel when we would go out to other Yeshivos to learn with guys such as Bais Hatalmud etc. Berel would tell us all to eat out at his rest and would always pay for us later.
I know when the Rebbe won the court case Laizer OBM flew into NY and took along and paid for more people than i can say for there tickets etc...
Anyway back to work and paying the bills.
Neal
neal,
Where can I get the stuff that you're smoking?
There are many Roshei Yeshiva out there that put R. Yisroel Friedman in their back pocket.
R. Heller is a mentsch because he learned how to be one before he came to Lubavitch. I'm sure that he regrets the day he became associated with Lubavitch. Now he needs the job.
All Chareidim, whether Litivish or Chassidish are growing in numbers and yiddishkeit while Lubavitch is self destructing with their Moshiach involvement and don't even know who G-d is. Most chareidim don't consider Lubavitch to part of their group. What would the Rasha"b say if he woke up today and saw what happened to Lubavitch.
Neal, what does this mean?: 'when we would go out to other Yeshivos to learn with guys such as Bais Hatalmud etc'
Sounds like you were 'teaching' them Tanya clandestinely .They should have taught you hilchos avodoh zorah, than we would not be in this lubavitch elokist/meshichist mess
I learned with them Niglah and Chasidus in the old days.
I am not a Michichist.
The Gemorah asks " Are we to destroy the sun because of Idol Worshipers??
Do we close chabad because of a few nuts?
And listen go in BP today the big jew town of NY I can tell you there are very few true Rabonim.
Agudas Harabonim Igud.... Gornisht.......... Kurtzrak a joke etc.
Belz has a nice Rov ( my friend ) but nothing to write home about.
Reb Minashe Klein is a godol but he was also Butel to the Rebbe and a true Chosid. Which maybe with time I could share some Shlichusim I did between him the the Rebbe Zal
Lubavitch is big and growing........
Being negative is nothing new.
Do you think Williamsburg is one happy Kehillah??
Do you think Flatbush is actually full of frum people ( I was there today just look at the people how there dressed.
Do you think Ponovitch is one happt zal and growing.
IS BP just one bip show.
Chabad is the best....
And about Yisroel Friedman he is a Gaon above all...... A talmid of Boruch Shimon Zal #1
I promice you if you line up all the rabonim in BP and Rabbi Heller and drop a 100$ bill on the floor you will see alot of Rabbis Bending but not Rabbi Heller Shlita.
Well Rabbi Heller is independantly wealthy, but I admit that he wouldn't bend over for money even if he wasn't.
Neal, stop writing every sentence as a new paragraph, this is idiotic.
Rabbi Heller is so wealthy and his family fortune has long gone away.
His father had a factory he got from his Shver in Lugano but it has been closed for 20 years and the familys grown and the money fizzeled.
Trust me Rabbi Heller gives away more money than he takes in from Michiras Chometz.... And his counter parts are the oppis.....
Have a good night
Going to one of the Malachims BM tonight
I asked you not to type a paragraph per sentence you contribution to this blog has ended, Neal, you are banned and you are an idiot.
Tzemach, unban Neal right now!
he is a fresh voice here and, frankly, he is doing a great job diluting these morons-malochim garbage.
in case you decide to ban me as well before i could respond:
you are an idiot yourself.
Neal is unbanned so he can answer my question how is it he ate by RBL in BP every day?
i have to say that I don't care what Neal has to say it is a bladnd cliche. you faruq are crazy, yesteday you wrote that I speak to a computer, you are not normal.
"Neal is unbanned" thank you
yehuda,
i suggest you stop posting here. please consider the following:
1. it is plain bitul toyre
2. it definitely leads to bizui toyre (responses to your posts)
3. it definitely leads to buzui chahomim (responses to your posts)
4. it is avak lashon hara
5. and finally, it provides free entertainment for Berl
There is an old joke about one of the Sefardi Gedolim of our days, Shalitta, that they matched him up against a computer to see who can learn better. He won in בקיאות; the computer won in הבנה...
I ate at Rabbi Berel and Thelma house for 3 years every night.
I learned in Ocean Parkway and almost 3 nights a week we went over to eat at there house and Thelma cooked everything for us. And always treated us with respect.
I was about 15 years old.
And they lived in a rental apartment on the second floor and never owned a house in BP.
I hope I answred your shverer Shalah
Kol Tov just got back from a Malachs BM
Reb Neal
Almost every night sorry Did eat at Kosher Delight some nights and at the Pizza store where Eichlers BP is now
neal, please stop writing every sentence as a new paragraph, it annoys the host.
Faruq,
Your suggestion has been noted but rejected.
It would do you some good to open your mind somewhat and being into ahavas yisroel, I will attempt to do it for you.
Just as you try to get frei yidden to put on tefillin, I try to get Lubavitchers to be more observant in certain mitzvohs they neglect, such as belief in Hashem, kovod of Chachomim which the chazal compare to kovod shomayim, and true belief in moshiach, which that he has not appeared yet, but will Iy"h appear soon.
yehuda, "I will attempt to do it for you" - thank you, please open my mind "somewhat"- i'm sure you will know where to stop. because, you see, mind is a terrible thing to open.
yehuda, "True belief in moshiach, which that he has not appeared yet, but will Iy"h appear soon." this statement means that the true belief is that he will never appear.
neal ,whose bar mitzvah?
faruq,
zei nit faruqed.
I means the same thing that Lubavitchers believed in 100 years ago, which is the same that all jews believed in then and do today.
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