mentalblog.com comments:
Since this explanation turned into a posting in itself, I would want to post here my comment on OOSJ's comment regarding Duvdevan:
I agree that Duvdevan is a very good unit. They are an anti-terror covert unit, and they do a wonderful job - knocking out terrorists. This has nothing to do with the fact that they were picked to do the job - exactly because they are so good at it. That's why, according to the paper, they are so embittered by this assignement. As you can see in nrg.co.il posting, they are specifically trained to shoot at lower extremities.
So too, Air Force cadets, special units of all the infantry divisions have been uniformly sent and trained toward expulsion, besides for very few that are busy with other business. Even the Sayeret Golani that were supposed to be out of it completely (being that Golani in general is a traditionally pro-settlers division with very high percentage of religious soldiers, and level of disobedience is expected to be very high) lately were located on the "fifth circle of expulsion," if this term says anything to you.
I have nothing to say against the soldiers, rather against the high ranking officers who erode morales of the army by assigning it to atrocious missions against its own people.
first - the only mention of duvdevan came from the Sunday Times. The maariv article just mentions "sharpshooters" and not "snipers". there is a big difference between the two.
Duvdevan will be nowhere near gaza. Nor will most of the other elite units. The soldiers chosen, for the most part are cadets in officer and other training programs.
In any event - the army would be remiss if it didn't have contingency plans in place. soliders are going in unarmed and need some sort of armed backup in case of emergency.
in my opinion, this will all be much ado about nothing regarding the IDF - as their officers are well trained and are used to being cautious (unfortunately) do to the Israeli court system. I would be a bit wary of the Magav - the paramilitary unit of the police who are known for their overreaction and visciousness.
However - my guess is that all will end "peacefully". let's hope, anyway.
look up this url:
http://www.google.co.il/url?
sa=t...u6lOZ6OaOvXhJcB
They talk there about such a high level of brutality of Magav that during the training toward expulsion, when soldiers role played settlers, the officers stopped the training due to excessive brutality of Magav. If this happens during training bet. Magav and military, what your expectations are in real time?
Also, look up this url from Haaretz (ultra-left) regarding all the elite units who are going to be involved, incl. Shaldag, Yamam etc.
not being privy to the upper echelons of Tzahal leadership, we don't really know what and where any of these units are doing. It is rare that any of these units be they shaldag, duvdevan, shayetet,etc are ever credited with an operation . so first - regardless of haaretz or whomever, we don't know where they are - and more important why they are there. could it be that they are there in case of a palestinian attack (not unlikely)? let's not be so quick to jump all over tzahah .... magav on the other hand - as i stated - i would be wary of them. but now they will be in the spotlight.
There are two forms of information:
Upper echelons and family members who actually are in those units.
VeHamevin Yovin.
Unofrtunately, Magav are not going to be in spot, as the police isn't, even though there were numerous cases of police brutality that were illuminated in the media and brought to judicial attention. Also, as you know, as of now the State is not going to allow any media presence during the expulsion, so that those who don't have personal information won't really know what's going on.
And obviously, personal information won't count, as being biased. Will it?
Probably, we all will not jump to conclusions.
For those of you outside Israel, while Magav is a military unit, it is officially part of the police. So when you hear about "police" fighting with people, they could well be heavily armed soldiers. And they aren't known for being dainty.
from my understanding, there will be a very large media presence.
and although you may know from personal information where units are stationed, the chances are that you don't know (or shouldn't know) the mission.
we should not jump to any conclusions.
i am not very trusting of sharon, or of halutz for that matter, but the sgan aluf's and aluf mishneh's know what they are doing.
OOSJ,
I live in Israel, if you insist.
If you were here, you would have known that when your child or nephew, or brother, etc. is serving in a special unit in the army, you basically know where he is and what's going on.
Re: Magav. Jake is right. These are soldiers that are nominally called police. They know no mercy.
Re: Media. As of now, the government issued a ban on media entering the expulsion area. You WILL NOT know what's going on.
Provision of food, water and electricity is going to be cut off, to force people to leave.
At this moment, soldiers positioned in Gaza smuggle food from military resources (which are always abundant, and food is being thrown away, as everybody who served in Israeli army knows) to people so that they won't starve.
Today, the grocery store of Kfar Darom was shut down, for good (or bad).
Even Honenu, a nation-wide known civil rights organization that gives legal support to Jews due to political and military distress (it's banner you see every time on the right sidebar of this blog), requested to place its lawyers there to provide people with legal assistance during arrests, etc., and was refused.
I understand your cautious optimism, because looking to reality in the eye is sometimes too painful, but even the army officials admit that it might turn into a mayhem, and not due to settlers, but for example, due to arab snipers, mortars, etc.
OOSJ, lives in Israel. He is "Out of Step in Kfar Saba."
yes - i live in israel and have a son who is in one of those special forces units you speak of. sometimes i know where he is, sometimes i unnoficially know where he is and sometimes i have not a clue.
in israel "Everyone" knows everything ... yet - some things just aren't so.
don't assume your nephew is where everyone says he is - or even where he says he will be. sometimes he is telling you an untruth on purpose- and sometimes plans just change out of the blue.
we are best off waiting and seeing what happens before we libel the best that we have.
unfortunately, we will know soon enough.
Good to know that we communicate through a blog maintained out there in Ma.
It is true that when my nephew does good things in the army, I don't know where he is.
But when it is about disengagement, they know and you know. I
Look, IDF are just a tool, unlawfully used against peaceful population.
And the fact that the Supreme Court today approved the use of army, and covered it with nice wording, doesn't make it less unlawful. It only means that the legal system is also crumbling.
It is one of the signs of impending oligarchical state.
You know that those who will disobey the order, are the ones who will be ready to fight to their last drop of blood against the real enemy.
IDF would have been better off without this assignment, and not fulfilling it would have saved its dignity.
Fulfilling this order will destroy morales in the army, as it always did when army was used against its own people.
Regarding our original discussion about snipers, here is the scan of the front page of Maariv, April 20 (Yud Alef Nissan, a big day for Lubabs):
http://seruv.co.il/mrv.gif
I hope that if your son is in those forces, he won't find himself facing this mission, and if he, G-d forbid, is there, he will know to make the right choice between allegiance to corrupt government or to his people.
By the way, in all elite units, if the soldier says that he cannot do it, usually the officer will reposition him.
Allow me to refer you to two articles that I think reflect the real issue, and it is not army. One is written by, probably, a religious guy, the other one - by Ofer Shelach, left and beyond:
http://www.nfc.co.il/archive/003...ml?tag=21-38-
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http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/
0...3126642,00.html
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