mentalblog.com comments:
What you probably mean to say is that Yehidusim the way you would like them to be are no more. Yehidus is an integral part of (Chabad) Chassidus and does continue. Going to the Ohel may be the way to undergo Yehidus.
You are right, things do change as people change.
bored
You remind of the "I can call spirits" exchange between Glendower and Hotspur in Henry IV. You cannot honestly compare real Yechidus with saying a few lines of Tehilim at a gravesite. Here's a hint. Some people only consider it a personal connection if the other person IS THERE!
I feel the pain. Especially when I read all the Yechudus 'Toirahs' of the Rebbe Rayyatz, who gives the clear impression that yechidus is a big part of the life of a Chossid.
That's why I think that some of the solutions mentionned here http://www.haloscan.com/comments...85832854/
#49267 about a New Chabad, with several 'smaller' madrichim, are important.
Rebel Jew. I don't disagree with you at all. What TA is saying is actually not exactly a situation which started 3 Tammuz 5754, but much earlier. It received a stronger impetus after the Rebbe passed away but Yechidus as the Maskil would wish is no more and has not been for decades. Obviously the Rebbe did not want it anymore or whatever. He cited at the time, time constraints. There were many things that were stopped over the years such as, teaching of new Niggunim on Simchas Torah.
Yehidus perhaps resonates deeper, because it has been the bread and butter of Chassidism ever since it's inception - especially of Chabad Chassidism.
What Maskil is suggesting will do nothing regarding Yechidus, because real Yechidus is a meeting of Souls and we no longer have that caliber of people among the living, sadly (and even sadder for our children for at least we, can talk to those who have had Yechidus).
I guess your dismissal of going to the Ohel is based on your experience. One takes out what one puts in. That is not to say that when I go to the Ohel I see things - that is not the case. However, perhaps we need some Kabbolas Ol as to what is the Rebbe's will regarding Yechidus.
I think that Tzemach (not that he needs my approval) has raised a crucial issue.
bored, but certainly there are Souls worthy of Yehidus--maybe if the analogy were to be a hub surrounded by the spokes of a wheel--if the spokes rededicate themselves to strengthenng their connection to one another, the circumference redefines itself to the hub--limbs to the center, etc. you guys are not exactly without spiritual means.
"I guess your dismissal of going to the Ohel is based on your experience. One takes out what one puts in. That is not to say that when I go to the Ohel I see things - that is not the case. However, perhaps we need some Kabbolas Ol as to what is the Rebbe's will regarding Yechidus."
Are you saying that we should go to a gravesite and pretend that we are communicating with someone there? What would you have someone "put in"? Where is the kabalas Ol - to what? In your estimation, was the Rebbe's death simply a choice to conduct Yechidus in a new way? Did he choose to die for that matter?
Chabad theology becomes more incomprehensible (to me) by the day.
Don't read things into my posting. I did not say that we ought to communicate that way neither did I say nor imply that the Rebbe's demise was for this purpose.
We are supposed to believer in Hashagacha Pratis - Divine Providence - which in this instance and 'conversation' could also mean that since we already find ourselves in this situation, that is that the Rebbe is no longer alive physically, and considering that Yechidus is an integral part of Chabad Chassidism, then there should be an element of Kabolas Ol that going to the Ohel is the Yechidus of today.
By preparing to go to the Ohel and doing it seriously without cynicisim, we are able to strenghthen ourselves spiritually.
Bored.
This is ridiculous..your giving up on Chabad just because there was a helem v'hester, maybe we should do a mass suicide because of tzimtzum harishoin then, I mean after all if we can't see the eibishter whats the point of existing..
B"H
Are you saying that we should go to a gravesite and pretend that we are communicating with someone there? What would you have someone "put in"? Where is the kabalas Ol - to what? In your estimation, was the Rebbe's death simply a choice to conduct Yechidus in a new way? Did he choose to die for that matter?
Chabad theology becomes more incomprehensible (to me) by the day.
rebeljew | Homepage | 08.31.05 - 11:42 am | #
Read :
Kuntres HaHishtatchus
The classic Maamar explaining the significance of visiting the grave of a Tzaddik.
http://www.chabad.org/library/ar...e.asp?
AID=85463
(On can argue in light of the various Sichos of the Rebbe King Moshiach Shlit"a about death and burial having nothing to do with Moshiach of the 7th generation the reasons given in the above quoted Mimar wouldn't apply to visiting the Ohel however I think it depends if person is actually aware of these Sichos and takes them to literally mean that one shouldn't go to the Ohel...)
The problem would be that the kuntres and the parallel theological interpretations of histalkus: presence through concealment & etc. were offset, or complemented, or paralleled, in practice, by the custom of having a self-evidently, and the emphasis is on self-evidently, physically alive Rebbe (and Yehidus). Skeptics of Chabad theology view the current situation, not to mention Ariel's extrapolation that, indeed the Mimar can no longer even apply to the Ohel given the Rebbe's supra-normal existence, as being existentially, or communally out-of-balance; out-of-whack. An addidtional difficulty is that the same themes of absence-through-concealment not only parallel the traditional theologies of elohut but begin to dovetail--giving rise to the objections of "miniim" raised by the charadiim.
I see parallels between the churban bais hamikdash and today.
The avodah changed after the churban; why are today's circumstances different?
Yossi, but, the immediate topic, for the non-Messianist, could the transformation in practice be restricted to instituting a devotional routine where Ohel = Yehidus?
... the sages did not institute a program of radical nostalgia; they did not venerate the tombs of the priests
as in Mazel tov to Matisyahu thread:
l'chaim!
B"H
To be honest I didn't feel much extra connection to the Rebbe when I was at the Ohel even before I was aware of the "kever never" Sichos.
However I feel greater connection when asking question or blessing of the Rebbe thru Igrot ( http://www.igrot.com ), on the other hand I know many people who did experience miraculious events at the Ohel .
G-d leads people in differnt ways , introduses them to differnt information and experiences at various points of their lives...
Ariel, or through mitzvot?
I heard a secondhand story told by an elter chossid about his childhood in Russia, pre-war. He and his brother were educated in an underground cheder, and were raised in incredibly oppressive conditions as Lubavitchers.
He said that in those circumstances, for them to believe that they would one day see their Rebbe was a much larger leap of faith than it is for a child today to believe that they will one day see the Rebbe.
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