mentalblog.com comments:
do you think dershowitz' address could have been possible before the era of historic materialism? before June 12, 1994?
Absolutely yes. Make no mistake about this. This is the road paved by the Rebbe.
i am not sure about this. i hope you are wrong. the road may have been very well paved by the Rebbe. but this is going too far. it is ugly.
"But on to the prescribed by the professor kiruv approach that he learned from the Rabeinu Hirschy Zarchi: “don't ask Harvard students to do anything inconsistent with their own secular philosophy, don't conduct any Chabad programs for example that require men and women to sit separately, therefore don't have Shabbat services necessarily, don't have Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur services”.
Dear Ta, while i see how one can mistake to think that the Rebbe paved the way for this attitude, i humbly beg to differ with you, and feel that the same way some feel and voice their opinion that the Rebbe paved the way for the F MEssianism that was created post 3 Tammuz are mistaken, so too in the subject of our discussion.
The Rebbe's position was a compounded of two opposing appraoches in many matters: For instance, love every Jew-and disassociate from every thing that has no jewish origins (or a phrase said by some chossids: "ultra love for Eretz yisroel and ultra disdain for medinas yisroel").
The Rebbe urged "darkey noam and darkey sholom" to the extreme btu at the very same time urged not to deviate one iota from halocho and the simple laws in Kitzur Shulchan Oruch.
I can't forget my bewilderment that the Rebbe responded some 20 odd years ago about giving shiur in russia to a mixed crowd and the Rebbe opposed it vehemently!
And yes, the false painting of "kivshuhoh" to glorify the name of chabad (as opposed to glorify the name of Hashem) creates confusion and mistake so that people might think that the ultimate has been consumated by having mixed programs even though it does not require self transformation in the form of YK servcies etc.
disassociate from every thing that has no jewish origins
Is that why the Rebbe spend his best years in the universities of Paris and Berlin?
"darkey noam and darkey sholom" to the extreme.
Yes ask Berke Gourary.
is the NLR attending the congress?
what is NLR?
The Next Lubavitcher Rebbe
TA,
i know that there are areas where we will not agree with each other (and i respect you for that), but try to see if there is another perspective:
i can see how it is no contradiction for the Rebbe going to university like the Rambam and Ramban using other knowledge to further serve Hashem (for he is equipped to deal with them and use them for their purpose) and yet he discourages others who are not equipped with those talents and forces (or who do not need in their spiritual service) to deal with that kind of challenge to serve Hashem.
OK TNLR. I did speak to him lately. But he is in his own zone. Detached. He is preoccupied with the world collapse. Who cares about a banquet in Manhattan.
is he attending though?
faruq, i will ask The Next Lubavitcher Rebbe.
please. i bet he is attending. i vaguely remember his struggle (or should i say defence?) against his local uber-shaliach. it was interesting to watch how TNLR was careful to follow all and each rule of engagement imposed on him by the system. he seemed to be detached, and at the same time very well engaged.
why don't you interview him? by popular request.
faruq, a reder writes about TNLR (is this true, i didn't ask him?):
"Is TNLR attending the banquet? As you can well imagine, he is not. Even if he would like to - and I can easily imagine it either way - he cannot, for the simple reason that no one without a head shliach approval gets registered for the Kinus, and no one who is not registered gets let in by the goons at the door. If it would be possible, it is more than possible he would drop in."
So let me think about this.
Dershowitz is in.
The Next Lubavitcher Rebbe is out?
What a country! What an army?
Lets put aside the fact the guy was once a Shomer Shabbos and now is not. Let us also put aside his glorifying of the Harvard Kiruv way.
Something else troubles me even more. Its the fact that at a convention of a religious group, whose leader told his followers to make Hafotzo of the Sheva Mitzvos Bney Noach among the Gentiles, the main guest speaker was a Jew who managed to fool a jury to acquit an obvious murderer.
masmid, you are crazy.
On the other hand, maybe its part of his secular philosophy so its ok.
as you know there were many shluchim that opposed him being there. and as he dershowitz himself knew and that is why he started his speech the way he did
and as for the comment
"darkey noam and darkey sholom" to the extreme.
Yes ask Berke Gourary.
i think in gemorah it discusses when you are allowed to take the law into your own hands etc. i guess when you cross a certain line there no more darkei noam and shalom.
as we saw with alot of issues that the rebbe was very outspoken against giving back land in israel etc
in our city we had the local fundraising benefit, and invited an army chaplain. the man spoke at length about the ACLU, which is amusing because the majority of the contributrs there are ACLU members. One could almost see the chief rabbi trying to kick him under the table.
my point? ethical relativism. what he does in his home is ok, so long as at the convention he talks a good game.
Lubavitch understands this better than anyone--pop cultural influence vis-a-vis actual observance. metaphorically sacrificing the man to save the village.
Atlas!
You were very accurate when you wrote "masmid, you are crazy". I also think he was a bit crazy - I heard that every year, during one whole week in April, he would eat only potatoes. But me, I'm only an einikel. The craziness stopped by me.
Call me einikel and I'll call you Tzemach!
You erased your comment... so now only the Melech Hamoshiach is Le'olam Vaed?
every person who adds to this conversation is Le'olam Vaed!
Aha, if the connection of Jewish students to Yiddishkayt is cholent, pizza and Matisyahu as young people, lets not be shocked when we see that as adults their connection is through Katz's Delly (Treifa) a geshmake pickle, and Israeli dancing.
If the connection is minyon, prayer study, etc then as an adult that translates into synagogue membership day school for chldren and perhaps tallith and Tefillin .
Just check out how many students at Yale the famed Shmulli Hecht has attracted to Judaism !!
As the burger place says Have it your way !!
During the year I worked at Brandeis,1986,I was mikarev 4 kids all of whom today are religous Jews, including the well known attorney David Strachman.The secret of success in kiruv work is one on one personal attention.
ma rabbi, your attetion is directed here:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...8773937/
#122871
try it please
Schneur
As the famous satmere magnate Reb getzel Berger said that when he came to London in the early twenties he went to the Talmud torah of the local shuls in London where the yiddisher boys used to come together in the evenings where the learning consisted of singing a few yiddisher songs and reb getzel started shouting to the local Rabbonim if you want these boys to stay yidden then they need to start learning sidur chumash gemorah if not they will all become goyim and that’s what happened the nothing remained of the tens of thousand of yidden in pre war London for the exception of a few families
Kopuster: Learning is no guarantee of transmission of Jewish identity, but its certainly the best way.
Actually a strong extended jewish family with the grandparents retaining control of the whole family is the best system. That si how NY's Syrian community remained Orthodox without learning and talmudic acumen. Its how many Bukharian, Georgain and Mountain Jews remained frum in Communist Russia without any Torah study.
The same holds true for many Syrian communities in Latin America.
But alas the family in the US no longer exists, then Tora study and what the rabbi writes one on one attention can work. But latkes, Cholent, Jewish rock music , Jewish wilderness trips, Feminist groups and the like are usually nonsense. Not always but usually.
T least someone said somthing about Israel at a Chabad Function, Am Yisroel Chai, Chabad Telethone doesnt mention Israel and neither did all the other Shluchim till Dershowitz comes along
You get students to come to eat, listen music, whatever will atract them, providing Kitzur Shulchan Oruch is not violated, because they would not come to daven or learn. Once they come, you give them personal attention, invite to shabbos meal, offer to study together maybe they will get interested to move forward. If you just organize classes and minyan, you will never get a chance not only to give the personal attention, but to meet them.
Prof. Alan Dersh. has longtime faught against chabad.. He tried to keep Menorahs from being displayed on public property for example etc..
How could they put someone like this to be a keynote speaker? It doesn't make sense to me?
Do they not know of his outspoken liberal views that are very against what Chabad holds by?
Follow the money !
He doesn't give money.. what does that have anything to do with? If it's about a big name.. we are connected to a lot of big names without Alans history..
Big names bring in big money !
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