mentalblog.com comments:
So that explains why young BT types come to Chabad; they're sexually needy. The Machon Chana girls just want to get laid. So basically the Rebbe holds the same attraction as Rev. Moon or Maharishi Maharesh Yogi.
And isn't it amazing that all three of them saw their respective cults of personality flourish during the same time period. It doesn't take an expert sociologist to realize why that is.
Reb Sholom, do not reduce the "BT experience" to the sexual need, this is not true. For most of these people it was a reverse process in that regard.
Tzemach, iv'e read a bit of your article, but ken u ryt somthing in ezyr engliש so those who were educated in OT may also understand?
but i do agree with what i did understand, i think that the idolization of the rebbe has caused all of this. but i must add that idolizing (or semi-idolizing) the rebbe isn't totally bad, but it depends WHO WHY and HOW it's being done. i hope you aren't bashing everyone who has had emunas tzadikim, or other stuff like that; much of the above has been one of the core components of judaism for hundreds of years.
again, i'm not arguing (i actually agree to your post) just (as they say it here) "Bavorening" (translation please)
Shalom; Way harsh! Granted, that different people read all kinds of wish fulfillment into their imagined relationship with the Rebbe. But, you would have an more easier time saying that *some* sexual represssion could be involved (classic academic Freudian approach). I have teenage girls lining up in front of the hotel rooms of pop-stars (ie groupies). It's just not close enough to sustain your cynical claim. Your evidence is too flimsy for publication other than tabloids in supermarkets.
even an OT graduate should figure out the root of "bavorenun" it "to warn."
TA, the cult of personality is a great tool for popularizing the ideas the person deified represents. also, as the movement grows and individual members get less chance to receive personal attention from the leader, the cult of personality is a natural, if poor, substitute for this personal guidance. no, it is certainly not a substitute but a natural consequence of this withdrawal. i vaguely remember that chasidus discusses the concept of מרחוק ד׳ נראה לי
Sholom, "The Machon Chana girls just want to get laid." this is realy stupid. even cruel. many of these girls don't get laid for years, if ever.
that's the literal meaning, but it would sound rather obscure in the context of that sentence, and would be harsher than bavorn (=?).
yeah, i think that comment is cruel. please. don't push every single thought that comes to your mind, just because it may conform to a certain agenda. don't get fed-up in your own crusade.
as to the literal meaning of the word, i think that the word "BAvorenen" actually means "to make sure" or "to stipulate." to caution or to warn is "vorenen".
ah, where is berl from CH...
and what does stipulate mean?. but bavoren means something negative, and doesn't differ much from voren
http://www.google.com/search?hl=...ipulate&
spell=1
tzu bavoren = to ensure
berl, crown heights ,
wow, it's been a long time!
Actually, there are a nukmber of studies of BTs who joined Chabad who did so for the opposite reason: they were tired of being on "the meat market" and felt that joining Lubavitch would be a guaranteed way to find a marriage partner. Now, it is possible that many of these women were having trouble in the "romance" department before theiy joined.
stop with the "trouble before joined" garbage now! Everyone has problems. Abraham had a problem with his father and look what happened.
this is not MY view, but the interpretations of a number of researchers (bonnie morris, lynn davidman, debra kaufman) to name a few. perhaps the term "critique" is better than trouble. they had a critique of the society in which they were living, part of which was a critique of male-female relationships. read the studies.
Speaking of the photgraph, I think that HaKodesh Baruch Hu may require more persuasion than than a bag of hot air saying "Yechi Hamelech". Unless that adminstration of the universe has been entrusted to Homer Simpson. Who would probrably prefer cold beer.
it's hakadosh boruch hu. ("kodesh" is a higher level, which can't be mislabesh in "Baruch Hu")" וכידוע החילוקים בין קדוש וקדש
וכידוע דבחי' הומרא דלעילא יורדת ונמשכת על ידי קבלת העם בהכרזת יחי כו'
Mashpia. Thanks for the grammatic update on my dyslexic faux pas. But does your silence about the statement on the hot air bag signify agreement?
the bag of hot air has a double meaning.
Dear TA,
I agree with you that culture is influenced by our experiences, perhaps in a way more than the texts that we need a hard time to learn them and decipher their meaning.
However, i believe that, while you may have experienced those experiences at the Lag Bomer parade, there may have been other visual messages at that parade that you have overlooked. There may have been other floats with calls for heping out all jews, establishing torah centers for the benefit of others and many more of that nature that you now overlook, being that now we see less of the call of the Rebbe and more about the REbbe himself etc.
You write about the amalgam of many influences: You cannot ignore that there are many more experiences with the REbbe throughout the year in all those years that involved the experience of living Avodas Hashem bimssirus nefesh, the crying out for selfless love of other Jews, ANY JEW, for ensuring every single yid is not left out, in short how a yid is totally devoted to Hashem.
Perhaps: the experience that you had at that time expanded at a time when the work of the generals started to yield their fruits and therefore you see the corruption of the values the Rebbe entrusted to us and that was not the the teachings he gave us, neither the experiences one had with the Rebbe.
And perhaps: the encounters one had with the Rebbe on sundays receiving the dollars with a mission to give it to tzedokoh was a "life" experience that gave us opportunity to experience the real meaning and intent of what the Rebbe tried to convey to to us about our relationship with him and that was not the same experience that you gathered from one particular float. Perhaps in those experiences one saw first hand that the major issue and concern of the Rebbe was to imbue by us the life-mission of the Rebbe: "emunas Hashem", "Ahavas Hashem"' "yiras Hashem" and that was the main point that the Rebbe intended to convey in all those experiences.
Bavorenen=safeguard, precaution
Mashpia: Sometimes things are what they seem to be. A hot air balloon is a hot air balloon. I am confident that it's not hydrogen. And even in the days of pirsuma nissa I can't see hakadosh boruch hu being persuaded by the techniques of Pepsi advertising.
Mashpia; That was not my conscious thought. But since I dislike the advertising approach to revealing kudusha perhaps you identified a sensitive spot!
Excellent!!
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