mentalblog.com comments:
TA,
The details you tell over are beautiful, and the pictures with the menorah is amazing. Truly unbelievable.
But ya must keep in mind that shlomo C also did great work. The hundreds of bali teshuvas he made! he has a tremendous zechus.
But the rebbe and many others, were still against what he was doing i.e. the way he was doing it. (some put it this way "shlomo carlbach had more ahavas yisroel then ahavs hashem!" ;-) )
M is definitely a lot different from SC because he is focuses more on the none religious or non Jewish.
Shlomo and Matisyahu are apples and oranges. Shlomo's music was an accompaniement to his personality. Shlomo had a superhuman ability to touch people, not just with music, but with kindness, hospitality, and good humor. In short, Shlomo was a world-class jewish figure, a piece of Jewish history, both musically and as a personality. His songs are sung literally everywhere. He was a passionate yid that was completely crazed with his mission- bringing Jews back to yiddishkeit. Although he made certain deicisions which were questionable, al pi halachah, he is, to certain extent beyond the point of a din v'cheshbon from us-- that's for the Aibishter. However, his status as Jewish figure is what raised people's attention to his personal behavior.
Matisyahu is a good jew, anyone that knows him personally can attest to that. He is kind, and serious about his yiddishkeit, a true chassid. His music is simply a way of bringing yiddishkeit into the forum in which he found himself, the reggae forum. He is no world figure, nobody is calling him at three in the morning with personal problems, and he doesn't have a shul. He's a talented singer, with a good message. If you don't like the reggae forum, don't follow Matisyahu! I cannot understand the notion that the Rebbe would ch"v be dissapointed wit Matisyahu. Quite the contrary, I beieve the Rebbe gets nachas from those that incorporate his message into their affairs in an emesdik way. We have all seen the wave Matisyahu has made, and I don't think one can deny that he has caused a Jewish awakening in an original forum.
I'll be a Misnaged for this comment...
The headline you gave to this post brings up a more disturbing subject - the total takeover of Hashems position by the Rebbe. If Carlebach had more ahavas yisroel than ahavas hashem, then Lubavitchers today have more yira's ha'rebbe then yira's shomayim.
The appropriate Jewish headline for this post would be - "Will Hashem send Matisyahu to paradise?"
Ok, I finished this comment, so again I get to be a human being with no social identity. How much fun!
Before I say anything, I’d like to differentiate between myself, who judges the music, and the likes of Schneur, who judge the man. Mattisyahu is the most aidel, ehrlich guy, believe it or not. His enthusiasm for yiddishkeit comes through in everything he does. Don’t judge him by a cover story in the village voice—read the article. Every interview, every performance, every opportunity he has for publicity is used to spread a G-dly message. To compare him to Shlomo is ridiculous, because like marava said, SC was a Rav and a teacher of Torah. Mattisyahu is still a student, but because of his talent he’s in a position of great exposure, so he uses it as best as he can to increase light in the dark circles where he mingles. The music industry is filth and the venues where he performs are obviously not appropriate for yeshiva kids. I don’t see how his presence makes it more kosher. He discourages frum kids from attending his concerts in clubs and bars (btw, he gives enough ‘kosher’ concerts in separate halls and shuls to satisfy the frum fans). His wife even said that she doesn’t attend his every concert (even before she had a kid) because it gets uncomfortable with the mixed dancing and all. I heard of shluchim who make chanuka/purim parties and don’t allow their kids to attend because they know that the scene becomes inappropriate for frum kids, with mingling and drinking. Does that make their work wrong? Like TA said- he makes totally unaffiliated Jews feel positive about their Jewishness, he shows them it’s not unhip to be religious and he spreads a positive uplifting message. If you’re an already frum Jew, then why are you looking to him for inspiration and moral direction?
Putting a value judgment on the music is another story. If you don’t go for ‘goyish’ sounding music then I assume you don’t listen to half the Jewish music out there. Whether it’s Dedi or Lipa S, Oif Simchas or 8th Day, Moshav Band or The Chevra… these are not authentic Jewish sounds (whatever that means any more). But again, that’s a different issue. And to Pop—your oldest kid is 9? I totally understand that you sensor your kid’s music, but don’t fool yourself and think that they’ll still be listening to bubble-gum pop when they’re 14+. Based on what lubavitch kids are listening to these days, you’ll be praying that they’d only listen to Mattisyahu! Personally, as a parent, I would be perfectly comfortable allowing Mattisyahu’s music into my home, but at the same time not letting my kids attend his concerts in non-Jewish venues. There’s no hypocrisy or contradiction in that.
I thought about the watered-down sound of Youth again and I realized that working with Sony probably forced Mattisyahu to make certain concessions that make his music a bit more mainstream and thus more marketable. (It’s the usual beef of indie groups selling out to get to the masses.) I’m sure though that when he performs, his music will retain its original Mattisyahu flavor. What better way to judge a musician than by his live performance—its there that his exuberance and talent shine through.
Kara, Matisyahu spells it with one T.
Mashpia: Thats the whole point - I was playing with the double meaning.
One T and according to Ha'aretz with only one "ת". They spelled his name - מתיסיהו. And how deeply correct their way of spelling is - it comes to show that the american cultural influence on this guy, doesnt only make him different Be'chitzoniyus from the the original מתיתיהו. It makes them different in their פנימיוס. Therefore, even when written in hebrew (and the hebrew spelling of a name shall resemble the Pnimiyus), his name shall be spelled differently (like it is pronounced in English, which shall resemble the Chitzoyniyus)
i wish to clarify that my comparing matisyahu to carlebach was not as people themselves, nor for their music, but for the environment in which they performed, the enviroment they de facto endorsed - mixed gender frivolity. regardless of whether the environment they created by their presence caused good or bad, it was/is halachically problematic. maybe part of the reason carlebach was officially shunned, and all of the reason why i say the barometer of acceptance should be whether the performer would be comfortable bringing his whole scene, crowd included, to the rebbe. if i speak chassidus so well that my audience becomes better jews and i do hanuka lighting so meaningfully that many in the audience do it also, but i do my chassidus and menora performances in strip joints, is that endorsable?
"Kara, Matisyahu spells it with one T."
Gee wiz- is that your only response? Or are you getting me back for correcting your 'soaked in thinking'. :-)
Whadeva- you may have shunned Shlomo, but he is by far one of the most influential Jews of the 20th century. I won't make the stretch and say the same about Matisyahu yet, but clearly his work is meaningful and very influential. Making value judgments and branding music as bad or good is of little consequences-especially to the chutzpadik youth who could care less about the latest moral directive. You're not going to shut him up (who knows why you'd want to) and you also won't stop people from listening to him (because he’s good). It just takes common sense to separate his music from his environment, just as one must separate the divine music of Shlomo Carlebach from the pot-smoking, woman-hugging crowd that followed him around.
whadeva,
Thanks for clarifying for the rest, I myself understood what you meant.
Comparing M to SC, as “PEOPLE” will (not as in the environment in which they performed) differentiate upon what type of a person you are or what sect you belong to. There are those from the extreme who admire him, call him zt"l etc, and there is the other extreme... vida"l.
Well,
it seems to me that any person who would go to a Matisyahu concert and while he/she was there, would take advantage of his "heter" for mixed seating and the
like, is not doing so only due to Matisyahu. He/she would be a taking part in a mixed crowd anyhow, the fact that they are listening to Jewish Music in a form presentable to them is a good thing, and is better than if they were left to mix at social scenes. He is a good person and if he has found his calling in Judaism to represnt chassidim jewry in reggae, good for him. And all that about
Reggae being non-jewish so consequentally Avodeh Zeroh is unfounded. It is a music form, and as far as i know, B"H Matisyahu does not have immoral portrayal of females. Just necause rap has also been used to portray anti-torah values does not make it forbidden. We cant let the negative outlook of something stop us from using it for good.
YeshivaBochur . Your last line . You should check that out with your mashoia or Rosh yeshiva.
Throughout our history we abandoned many neutral things because it was taken over by avoda zara and Christianity.
Your last line is not in line with main line Orthodox Jewish thinking. Once something is adopted by Ovada zara , its open to re-evaluation by Judaism. Bowing down completely (as we do NOW only on YOM Kippur) is an example of this.
As far as Reggae and Rock go even lehavdil our Fundamentalist neighbors realize that while the music is not problematic the cultre about it IS (drugs sex, mixed dancing, dating, anti parental behavior, in some cases homo sexuality violence ) and thats enough to have a RED light flash ---PROCEED WITH CAUTION al achas kama vekama for JEWS WHO CLAIM TO BE CHASSIDIM AND ARE MEDAKEDEK IN HALOCHA and would not touch the tablet K or use Star K chickens !!
I hereby nominate Mashpia for the Shoshana Silcove Prize.
only in regards to volume :lol:
mashpia,
Maybe we should ban the internet!
Especialy when it's an inyin of gilue aroyos, when you must stay away with a thousand foot pole. As we see in the gimara in kidushin when it's talks about AMARAIM, kedushai elyon, who were on the level of "vlibi cholol bekirbi"- how far you have to run from these things, how much more so us.
I’m not telling you to ban internet but its definitely something that should not be upgefregt.
BTW ayeka?
I think this guy is grate , and as some people here said, he makes young jews feel more pround about them being jewish.
i just love his music!!!
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