mentalblog.com comments:
Mashpia,you are a true example of איידי דטריד למפלט ...
can someone describe in a few words (warning, Mashpia) the phenomenon of non-frum lubavitchers? how do kids see this?
LastHalo is set to refresh every 15 min, it is not real time by design, as not to overflow the servers with constant pings. He is promising "premium: features". Will see what it is next month.
"can you please explain what that giant cone is?"
The dunce cap that should be placed on your head for asking so many questions!
Just kidding, I couldn't resist... it's probably a light fixture from the Paradise.
Tzemach,
Did you know that there are christian messianic ads on the google adbar on the right on your blog? Also there is an ad for a"rabbi" who performs jewish-christian weddings?
"There are plenty of businessmen, etc., in chassidus' history."
Come on. Is he or she saying that a person could become, say, an electrical engineer, and still remain a much a chasid as a shliach or melamed? We must draw the line somewhere!
An ode to the days of reinventing the wheel.
I believe the drop-in/drop-out rate within Yiddishkiet is nothing new, but rather a cyclical phenomena that has occurred throughout history on a regular basis.
Pretty much described in the Torah, “v’rom levovcho, v’shochachto es Hashem Elokecho.”
“Good times equal Bad religion.”
Yiddishkiet doesn't seem to be a "good time religion." It is a very rigorous and demanding system, that comes with great determination, sacrifice, and struggle.
[l'havdil, Christianity is much less demanding. And theoretically, adherence is a matter of a simple profession of faith. “If you believe, you're saved." And yet, Secularism has overwhelmed Christianity in our society.]
When times are good, the inner drive for self sacrifice and rigorous adherence is diminished. And that seems to be the cycle within Judaism. When people are suffering, either from persecution or poverty, they pray unto the L-rd. The next generation has it a little easier, and they slacken some. Their children, raised in affluence, begin worshiping their affluence, influence, or other such pseudo intellectual golden calves, and neglect or abandon Jewish practice.
Hashem gets a bit perturbed, and the world tremors. He begins to remind us that we are not exactly the same as everyone else. And suddenly the "ugly head" of anti-Jewish persecution and discrimination (distinction, v’niflinu ani v’amcho) raises its cyclical head.
Anti-Semitism is probably one of the most unique, supra rational, and supernatural phenomena known to humankind. Sadly, it is one of the most “miraculous” occurrences in human society. Why, after all, should a huge populace all over the world attack a tiny group as the Jews, consistently, generation after generation, each time for different and newly contrived reasons. [Deicide, Islamic persecution, ‘poisoning the wells’, blood libel, ruining the economy, Israel, Zionism is racism, building a protective wall, and the list goes on and on -- each generation finding a new excuse. But the excuse is just external, internally it's the same Voice… reminding us.]
So, out of the blue, Islamic Jew-hatred erupts and explodes, not only in the Arab world, but in the Far East -- Singapore, Pakistan etc. The “protocols of the elders of zion" becomes a bestseller in Japan, of all places. And the newly elected Iranian Prime Minister publicly says there never was a Holocaust and its time to obliterate the Jewish state.
Elo sheb’chol dor vador, omdim olainu l’chalosainu. V’Hakodosh Boruch Hu …matzilainu miyodom. How would we survive, without Him…
At the same time that Hashem gives us a “smol docheh,” a left-handed slap, there's a counterbalance in the world, of “yemin mikareves,” the Western, Christian world (USA, Europe) “stands up" to condemn anti-Semitism, and Holocaust denial. Compare that with European behavior during World War II. Galgal hasovev. The wheel turns….
The whole is equal to the sum of all its parts. Yiddishkiet is greater than any one sectarian movement, Chasidim, Moderns, and the like. Each group will suffer in its own way, but it is simply indicative of the malaise that affects the whole.
Do we need "bad times" to bring us back into the fold? Do we need misaras nefesh – “self” sacrifice - to awaken the national religious fiber of our people? Well, perhaps we need misaras nefesh invoked either internally or externally. Either we awaken an inner self commitment through collective avoda, or it is awakened for us, externally.
There is a form of G-d service that can emerge through self recognition and commitment. That form of inner misaras nefesh, replacing the neglect of the "lower will" with the commitment to the "higher will" can exist in good times, too. But if we do not choose to invoke it, then we are left to the whims of external influences. And those are the forces that coerce our Yiddishkiet commitment.
This was the reason the Baal HaTanya and others strongly opposed Napoleon, although Napoleon would have ushered in a much better era for Jewish comfort.
Because … Good Times make for Bad Religion.
:Mashpia,you are a true example of איידי דטריד למפלט ...
faruq
In more ways than one.
can someone describe in a few words (warning, Mashpia) the phenomenon of non-frum lubavitchers? how do kids see this?
faruq
It is a direct result of promoting the charisma of the Rebbe and the we/they hubris over general learning. They can love "the Rebbe" and promote "Chabad" and lose interest in the rest. This is partially because they respond to the natural appeal to feel better than others, so they are only interested in those things that differentiate them from other Jews, ie Chabadkeit.
many non frum lubavichers are actually more lubavitch than frum lubavitchers. look at keller and schwartz, for example. and there are many more.
what i have witnessed in several chabad houses is a strange phenomenon of loosely-chabad lubavitchers. especially local BTs. i felt quite uncofortable around these people, as i don't understand this trend. clean shaved, yet gartl girded. singing chasidishe nigunim enthusiastically, yet keeping MO standards of kashrus. what is it? is it possible that sheluchim purposely keep these people at bay?
i, too, have experienced what faruq described and think it is actually the norm away from CH. i know people who call themselves "lubavitch" because they daven at chabad, or have some kind of affinity for what they understand as chabad chasidus. the truth is that chabad has always attracted such types because lubavitchers are so open and welcoming. i met one young man who grew up on shlichus outside of CH in the 70s and said that BTs who used to come to his parents' home for shabbos would often arrive in souped up sports cars or sneak out to smoke pot (some even offered it to him), etc. some, he said, would slowly undergo a transformation and become frum, while others would never return again. others remained in a perpetual state of in-between-ness.
... i don't think that many people would put their minds to the challenge of understanding many of the things which i write here, but i'll write it anyways...
alas, both of these predictions are probably correct.
The idea of shlichus as the only acceptable way of life, who started this ?
In White Russia (read the Likutte Diburim of the Rayaatz) you had Chassidishe baal habatim and keli Kodesh.You had Chassidic baale melochos I won't bother you with Maamare Chazal about the spiritual dignity of work!
All other chasidic groups encourage most of their bachurim to amrry learn a year and go to work.
Next the concept of non frum Lubavitcher. Kvar hayu devorim meolam. In the USA before WW2 there were dozens and dozens of Nusach Ari shuls in the US with names like Anshe Lubavitz and zemach Zedek. The worshipers were mostly traditional but hardly Shomer Shabbaes. they were makpid on teh Nusach and some minhogim, but not on Shabbes etc. They supported bais Cahayenu in 1929-30 and again in the post 1940 period. Few of their children remained frum . There are only a few Lubavitchers today whose grandparents were part of this large community.
I knew a guy in NH from Dokshitz davened Ari had chabad tefillin , but worked on shabbes and had a Shiksa mistress!
My point is that this is no derech . Better to be (much better an MO in West Orange observing Shabbes and kashruth than a Nusach Ari amnd with little Mitzva observance.
The late Barry S. Gourary told me over 10 years ago that eventually chabd in the US w dedicated to chabad customs".
Perhaps his uncle was a prophet ,b ut it loks like the nephew also had some prophetic spirit in him !!
In reference to the last comment about Barry Gurary- I really think he missed the boat. Had he conducted him differently, he would have Rebbe in 1994
Speaking of Jewish musiciians that are talented, has anyone been to the Cantor Helfgot concert with the NY philharmonic? I think it was truly unbelievable, and a huge success, even by the discriminating standards of those who blog on this site. It was a huge kiddush Hashem to see his operatic genius accompanied by some of the world's most talented musicians. From my vantage point, it appeared as though every single person in the sold-out Avery Fisher Hall was completely blown away by Cantor Helfgot.
Gourary's prediction of Chabad in America : a loose confederation of synagogues dedicated to Chabad customs .
We may yet get there.
Mashpia, thank you for your response.
Regarding your suggestion that I am saying that religion (Yiddishkiet) is basically a “feel-good system.” On the contrary. That is precisely the Opposite of what I am saying. Were Yiddishkiet a feel-good system, then people would flock to it in the good times. Marijuana is a “feel-good system,” as is Overeating.
Yiddishkiet, is a “do good sytem” and a “be good system.” And this is much more of a challenge. People need strong motivations to be good. And unfortunately, suffering seems to be one of them. (“Vayizaku el Hashem - batzar lohem.”)
Your story regarding the three different gentlemen, and the Chabad approach – basically add up to my point for the need of personal commitment to serve Hashem. Misaras nefesh and Avoda. Misaras nefesh defined as being ready to surrender one’s will, ratzon, one’s own personal desire and whim of the moment, for a higher Will – Hashem’s. “Batail ratzoncho l’rtzono.” Avoda means just that: labor, work, effort. Yigiyo. Yiddishkiet is not about “easy.” It’s about “effort.” Much Yigiyo. When we choose -- individually and collectively -- to be Ovdim, then we do not need “bad times” to make that choice for us.
And finally, Napoleon was all about emancipation and comfort – good times.
And from the Alter Rebbe’s words it seems evident that that’s precisely what he opposed.
In a letter to one of his loyal followers, Rabbi Moshe Meislish of Vilna, the Alter Rebbe wrote:
If Bonaparte will be victorious, Jewish wealth will increase and prestige of the Jewish people will be raised; but their hearts will disintegrate and be distanced from their Father in Heaven. But if A[lexandar] will be victorious, although Israel's poverty will increase and their prestige will be lowered, their hearts will be joined, bound and unified with their Father in Heaven. (Igrot Kodesh Admur HaZaken, letter # 64)
“Rabbi Schneur Zalmans fears were borne out by the events of the next two centuries. When emancipation did come to European Jewry, it came as a gradual process, and traditional Judaism had by then developed an array of intellectual and moral responses (most notably, the Chassidic and Mussar movements). Still, the spiritual toll of freedom was high: traditional Jewish life was all but wiped out in France and Germany by the upheavals spearheaded by the French Revolution, and while it persevered in Eastern Europe until the eve of the Holocaust, many fell prey to the winds of anti-religious "enlightenment" blowing from the west. We can only imagine what the toll might have been had Napoleon conquered the continent in the early years of the nineteenth century.” [see, http://www.chabad.org/library/ar...le.asp?
AID=2184]
Your last comment that “i don't think that we can say such a thing in the mostly spiritualistic America,” mystifies me completely. Spiritualistic America??? What is that? The culture of America does not pose a spiritual threat? Did we not (potentially) lose most of the Jewish people in America to assimilation?
A freiliche Chanukah, Mashpia and all.
teacher
dittos on all points.
problem is that there arent nearly enough teachers with your perspective!
these days its shlichus/kolel or nothing. the whole ehlicher yid concept is out the window.
If suffering and being oppressed is the ideal state of being for remaining Jewish that why were we so eager to get out of the Soviet Union? Honestly, I never understood why the Alter Rebbe and consequently Chabad is so opposed to Napoleon, the French Revolution, and its symbols like the Marseilles. I found it quite hypocritical sitting at a Farbrengen in America that was shaped to a large extent by the ideas of the French revolution (America and not the Farbrengen :)) and listening to all the Napoleon bashing. In an indirect way I can thank Napoleon for allowing me to be a citizen of the country where I live and live the life I wish to live – in this case the life of a Frum Jew while having full rights. Prior to that whole upheaval in France that shaped what a modern state is, if you were not a Christian you were not part of the society.
back to basics again:
mentalblog.com: Albion's Seed and St. Germain des Pres philosophers
mentalblog.com: Novus Ordo Seclorum
mentalblog.com: What if, Lubavitch in France?
speaking of france, what was the fate of r. Mendel Shneerson the younger brother of Rashab who lived in paris in 1930s?
I believe he died close to 1940 was buried in Corsica. Some of his Yerusha -Megilos- from the rabbeyim were given to the Rebbe and Rabbi Zalman Schneersohn in Paris. recently he was buried again in Israel. I believe the Chabad book of days has a photo of that ziun.
Anyone know what happened to his children (he had a son who was at TTL but apparently left the derech) ?
schneur
i beleive r, mendel had a daughter who was frum. i remember seeing somewhere that she lived in bnei brak, the name was greenberg (a second marriage) and that the rebbe paid for her and her husbands tickets once to come visit him and the rebbetzin in ny.
as far as r. mendel himself goes, reports are that when they reinterred him in israel, his body was said to be whole. (i think this was according to the late r. levi bistritzky)
Can someone add some bio on R'Mendel Schneerson?
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