The Chemdas HaYomim's author is also not clear, so we have a Sfek Sfeika here.
HirshelTzig | Homepage | 02.14.06 - 10:49 pm | #

Let me guess, the book was written by somebody who believed that calling Shabtai Zvi Moshiach distracts from the hiskashrus?
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 02.14.06 - 10:57 pm | #

I am under the impression that the author of the Chemdas is pretty much accepted as fact, and not all that disputed - But there are many things that are said to have come from Shabtai Tzvi's group and the Chemdas ...such as saying L'Dovid Hashem Ori in Elul, Shalom Aleichem on Friday night, various phrases that we commonly quote, the yehi ratzhon that some say after Tekios, and many more.

The logic for accepting them is obviously that just because it is quoted there, or began then, dosn't mean that it was:
1. Of that origin (since it could have been quoted without them having made it up)
or 2. Inherently invalid or wrong.

Once Klal Yisroel accepts something, it becomes "Minhag Yisroel Torah Hi."

What about things like naming after a goy, "Alexander"... or singing Goyishe Songs, (Napolean's March, French Anthym)? Once it's adopted by Klal Yisroel, it's valid.
chabakuk elisha | 02.15.06 - 2:25 pm | #

Let us all accept Yechi now!
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 02.15.06 - 2:32 pm | #

On the other hand...
Let's not
chabakuk elisha | 02.15.06 - 2:53 pm | #

I think the key phrase was "Once Klal Yisroel accepts something." Klal Yisroel has yet to embrace Napoleon's March or daily saying of Yechi...although some might want us to think that it has.
Fedora Black | Homepage | 02.15.06 - 3:19 pm | #

Shabbatean or not;all I know is,that this sefer is one of the most beautifully written ones.
No wonder that Agnon drew heavily on it.BTW,does anybody know how the sefer is viewed by Chabad?
yoshe kalb | 02.16.06 - 2:50 pm | #

Yoshe,

I did notice that it is on the top shelf to your left when you enter the Rebbe's office...

I also know that the Rebbe's view on the sefer was debated heavily between Leibel Groner & Nochum Gruenwald in Haoros Hatmimim a while ago.
chabakuk elisha | 02.16.06 - 3:59 pm | #

The shatz SRY is wearing shtrokes so he is certainly not Lubavitcher chasid,
Schneur | 02.16.06 - 5:12 pm | #

Chabakuk Elisha

Do you know for sure that the parts of davenning you say come from the Kat ShaTZ really come from there?

I'm not sure.

In any case, the celebration of Chamishah Asar surely precedes the Shabbsoim. It is the SEDER routine, with the responsive readings, etc. that seems to be of dubious origin.

Of course, this is not a problem if we can prove that they were proto-environmentalists...

On another subject:

Does Rembrandt's "Jewish Fiancee" remind you of anyone? (Add six years...)
Alter Vitebsky | 02.19.06 - 2:13 am | #