mentalblog.com comments:
"Lubavitch psychotherapist who will have r'shus to report anything that I say to the anhala."
is this legal?
Note how a Lubavitcher Rosh declares a person who disagrees with his own crazy views not normal.
It's a little difficult going into specifics, not knowing anything verifiable, not even knowing the name of the relevant Rosh. But one thing perplexes me.
What difference does it make that we are dealing with a Lubavitcher Rosh? Does this tidbit of information help with anything other than propaganda?
We don't even know the guy's name! And there are far more crazy Rosh's in Boro park! (Not more Rosh's, more crazy).
Heck, there are plenty of non-Jewish principals who aren't exactly normal. Read the paper for a week and you get the idea. So go out and start advertising that Seventh-day Adventist principals are crazy...
How do you know the following 'And there are far more crazy Rosh's in Boro park! (Not more Rosh's, more crazy).''
In reality there are few places that match Chabads publicized craziness such as the Rebbe being alive 11 years after....or the Rebbe being 'nosi hador' though we are half way through a new dor
I am not going to go into specifics, you will have to trust me on this one. But there are Rosh's, Rabbonim, the works in Boro Park, who are crazy. Very crazy. The better word would be warped.
PS Abarbanel mentions 20 years. In general, your tone does not seem to indicate that you have seriously studied the debate.
Nathan, since you belong to Lubavitch,a movement that despite good work has a verified track record of bizarre behaviour, such as a large group continuing to claim the late Rebbe is alive and even some followers claiming he is divine, your opinion that Boro Park has 'roshei yeshiva who are much crazier' cannot be taken seriously.
About Nosi Hador:This is a Lubavitcher idea not taken seriously by anybody.It's interesting to note that just by 'chance' these nesiei hador 'happen' to be Lubavitcher leaders.How unassuming!
The most amazing part is a Nosi Hador who is not alive.I hope you realize how foolish and brainwashed you sound.
Peace
"Note how a Lubavitcher Rosh declares a person who disagrees with his own crazy views not normal."
note (sic) how you do the same thing
TA actually attempts to prove HOW they (we) are wrong.
Most people don't like others to disagree with them. Based on my observations, it seems to me that many Lubavitchers were conditioned by years of being surrounded by Marxist/Leninist dogmatism to being less tolerant than "normal". This also hints to the problem faced by families who rely of dogma instead of reason as they stuggle to maintain their identity in a permissive society.
Nice to see you back Pmh, I wish we can blame it on "Marxist/Leninist dogmatism". But it seems that this reason reached it’s expiration date. Are there other reasons? I mean Muslims are also pretty intolerant but they know nothing about Lenin. I think this is a deeper problem.
The Lubavitch world has fragmented since 1994 into an almost uncountable number of sub sects. The lunatic fringe has apparently developed an 'apotheosis theology' far in excess of any previously known since the days of osoh hoish.
But even among 'mainstream' Chabad, there is such a bewildering array of beliefs about the late Rebbe, that it is scarcely possible for an insider to ascertain what beliefs an individual owns, let alone someone from the non Chabad world.
This is obviously a failure of leadership on a massive scale. An organisation that always fuctioned totally at the behest of its leader is completely rudderless in its absence, and this splintering is the unfortunate result.
It is hard to see how the disparate groupings could ever again combine, even in the unlikely event that a new leader were to emerge in the near future.
Mendel, I will state once, and only once, that I do not find it necessary to subject ideas that the Rebbe himself stated to criteria like "cannot be taken seriously". People greater than you, true Gedolim, saw fit to see the Rebbe for what he was without asking you whether his views are too "Lubavitcher" or whether they can be taken seriously.
You seemed not to get the gist of what I argued in the first place. If closing ranks to protect child molesters teaching in your school is not crazy, I do not know what is. Ostracizing and kicking kids out of Boro Park yeshivos for simple questions on Judaism, or their particular brand thereof, is also far from unheard of. I'd be pretty surprised and dismayed to see someone generalize about all religious Jews based on incidents of such behaviour. Would you not?
Time out, the bocher was told to see a shrink and informed that this will be reported (again I think this is illegal). Who cares what they do in Boro Park? We are talking about this person who has a legitimate grievance. Why Boro Park. Would it make you feel better if they told you that you are nuts just like many in Boro Park?
I am not discussing those in Boro Park, and nor my own views. I fail to see what is so difficult to follow here; if a principal of a public school does something outrageous and illegal, he should be brought to justice. If he isn't, and in general the only thing anyone knows about this principal is that his name is Scallopini or that he is from the Seventh Day Adventists, then there is not much to talk about. Suggesting that there is a general problem with Italian or S.D.A. principals would be ridiculous.
Specifically, your comment like "Note how a Lubavitcher Rosh declares a person who disagrees with his own crazy views not normal" goes above and beyond the "confines" of logic. Much worse has happened in other kraisen, and nobody floated the outrageous thought of defining the problems there as Bobover, Belzer or other problems.
Virtually every Lubavitcher yeshiva has students who do not and will not follow the party line; I personally know a good few. To date, I have not heard of any cases of action even remotely similar to the abovementioned being taken. Why is one crazy Rosh Yeshiva being selected to represent Lubavitch? Or is there something deeper here?
Nothing deeper, the case is the rule not an exception.
TA, be honest. you don't know the bochur. it is hard for me to believe that someone would be comfortably situated in the lubavitch system and be talking against these beliefs. in fact, the last person that the boy should worry about is the rosh. he would have been ostracized and ridiculed ten times over, before he would have a chance to speak (and get spoken to) with the rosh.
Can it be that we aren't talking about a normal chabad yeshiva, and this bochur (obviously isanlely insisting to remain in this yeshiva) may not be playing with a full deck of cards?
TA, please get real. Aside from pupik's points, any report of a Rosh Yeshiva saying something of such a caliber to a bochur would trigger an outcry from the parents, the bochrim (who are looking for "action" and don't need too many reason to make trouble; an incident like this would be the perfect-case excuse to rebel), and who-knows-who-else. I have first-hand knowledge of this being the case even in the most repressive of yeshivos. If, as pupik has already pointed out, we are dealing with an otherwise-(at-least-mostly-)normal individual.
u go my man! this is the problem in CHABAD everyone is programmmed anyone with any independent thought is shunned and ostracized stay strong!!! these guys want you to be like sheep its reinforces the status quo
I really don't see what's eating TA, et al. I don't see anyone putting a gun to anyone's head to say Yechi even in 770, indisputably Yechi Central. In fact, during any given minyan most don't say it and it's generally the scene in most other shuls in CH. Incidently, Yechi HaMelech is only an expression of hope (gramatically at least) and not a statement of reality and I'm not a pin-wearing mashichist! Get a life, tayere breeder (as in brothers :) )!
Not so simple VosEpes; Social coersion is just like a gun. Fear of ridicule is a bullet. Fear of social isolation is a trigger.
It is hard to believe that a rosh hayeshiva would insist on a bochur meeting with a psychotherapist merely because the bochur takes issue with a matter of belief. On the otherhand I have come across a few principals and roshei yeshivos who for one reason or other have insisted on similar misguided and wrongheaded conditions.
No licensed psycotherapist should divulge anything to a third party without the client's express written authorization and certainly by law is forbidden to do so absent direct and explicit perimission.
Im sorry Pmh, the situation in CH (or in Lubavitch) is more complex than that. If there is social coercion it goes both ways, depending on the friends one has chosen. There is no overarching mashichist social status quo in crown heights. Even in Tzfat, the birthplace of yellow fever, there is a substantial anti community and peer group, and conversely in Detroit the home of extremist Ohelniks, one can find a Mashichist peer group to surround oneself with. It is also true that in most miyanim and shuls even when Yechi is announced by someone or other many (if not most) dont answer either for ideological reasons or cause they cant be bothered and noone looks twice.as for the noisy minority היינו דאמרי אינשי אסתירא בלגינא קיש קיש קריא
Commenting by HaloScan
