mentalblog.com comments:
There is a political satire comedy TV show in Israel called Eretz Nehederet. Apparently some significant proportion of young people are actually making their election choices based not on the candidates themselves but on their caricatures from the TV show. Democracy in action...
Yeah, the problem with political jokes is that they get elected!
Baruch Marzel's idea is "compelling" to idiots and morons, now officially sponsored by TA. Good for you.
Nudnik.
Whats the outlook for Yahdus haorah (Aguda and degel) ?
Paul Freeman, you are a very angry man.
You should seek professional help.
It will be good for you.
Jake's comment about Eretz Nehederet is not a speculation. He forgot to mention that this fact was established by an official survey carried out in Israel.
Re: Yahadut HaTorah and Degel. They have no agenda. They will get the same 5 seats, as for the last 20 years, despite the fact that Haredi population is fastest growing community in Israel. This is because there is a growing underground dissatisfaction of the Haredi voters with Agudah for its indifference and lack of initiative. Also, 2 Litvishe nominees - Litzman and Ravitz - are the first 2 of the 5 votes, and they can't care less for the rest of the list, who are Hassidic.
Published in Ha'Aretz:
"The poll also reveals that the primary source of information about politicians for one out of every five young eligible voters is the satirical television program "Eretz Nehederet" ("Wonderful Country")."
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hase...t&
itemNo=695523
For more info on the TV show:
http://www.keshet-tv.com/nehederet/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385411/
Watchdog. Sorry Litzman is a Gerer Chasid not a Ashkenaz (Mitnaged) and a memebr of the Aguda. No. 6 is also a Gerer so he may shake his legs to get a fellow chasid in.
Your reading of the list is completly wrong. Gafni is of Degel (he is an ex chasid). Porush is a Litvishe of the Aguda, and Halpert is a Vishnitzer. You should read up on the players and the party.
My prediction is that Kadima will get less than 30 seats. Likud will finish a close second beating Labor. A right wing coalition of Likud NRP Lieberman and Shas has an excellent chance of forming the next Govt. with the help of Hashem.
Paul Freedman doesn't think that Transfer is a "compelling" idea.
One of the things I love about Lefties is their remarkable ability to keep a straight face while demonstrating stunning levels of hypocrisy.
On the one hand, Leftists lent strong support for the Transfer of Jews out of Gaza - lock, stock, barrel, children and graves included. Forcing people out of their homes was hailed as 'the right thing to do'. Two states for two people, right?
But when precisely the same logic is applied to Arabs, they think it is for "idiots and morons".
Goose? Gander? Good for both...?
The result of the Oslo approach is two states for ONE people - ethnically pure Arab on one side and full Arab rights on the other side. Who are the idiots and morons now?
More Leftist hypocrisy:
Saint Yitschak justified signing Oslo with the PLO by preaching that peace is made with enemies, not friends.
Either the same logic applies to Hamas today and we should become friends with Mash'al, al-Sadr and bin Laden or else Oslo was wrongheaded, too. Or is "compelling logic" too harsh a term for this?
Watchdog. Get your facts right.
Aguda/degel are actually rising in the number of seats they are getting.
Only a few years ago they only had 4 seats and now they have agood chance of getting 6 seats.
Tzemach, wishful thinking but my prediction is Marzel won't get in.
MARabbi, you too can dream on . Unfourtanately kadima will get way more than 30 seats, they will probaly get closer to 40 seats than 30 seats.
The only hope is TA's closing sentance that notwithstanding kadima's major win they will still not be able to form a coalition.
Jeeshy peeshy: I am a happy man and the world is warmed by the sunniness of my disposition.
There is no parallel, none, effes, butkas, between a) Jews within a parliamentary system moving with compensation a miniscule population, a teeny tiny portion of the Jewish community from the sacred sand dunes of Gaza to locations within Israel AND b) the Jewish community KICKING OUT of Israel entirely 15 percent of its population because they are Arabs--kicking out, if I read this brilliant idea correctly ALL ARABS.
Few Jews on the one hand moved into the Green line by Jews, all Arabs on the other hand expelled from Israel by Jews.
Nooooo. Not the same thing.
But hey, logic has nothing to do with this anyways. Try magicall thinking. A belief in the magical efficacy of syllogistic constructions rattling around in a believer's head to translate magically into action because the believer weally weally weally wants it to be true.
Sort of like Oslo.
think of it this way--the money is given in both situations (assuming, a big if, that those pushing Transfer would come across with the money) so we ignore it for comparison.
So otoh movement within Israel of a small number of Jews and otoh compulsory movement outside Israel of all its Arab citizens because Transfer believers don't accept that Arabs can be citizens of Israel AND many if not most reject the notion of secular citizenship in a secular state as relevant for Jews in Israel.
B'hatzlacha
Paul Freedman writes that there is "no parallel" between the expulsion of Jews "within Israel" and the expulsion of Arabs, which he describes as "KICKING OUT of Israel".
So, according to Freedman, when Jews are moved from Gaza, Judea or Samarea, that is "within Israel" and it's no big deal.
But if Arabs are to be moved into these very same areas, then they are being "kicked out of Israel".
When Jews are pushed over a line, it's not a border. But if Arabs are being pushed over the same line, it suddenly becomes a border. Then it's OK to say that there is "no parallel" between the two cases. How convenient!
Freedman also conveniently describes the expulsion of Jews as something "within a parliamentary system" but the expulsion of Arabs as something done by "the Jewish community". Marzel and Lieberman both call for precisely the same criteria to be used as in the Gaza expulsion. If Moslem MKs can vote to ethnically cleanse "the sacred sand dunes of Gaza", then surely Jewish MKs can vote to do the same in the rest of Israel. Perfect parallels.
Freedman further explains that there is "no parallel" in expelling Arabs "because they are Arabs". He again conveniently ignores the fact that Jews were expelled from Gaza BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS. There were Moslem citizens of Israel living in Gaza before the expulsion and they were specifically excluded from the Army's expulsion orders. Only JEWS were forced out of Gaza. But if precisely the same were to be done to Arabs, Leftists, reeking of their characteristic intellectual dishonesty, come screaming bloody murder.
Paul Freedman also happily ignores the history of the area in question. Some Jews living in Chevron live in the very same places that their grandparents lived in before they were expelled by bloodthirsty Arabs in the 1920's. If people like that are to be "kicked out" of the homes they now occupy, then why not Arabs living in Yafo or Haifa? Goose and gander, remember?
Finally, Freedman misses the point ENTIRELY when he tells us that the promoters of Transfer "don't accept that Arabs can be citizens of Israel". Not at all. Transfer is aimed at averting the demographic catastrophe that Israel faces with a large, rapidly growing, unpatriotic and increasingly hostile Arab citizenry. (Ironically, the Europeans are arguably more alert to this same threat at home than the Israelis are.) Ehud Barak's campaign slogan Anachnu Kan, Hem Sham (We here, they there) expressed this concisely. (I was struck back then that Leftists can say precisely what Meir Kahane said and still call themselves 'enlightened'. Of course, when Kahane said this, he was hounded down as a "racist".) Creating an ethnically pure "Palestine" while leaving over 1,000,000 (and growing) Arabs to demand greater rights in Israel will only perpetuate the struggle. Without Transfer, the demographic threat that existed until recently in Gaza, Judea and Samaria will recur in the Negev and Galil within a decade or so, and in the rest of Israel within a generation or two. And then there won't be anything left to give away.
Freedman's failures in fact, history and intellectual dishonesty make his commentary here particularly unenlightening.
Since the Gaza expulsion, the compelling nature of the Transfer argument is one of the things that is helping gain Marzel and Lieberman votes. But blind, hypocritical, ignorant, intellectually dishonest Leftists don't get it. Never have, never will.
Point of clarification: I am not specifically advocating Transfer of Arabs.
However, I am making the point that any Transfer of Arabs is precisely as ligitimate and moral (or illiegitmate and immoral) as the very same Transfer of Jews, both as practiced in Gaza in recent months and also as planned by Olmert in the near future. Leftist hypocrites can't have it both ways.
"Transfer believers don't accept that Arabs can be citizens of Israel AND many if not most reject the notion of secular citizenship".. I think that anyone who has looked at the history of governance is going to acknowledge that a large minority with separatist aspirations and murderous methods is a problem. You don't have to "believe" to come to that conclusion. Logical thinking will be quite sufficient.
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