mentalblog.com comments:
I have the same exact experience.
In general I find most sichos boring, long winded and repetitive, even in the original, but to hear an ignoramus repeat this gibberish for way to long when you are hungry and waiting to go home is sheer torture.
When I was studying for smicha in Yeshiva, one of our Rabbis warned us about falling into the "sicha syndrome" trap and how it's disrespectful to the people, to the pulpit and most important to the Rebbe.
The "sicha syndrome" is pretty much exactly as you described.
I believe you and think it's irresponsible of the Rabbi.
The most upsetting thing is that the excuse is that people who are listening are not too knowledgeable but of course they feel what is authentic and what is not instantly. I also believe that this example we have in Boston is perhaps most grotesque in it’s absurdity but we are not alone. This Sicho abuse epidemic is most widespread in Chabad today.
Had this wonderous experience myself this past Shabbos, with the added bonus of parts being read right out of Likkueti Sichos. So the rav is not even looking at the congregation, he's staring and speaking right out of the book.
If they were to repeat a Sicha in it's original form out of Lekutei Sichos, that wouldn't be hafl as bad. What most people do today is read the abridged version of a Sicha out of Shulchan Shabbos or Maayan Chai, and then stumble their way through repeating that.
That's more of what I was describing Hoffman. Good description.
I agree with all of you that maybe the Rabbi may be at fault for the haphazard and disrespecting way in which he gives over the sicha (hes wrong mainly because its disrespectful to the REBBE.)
But for you to say - ''I find most sichos boring...repetitive"
all I can say is that clearly you arnt a very intelligent person and I think it would be best (for all- especially yourself) if you to keep your mouth closed
CC
The fact of the matter is that the Rebbes style was very,very long winded and repetitive and since he had to speak every shabos for a long time it was difficult even for a brilliant guy to come up with a home run every weak.Obviously it's very difficult for a hosid to be critical but the fact of the matter is the reason Lubavitchers learn and say over sichos is because the Rebbe said them not because of their own intellectual merit.I remember how most farbrengen attendees stood around for hours though they had no idea what the Rebbe was saying because of the yiddish and the lack of a mike
There are two divergent issues here. (1) Lazy and/or unintellectual rabbis who do not even realize how they insult the crowd, nor that they fail to understand the sicha that they are attempting to give over. (2) The Likutei Sichos themselves, which are generally complex and intellectually rich. A possible culprit for both (1) and (2) is how we were encouraged in yeshiva to "chazzer" a sicha at top speed, rather than learn, think and digest.
CC, you're the one who sounds unintelligent here...
Flatbush jew: are you talking about "likutei sichos" or a complete farbrengen trascript, such as "hisvadyos" or "sefer hasichos"?
you know youre in for snoozer the minute the guy says those four infamous words: "so the rebbe says (asks, answers, explains etc.)......"
the idea here is to present it as your own based on a sicha, not to repeat what someone else said and verbatim nochdertzu
This entire blog will have been worth it if even a few of the bochrimlach that read it will take this post to heart and realize that sicheis are to be learnt in order to reach true hiskashrus - an ability to look at Teiroh and the world adaitei derabbei. They should not to be turned into a crutch for the lazy and the ignorant. They were not printed to help banish all vestiges of original thought under the pretense of hiskashrus hamedumoh. And they were most certainly not intended to enable the self-absorbed droning morons create more Jewish misery in this world.
TA, im impressed on how you expect a sicho to be learned.
a sicho could be given over beautifully or it could be destroyed.
thte point is not always to repeat the whole book but you can say a whole speech of your own based on one point from the sicho.
gruntig,
Your point?
My bone of contention is how sichas are distorted and used by Meshichistin as weapons against their opponents.
The most abused phrase in Lubavitch is 'the Rebbe said.."
"berl" stam is NOT me.
Many rabbis in the Orthodox world think so little of their cong. that they compose their drasha Shabbes morning, walking to shul.
This is not only a Chabad issue. Most rabbis outside of RIETS never get any training in Holiletics or preaching.Few have any shimush with a senior rav to listen to a good drosha . Who in 770 gives a drosha for the last 60 years.How should the tmimim know how to give a sensable sermon ?
To be a good pulpit rabbi you need to study practical rabbinics.
When I lived on the Upper east Side I sometimes davened at the Park East Synagogue a Modern orthodox synagogue. One Shabbes Rabbi Arthur Schneier's sermon was the weeks editorial from the Algemeiner Journal.
Reb Gershon understood politics but I doubt he thought his editorials would make the pulpit in a MO synagogue.
On the other hand for years I was zeyche to hear 2 master darshanim Rabbi israel Schorr in BP and my rebbe Reav Shimon Romm in WH they sermons in Yiddish were masterpieces. well thought out and delivered.
this happens in flatbush too. do these guys think we are stupid. who are they kidding? they should not even bother to speak. this happens to be typical chabad...quantity with no quality. going thru the motions with total lack of regard to what is actually being done. whaT HAppened to sechel? bittul does not mean u lose total independent thought.
eigalach if you could be so kind as to drop me a line at redsinger@gmal.com.
thanks
Park East Synagogue is holding a Helfgott concert sometime now. It's being hyped royally.
Who is R.AS? Is his falling back on Algemeiner a product of ignorance or laziness?
Rabbi Arthur Scheier is of Hungarian background. As far as I can tell he has no concrete connection to the Schneersohns.IN truth he has accomplished much there. He replaced the Mechitzah kediboi. he started a modern day school well attended and in general has programs that diseminate traditinoal Judaism. He also has hired the best in cantorial talent to dignify the services .
He too is ordained by RIETS.
Last year Schneir's son attended the Alter Rebbe Tze'tzyim dinner. I think they are einelkach.
i recall seeing a video in which the rebbe affectionately reffers to the elder schneir as a korev by dollars
Tzemach: you've hit on one of my hot-buttons about divrei Torah in general, not just sichos. Too many people, when given the opportunity to teach a bit of Torah, say at a Shabbos afternoon parsha group, just take some parsha sheet off the internet, or from a book of parsha nuggets, and reads it. Plain. Clearly not having thought about it, not explaining it in context, etc.
When it comes my turn to give a talk, I may not say over the whole parsha nugget or sicha or whatever, I may pick a small part, and explain it, and the ideas behind it, etc., so the chevra can get some idea of what the author was saying, not just a buncha dead words.
And yes, this problem extends to rabbeim who never had a Freshman Exposition class, to learn how to structure an argument or essay. You have an idea, you have evidence, you repeat things to reinforce them, repeat them in different contexts to reinforce them, bring in more evidence, reach a conclusion, perhaps then branch off on a speculation for people to think about, and say Good Shabbos. The dvar Torah isn't an opportunity to demonstrate your reading skills, nor is it an opportunity to display your erudition by quoting dozens of people who fly right over the heads of your chevra. It's an opportunity to impart a bit of Torah, to get closer to Hashem, or to the Rebbe or other author. Not for self-aggrandizement, or overestimaiton of the other's attention span for boring stuff.
I've followed this discussion a little bit, and I've seen what you are talking about. IMHO, the plain repetition of the sicho is okay for someone who needs the introduction, and is better suited for one-on-one learning, where afterwards the ideas of the sicho will be discussed.
Here in Baltimore, I'm impressed with Rabbi Lisbon who gives over (between shacharis and musaf) what could be called sicho-plus. In general, there is a single sicho that he follows as a general guide, but will often include relevant side-trips into other texts and (often) relevant stories. This will all tie in to what is learned out of Torah Or or Likutei Torah Friday night (which will be finished by Shalosh Seudas).
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