mentalblog.com comments:
"Money makes the world go 'round,
A buck, a yen, a lire a pound,
it makes the world go 'round!" from the movie Cabaret.
If we made tuition more affordable would there be less frummies committing financial fraud?
Welcome a BT into the fold. Paint a rosey picture for him of spiritual fulfillment anddomestic bliss. Get him married and then sit back and watch him drown under the pressure of it all.
How far should we go to ruin people's lives?
I heard Rabbi Berel Wein speak on the radio some years ago in Israel. From memory, he was encouraging people to go out and earn a living - and not to expect the chicken and challah to drop onto the table miraculously.
I think his intended audience was the BT community - too many of whom really do believe that G-d will take care of everything and that they won't have to put much effort (or responsibility) into anything. (If FFB chassidim or others also believe this foolishness, they deserve what they then get.) There are plenty of BTs who develop these ideas of irresponsibility on their own.
Jake
Jake, not on their own. We were taught all this in the Yeshiva! My kids are being taught these ideas today. The responsibility lays is with the frum community. IMO.
the market should take care of this one.
people will not be able to afford so many children, so they'll have less which would lower the demand which in turn would lower the price.
simple, no?
Sto Pratzent; In the long term your opinion will be true, but tzedoka and welfare disrupt the short term workings of the market. And have done so for a least one generation.
Jake; Perhaps what pre-baalai tshuvah understand to be "frum" involves rejection of the worldy principles of responsibility.
Tzemach Atlas,
While I am unable to speak for others, and I am sure that maintaining Mentalblog is stressful due to constantly changing content, monitoring of comments and so on, just know that your hard work is greatly appreciated.
Chaiale (a/k/a Chaia Leah)
I would guess that it would be tricky for community leaders to set up a proactive vocational program in a cheredi school system that would guarantee success--markets change--but relying on governmental or social agency support is not a good thing in the long run.
pmh
welfare is in israel, primarily. uncoerced tzedokoh is part of the free market.
those will remain.
this is a new reality.
its the middle class that is mainly affected by this. the middle class that never took, that will never take and will never be given charity.
a painful reality.
Tzemach Atlas asked me to add this comment, as expressed on beyondbt.com.
There are significant considerations regarding the Dark Side of Aliya's financial implications that can never be discussed in America --it is a taboo given the community need to encourage aliya, particularly via nefesh b'nefesh.
We were not a typical American frum couple -- neither set of parents ever contributed any money, nor could contribute, to our family's budget either to buy a house or support yeshiva tuition. Zero. We lived on the basis of our joint income, which was approximately $130,000 --simply not enough for a home, tuition, retirement, health care --and still have funds for food in frum New Jersey (we are not talking the Five towns or Great neck, we are talking very modest New Jersey)
We came 3 years ago with 4 kids, and our Aliya has been a failure for many reasons that are not germain to this discussion. After 3 years on Israeli salaries, however, we have discovered that we simply cannot return to New Jersey and ever hope to pay even discounted tuition for them. There is a point somewhere in year three when one passes the financial point of no return in terms of ever going back to the States if the Aliya fails, and it is almost entirely based upon tuition issues. After taking 3 years income out of the equation of total earnings in ermaining years of career before me, I can either pay for my retirement and health care, or yeshivot.
As a result we are literally trapped in Israel for the sake of the kinderlach, and have joined the astoundingly large percentage of American-American marriages that end in divorce 3-5 years after Aliya..something else that no shaliyach mentioned before we came over. If one of the spouses is not native Israeli, and both are American, there is an astounding divorce rate due to the pressures of the reduced ramat hachayim from America.
These topics are simply forbidden for discussion in America.
The Lubav slant on this site leads to the generalizations regarding BTs. Don't ignore, however, the growing problem in the so-called Yeshivish community, where kollel and living in Israel until after 3 kids is encouraged by the Yeshivos and is supported by the folks back home. Maybe first generation wealthy families can afford this, but once the trust funds dry up, the second/third generations will starve, or need to get a job. Will we begin to see "Litvish" mishulochim every morning at shacharis competing for $1 with the heimeshe beggars?
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