mentalblog.com comments:
The Rebbe had a unsentimental view of aliyah. I once heard (indirectly) that he said that stopping abortion in Israel would be more beneficial and more cost effective than promoting aliyah.
Are you suggesting that the shliach is somehow to blame, for not telling you that there is a higher divorce rate?
And people should do their homework before they move to israel, the average israeli makes about 80% less than the average american.
I don't really get it, 130k is a pretty decent ammount to live off of.Retirement should be taken care of via social security payments which at your income should leave you with a modest but livable check.
Am I totally off?I'm not judging you or preaching, I may be totally wrong and I'd love to hear other posters opinions on how much is enough for a modest orthox life in the metro New York region
Lubab - the 130k after taxes, tuition for four kids, a mortgage, and insurance, is barely enough for expenses.
In todays day in age to assume social security will be sufficient for retirement let alone be around is a teribble assumtion to make.
Lubav, Ask a 30 - 40 year old single J woman in NYC if she would consider a guy who could produce $130,000 annual income (combined - including her income!). For most of these women, marrying means LOWERING their standard of living... And having and raising J children means enforced lifelong poverty...
We moved out of LA b/c we knew we would never be able to buy a house and afford tuition on a 100K a year salary. We moved somewhere less expensive, but still if you earn less than 200K there is no way to pay tuition for 4 kids. That is 40K a year. After taxes a 200K salary is only about 120K, then tzedaka, and you are left with 108K, then mortgage payments, tuition, car, insurance, you'll be lucky to have 1000 a month for food/clothes/anything else.
out of town
my analysis
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...7036863/
#164734
would not apply to you
most people however, have a different set of priorities...
Such a heart breaker ... I've lived here in the Land of Israel since 5733. Over the years people have asked my advice concerning Aliyah, and rarely have I strayed from my path: To everyone I say the same thing:
If you are making Aliyah in order to help the Jewish People with the challenges of reestablishing a Jewish state in the Land of Israel (i.e. help us solve our problems), Baruchim Habaim!
If you are making Aliyah in order to solve YOUR problems, stay where you are until they are solved. Coming to Israel will only compound the difficulties you will have to deal with, and even when you succeed it will be at a cost you probably are not willing to pay.
Unfortunately this story just confirms the wisdom of my advice.
Yoel; Your advice sounds reasonable. But you are really saying that people who have needs are not likely to become successful olim. This is odd because Israeli society is made up of refugees from European anti-Semitism and Arab anti-Semitism. Weren't those refugees needy people? Aren't you really saying only perfectly altrusitic, independently wealthy people need apply?
Yoel has a valid point in that American Olim are very different than Mizrahi and Eastern European Olim who came here burning all bridges with nowhere to return...when they sing "ain li eretz acheret" they mean it...in affluent American neighborhoods like Jerusalem's Rechavia and German Colony the kids really do sing "yesh li eretz acheret" and mean it....the ability to go back to the land of plenty and not suffer finanically so much (at least in theory)is the enormous yetzer hora that only the Americas/British/Canadians/Aussies and arguably French battle....no one pines for Mother Russia or POland or Yemen...and this is the basis of the divorce disease among AngloSaxons 3-5 years into Aliya when the lower levels of ramat chayim become permanent, but the women in particular (sorry but it is true) are still competing and comparing to their sisters and girlfriends in Great Neck coming to visit them and staying at the Inbal or King David, and taking the new israelis out for lunch or shopping like charity cases....it is simply cancerous, and never experienced by Olim from eastern europe --no matter how bad off they were/are, they were the ones still alive in Israel rather than dead in the forests in Babi Yar
MonseyTaliban; What you write is reasonable. But it's not what Yoel wrote!
I don't quite agree with Yoel.
Meshaneh Makom, Meshaneh Mazal. Some people have done quite well for themselves in Israel - though this is more the exception.
As for helping the Jewish people, Eretz Yisrael is not Ochelet Yoshveha - but the State of Israel certainly is! It's nice and patriotic to think that Israel wants your help here - but the firmly entrenched corruption in ALL aspects of life here will snuff out any attempts Chutznikkim make to actually improve anything. After a while, Olim are just happy to survive here... without making much impact on improving anything. Am Kshe Oref....
It's quite tragic....
Came across this by chance. I made aliya right out of high-school (alone), did college in Israel, spent two years in the army, found a wife, job, kids (4 + one on the way) etc.
I disagree with the comments above, I recommend "come here because you want to be here", not to help other people, or to solve your problems. If you are here "doing the rest of us a favor" you are going to view your aliya as a sacrifice, not as an opportunity/challenge.
There are numerous reasons why this country is better; specifically in education (not neccessarily the schools, but certainly the education the kids receive).
Maybe coming young is the key, but In my view I didn't sacrifice anything to be in Israel. I feel sorry for those who see it as a sacrifice. (I can live (better) without an SUV, fine china, and a plazma TV)
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