mentalblog.com comments:
Tzemach Atlas,
Thank you. Perhaps this will lead to more knowledge from one or more of your readers.
Glad to see you overcame the server problems.
Chaia Leah
Question: Mendel Horenstein was married to Sheina Schneerson. Did his sister Sonia ever marry?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Dear Chaia Leah,
I just emailed you! These photographs are amazing. It's like looking at some sort of alter-family album. I am looking forward to hearing back from you (though given my track record you have about three weeks)! Zayt gezunt un shtark!
Schneur,
This is interesting stuff.
Can you post the picture of the Maharash's mechuten?
Was R' Sander Bistrizky related to the Lubavitcher Bistrizky's?
Is R' Yisroel Friedman, rosh yeshiva of Oholei Torah, a Ruzhiner descendent?
Freyde,
You have interesting photos of the Horenstein family? Can you post them? Or did I misunderstand you?
As far as I know the orphan they were raising was also killed.
Sender was the brother of Laibel shlita.Friedman of Oheli tore is not a rizhiner eynikel as Friedman is a cmmon namein the jewish world.
Frankly I do not know who to speak to about the orensteins.
But ask yourself the following Is your family either from Galicia or teh Ukraine, when did they arrive here, are tehy connected to any branch of the Ruzhin dynasty. Did they deal in suagr in Russia ? These are all important amrkers. Good luck !
Horensteins were Kohanim. Is your father a Kohein?
"Friedman of Oheli tore is not a rizhiner eynikel as Friedman is a cmmon namein the jewish world."
This is true.
Reb Yisroel has told me that although he is not an Einekel of the Ruzhiner he is an Einekel of of another branch of the Mezricher/Friedman clan.
Friedman was not the last name of the Mezritcher Maggid. it was a name adopted by Rav Israel of Rizhin only when he escaped Czarist Russia (he escaped to Austrian territory -Galicia) to throw the Czarist authorities off his track.So we have a kasha on Rav Friedman of ohele Tore.
The marriage between Moshe Hakoen Horenstein and Chaya Mushka Schneersohn took place after the Rebbe maharash passed away. If my recollection is correct the Reshab and Razah arranged the shiduch and the rebbe Reshab stood in for his father at the wedding.
schneur
if im not mistaken r. yisroel is an einikel of the rizhiners brother. hes hes a member of the choshuver oddessa friedman family who were rabbonim in the ukraine.
if im not mistaken the berdichever rov before the war was his uncle.
he and his brothers went from chagas to chabad during the war years in samarkand, as their father passed on at a yopung age. (he'll sometimes slip and say something in an ukrainian accent)
chaia leah or schneur
mendel horenstein had siblings?
sto, that is the key question here. Who were his brothers?
Also you can see on picture that Sheina and Sonia look like sisters although they are cousins. Genes travel far…
meinyan le'inyan b'eisei inyan.. check this out
http://www.col.org.il/show_news...._news.asp?
19812
Dalia, on that picture has an amazing beauty!
she looks eerily like her grandmother and uncle....
"Also you can see on picture that Sheina and Sonia look like sisters although they are cousins. Genes travel far…"
dunno how far the genes traveled here as theyre both (sheina especialy) saturated with schneersohn genes....
it seems there was this schneersohn look back in the day. the FR writes that that is how he identified rabbiner yitzchok schneersohn. "he looked like a schneersohn"....
Yes sto, Dalia looks like the Rebbe. I didn't want to be the one who said, but it is not just me.
Schneur,
Thank you for your suggestions regarding MM Horenstein and family history. Unfortunately, my husband and his only sister have practically no knowledge of their family's past in Russia. This is why I am asking so many questions. I have read all of your postings and am amazed at your encyclopedic knowledge of matters such as this one.
sto protzent wrote:
"if im not mistaken r. yisroel is an einikel of the rizhiners brother. hes hes a member of the choshuver oddessa friedman family who were rabbonim in the ukraine."
This is what I heard from Reb
Yisroel Friedman as well.
So we have a kasha on Rav Schneur Zalman of New York.
not such a big kasheh
come to think of it the other friedmans i know of are of galician heritage, not ukrainian.
i guess r. yisroel would be able to enlighten you next time you speak with him.
What is the kashe ? The Rizhiner definetely changed his name to throw the Czarist authorities off track. As for the Rizhiner's brother one needs to check whether he had sons and perhaps they too changed their family name. Its a zarich iyyun !
Anyhow its very interesting !
Thanks for the photograph of Dalia Roitman and her mother.
I have never seen a picture of them.
Now could some one get a photo of Yisroel Arye leib A"H and print it .I understand there is sucha portrait hanging in dalia's living room in Rechovoth.
Regarding the Schneersohn look, a big part of it was the blond/red hair and beard. I saw this mentioned in a source quoted by Deutch in Larger than Life (I think regarding the Babroisker) and in the העבר of the 1950's discussing the מהר"ש and his family.
It's strange for those of us that grew up with a Rebbe with a dark hair/beard. He apparently did not have the Schneersohn look.
yehuda
the rebbe looked like his mother.
but even his father didnt have it given that that branch of schneersons didnt marry into family as much as the others
As an aside to the Schneersohn look :
Rav Baruch Shimen Schneersohn the Tchebiner rosh hayeshiva looked like the Alter rebbe sans his eye glasses.
Barry Gourary looked like his great grand afther the Rashab N.E.
R' Baruch Shimon looked like the alter Rebbe or R. Shamrya Schneersohn, depending on who the so called picture of the alter rebbe is really of. Schneur, perhaps you can enlighten us about that topic.
How do you know that Barry looked like the Rasha"b? Is that from looking at the picture or from someone who knew the Rashab? The picture of the Rashab is not very clear.
I recently saw the various postings on the Horenstein family and wanted to comment.
I am related to the Horensteins through my 2nd greatgrandmother Tzirul (born ca. 1823) ), daughter of R. Gur-Aryeh (ben Shmuel) HaKohen Horenstein. Over the years, in the process of researching my ancestry, I have learned a great deal about this illustrious chasidic family and I recently wrote an extensive article on them. Titled The Remarkable Radomysl Horensteins, the article is currently in press, and should appear in both English and Hebrew in the next issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel Genealogical Society. (see http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/B...SH-17-3-E.html)
.
I see that questions were brought up concerning R. Menachem Mendel HaKohen Horenstein’s siblings. My listing shows three siblings: Sarah (Sala) and Rochel (each had a child) and Leah (who died in her youth). He also had two half-sisters, Dora Leah (Dotzia) (who had children) and Sarah (Sala).
I have put together an extensive Horenstein family tree. If anyone has a specific question concerning the tree, please e-mail me and I would be pleased to help.
In response to Schneur Zalman of NY:
Earlier this year there were questions and comments on the Schneerson-Horenstein marriages. I have listings for four:
1. Shalom Noach Dulikaza, son of Sheina Bracha Schneerson, daughter of R. Yosef Yitzcock Schneersohn of Ovruch, married Hilda Horenstein, daughter of Israel Yakov Horenstein and Chaike Horenstein, about 1891.
2. Chaya Muscha Schneerson, sister of R. Shalom Dov Ber (the 5th Lubavitcher Rebbe) married Moshe HaKohen Horenstein, son of Gur-Aryeh HaKohen Horenstein and Taube Horowitz, in 1892.
3. Sheindel Schneerson, daughter of the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe (R. Yosef Yitzcock Schneerson) married their son, Menachem Mendel HaKohen Horenstein, in 1932.
4. Finally, my records list a Moussia Schneerson who married Moshe Horenstein (born 1869), son of Zalman HaKohen Horenstein and Ester Hinda Landau – but I have so far been unable to establish her ancestry. (Any suggestions???)
Also, if Schneur Zalman of NY is still reading this blog, I would very much appreciate a copy of the photo of Gurari HaKohen Horenstein that you acquired through Horenstein family members in Israel.
(By the way, my father once said that anyone whose given name is Gurari is a cousin and, indeed, that is generally true.)
My particular interest is in tracing the family further back in time to learn about the ancestors of my ancestor Tzirul. Despite considerable research, including contacting many family members, searching texts of rabbinical genealogies, and reviewing Ukrainian archival documents, I have been unable to substantiate the family’s yichus claim of descent from R. Naftali Ka”tz, the Smichat Chachamim (1649-1719) due to my inability to identify a few generations between R. Shmuel HaKohen (Horenstein) and the Smichat Chachamim. Any suggestions would be most appreciated!
Mel Werbach
mrwerbach-mentalblog@yahoo.com
B"H
Tzemach, in reading through your site I saw an interesting exchange from a man named "Menachem" dated 09-21-06, regarding his knowledge of Menachem Mendel Horenstein's family tree. In fact, you asked him if he would consider publishing the family tree, as you are a big fan of illustrations. In any event, is there any possibility that you could please either contact him or by separate e-mail, having him contact me at my e-mail address? Thank you in advance. I am still working on the Horenstein/Horensten Mystery.
All the best.
Chaia Leah
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