mentalblog.com comments:
It's pretty hard to set up a Mivtzah that will deter people from commiting a certain act. How do you know that people were not exposed to a bit of the Jewish tradition through the Mivtaim of the Rebbe that when it came time to marry they thought twice about marrying a non-jew.
I agree with you that even if there were isolated instatnces, it did not create a dent on the percentage of inter-marriage. However, I believe the Rebbe did look at the world as a balanced scale where one additional Mitzvah can make a diiference.
I am talking about Shluchim who come out and have no shame to say that “assimilation is not our business” or similar. I am going name names.
TA, it is indeed insane to say that “assimilation is not our business”. I personally never heard it from a Sliach, although this may be due to the fact that I tend to avoid them (with a few exception). However, it is unfair to demand from the Rebbe that he should have stopped assimilation. One person cannot stop the tide of history. (Some) Lubavitchers claim that he is G-d himself so he could. You disagree with them, so why do you demand achievements from the Rebbe that's beyond him.
Most shlichim are not sophisticated intellectually. They are interested in PR, and fund raising. They beleieve and are taught that by raising their voices and screaming they will get their message across. They know little about concepts as jewish identity, self growth, spiritual realizatino, acculturation, sexual revolutions etc etc.
Most shlichim can not tell you the difference between assimilation and acculturation.
They don't know what either is.
that being siad I think that Lubavitch is doing more than all other groups in the US to stem assimilation. Chabad houses and Chabad media propoganda wakes up the pintelle Yid in American Jewry. I bet the rebbe's photo has stopped many inter marriages .
All is not well in the world of Chabad houses , but bederech mimeila, they are in the front row of battling assimilation even if they do not know they are involved in doing that !
What is the difference between assimilation and acculturation?
TA,
There is no such thing as "stopping assimilation". "Assimilation" is an abstract concept. Look at aish.com and look how they "stop assimilation", and have in the last 3 years become the most watered down Jewish organization in the modern era.
Judaism has halacha, hashkafa, mitzvos, minhagim, aveiros, middos tovos, middos raos. "Assimilation" is a meaningless word. "Stopping assimiation" is a meaningless phrase.
Let me break it down for you. There is a mean mamzer here named Rabbi Posner in Boston. He sits on hundreds BU girls and he would not share. Let him know this when he marries his daughter in CH this weekend. The man is pure evil. I can go on.
I have been reading your blog for quite some time and the one conclusion I have come to is that you are pretty sick. I really don't intend this as a judgement but I think that you really don't notice how absurd your writing is. "Guilty of massacre as charged". I don't know what to make of this. You really need some proffeisional help for all the negitivity that runs through your brain. Refuah Shleima
"I bet the Rebbe's photo has stopped many inter-marriages"
What can I say? Schneur can repeat 1000 times "ich bin nit kein chossid fun dem zibeten Reeben…" but the truth is epes andersh. :)
The Rebbe was very clear! The avodah of ahavas yisroel was a "one mitzvah at a time" project. The rest would come from "mitzvah goreres mitzvah". This is not the Rebbes inovation but that of the tanaaim.
Your quibble is with them!
Sidney, but no take Posner as an example it is end justifies means. It is not seeing a person but a Jew. Not a human being but an object to apply the uforazto. The opposite of what you write.
Berl, CH is just like Posner only meaner. He would literally kill for the party idea.
Sorry Tzemach! I don't buy it. I had a personal experience with him that leads me to believe otherwise. I admit he could use a few strong l'chaims once in a while but otherwise! Nu Nu!
Be that as it may, I was writing about the message not individuals. One mitzvah at a time. I know how I incorporate the message and I try to influence others to do the same. That goes for non jews too.
There may be a bad apple or even more in a bunch this should not cause hesitation in tasting of the fruit.
"He would literally kill for the party idea"
I think you meant to say "kill for the party" or maybe "kill for the party ideals." But it definitely doesn't sound right to say "kill for the party idea." It just makes no sense. Please correct.
Tzemach,
What do you mean by "sits on hundreds BU girls and he would not share."
BU = Boston University?
What is he? A multiple rapist? A poligamist?
"[W]ould not share" with whom? Are you implicating yourself?
Is he literally a "mamzer" or simply a nausiating creep?
All this talk of "intelectual paucity" (OK my words..) BUT, the reality is, assimilation is but a SYMPTON (or endgame) due to lack of, education (hence, Mivtzah Chinuch), Kashrus observance (Mivtzah Kashrus), Tefillin Bechol Yom (Mivtza Tefillin), family cohesiveness (Mivtzah Taharas Hamispacha) and so on.
IOW, MITZVAH MASIYOS. As in Mitzvah Goreres Mitzvah. As one who is in the trenches, somewhere in the states, let me tell you this: It really dores concern 99% of us. The fact you "chance upon" a moron (or two) is not an indication of the entire story. (unless of course, with Soviet background propoganda, the Jews are always guilty as charged - surely you espouse a more democratic ideal than this on your "open and democratic"site.
Sovietska Soyouza,
I hope you saw my apology to you regarding the 24 teves sicho & mi hu yehudi. (in the original thread).
I disagree that "assimilation is an abstract concept."
Concrete assimilation is disappearance -- fading into the Christian/American background
When I first moved to St. Charles, IL from a Cleveland eastside suburb, where I was a minority among Conservative, Reform, and secular Jews, I wondered were the Jews were. It didn't take me long to find out they were "hiding," i.e. pretending not to be Jewish. They are married to secular gentiles or Catholics (lapsed or otherwise). These men -- the ones I know of are men -- haven't converted, but their children are not Jewish and probably will not marry Jewish.
Sometimes I see a face or hear a voice that suggests a Jewish parent or grandparents.
The local Hadassah chapter is tiny. Some of its members are Christians married to Jewish men.
A few Conservative and fewer Reform families live in the area. The house I live in was purchased from a Jewish couple.
MarybN, you don't disagree with me at all. You have merely offered some concrete examples of the abstract concept. There is no way to "stop" the phenomenon you describe, with which Yehupitz is too familiar, in a head-on manner. We can only try to pre-empt it mitzvah by mitzvah, shiur by shiur etc.
What those shluchim who say they don't do the "assimilation" thing probably mean is that they don't tackle the concept head-on as a concept. But they deal with its concrete causes and symptoms all day long. I know I do.
Not only did the Rebbe not stop assimiliation, but intermarriage increased from less than 25% to 50% under his watch.
"Every soul saved, blah, blah, blah, you don't know the value of one guy putting on tefilin, blah, blah, blah"
Anyway, assimilation was the result of the enlightenment. Jewish culture was so tied up with Europe(even to speaking a European language) there was no way for secular liberation and knowledge not to have permanent effect on Jewish consciousness.
"The stars are matter,
We are matter,
But it doesn't matter"
-- Don Van Vliet
Rejoice in your insignificance & and the meaninglessness of your life!
I am no Lubavitch sympathizer, but blaming the Rebbe for not stopping assimilation is a bit ludicrous.He was one person, albeit with a dedicated army, but 'stop assimilation'?!!
Is a single person a world on itself or not?
when moshe rabbeinu commited a simple aveira, he was punished very severely by not being allowed to enter Israel.
when Korach challenged moshe (not too differently from what the Jews did all through their journey from Egypt), he was punished very severely iwht death for him and his family.
A gadol hador has a much greater responsibility to the welfare of the public than a simpleton ... and he gets punished much more severely (e.g. by mentalblog).
Wait till I settle with the source of all evil, the G-d himself. I know He must be shaking in his boots, afraid of mentalblog.com
The best way to settle scores with G-d:
Drink your negel vaser in the morning. That'll show him! :)
the premise here is that the lubavitcher rebbe
1. was the (only) one to stop assimilation.
2. was obligated to stop assimilation.
A. how does one reach this premise?
B. given that these were your expectations of him (only that he disappointed you), it's then fair to say that you really and truly admired the LR....
"then it's fair to say that you really and truly admired the LR..."
duh!
TA, slowly but surely you are developing into Ariel Sokolovsky's alter ego; he deifies the Rebbe and you demonize the Rebbe. As they say les extremes se touchent. Get help, the two of you.
P.S. You did'nt say what you mean by "sitting on hundreds of BU girls".Does his wife know about it or is she sitting on hundreds of guys?
BTW, it was the Jews who sank the titanice as well, as in, goldberg, Greenbers, Silverberg and iceberg...
Come on! let's look at this issue properly and in a mature manner.
Whilst it is correct (Rachmono Litzlan) that the rate of assimilation is raging out of control in the last 50 or so years, there are many reasons for this, however, focus on what we are doing.
What the Rebbe effected, was the idea to go out and deal NOT with the symptom, but with the cause, and gave hope and inspiration that the battle is not lost.
This was not a call for a pat on the back, anyone who knew the Rebbe's response to achievments would know, that the Rebbe was NEVER satisfied in what has been accomplished.
The purpose of a Kinus Hashluchim for example, is as much to do with inspiring another generation to take up the mantle, as it is about patting on the back.
However, after all is said and done, here is a question for all os us; What are we going to do TODAY to make a difference in our own lives and the lives of others?
> You did'nt say what you mean by "sitting on hundreds of BU girls".Does his wife know about it or is she sitting on hundreds of guys?
Yeah, TA. Out with it. Just what DID you mean by that cryptic statement?
I don't know about Posner, I have non-religious family in Boston who he helped out quite a bit, and they are not major contributors or anything. Can you clarify what he is or is not doing?
BTW, what's your take on the Russian fellow there, DR?
my take on Hazorim beDima Rodkin :-: :-: :-:
Everyone knows that Posner is rude, mean and curt but he also chaperoned hundreds of girls under his influence in Boston U. He would not share any of them. Same with Zarchi or any other Shaliah in the area. There are dozens of them here, all bastards in regards to this issue.
Hazorim beDima Rodkin claims to service Russian Jews here (don't even get me started). Everyone knows that assimilation is even a bigger problem for Russian Jews. Over the ten years that Dan "serviced" this community was there a single event for young Jews where they can meet? Not one that I remember.
Let me break it down for you. There is a mean mamzer here named Rabbi Posner in Boston. He sits on hundreds BU girls and he would not share. Let him know this when he marries his daughter in CH this weekend. The man is pure evil. I can go on.
-----------------------------------
Rabbi Posner is a character whose approach is not for everyone, but I do not understand what you are writing about here. He has always had a small but steady fan club - and has always turned a few people off.
C"mon Chabad by providing Jewish education, programming, literature etc to a broad swatho of American Jews CAN NOT BUT be putting a break even the slightest on the rate of assimilation.I am sure that many Chabad campus shlichim do posative programming and encourage the student's jewish identity.
Lets face it its hard to quantify love and romance . Can I stop such an inter religious marriage or romance , no way. But the furtherance of a posative jewish image can do wonders. Yes I may have serious issues with Chabad establishment , but the in the battle for the future of Jews we are on the same team . I recognize their serious efforts. Some players may not be up to snuff but they are doing more than any other Jewish group in the world.
Yes, the Rebbe's image has stopped assimilation. A jew in Chandrikeve opens up the national daily and ses the picture of the rebbe . What happens next he thinks of the great grand father and sets off a jewish chain reaction.r etc and who knows , he may just feel a tingling of Jewish pride.
I know Menachem Begin and the Six day War did the same.
The Rebbe's picture has become a jewish cultural icon in the uS perhaps on par with the Menorah and the Star of david. Dmus diyukono shel yaakov Avinu!
Schneur, sure, it reminds them of santa claus. The generation that remembered grandfathers that looked like the Rebbe died 50 years ago. Have you been reading too much of Bies Moshiah lately?
"Dmus diyukono shel yaakov Avinu!"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow. No contemporary mashpiah comes to my mind that speaks with more chassidisher derher un kluge eidelkeit! You sound like a zokein verogil!
...
TA, I myself once overheard a poshuter (gor a poshuter!) Chabad fundraiser having lunch with a young Jew. Money he was definitely not going to get. He spent the entire time trying to convince him to date a Jewish girl in spite of the fact that he had a non Jewish girlfriend.
Give credit where credit is due.
BTW, Shneur, you are on the mark!
He did not have a Jewish date for him, he was tlaking about not dating a Shiksa. Don't be stupid Boruch.
No, I tell you, he HAD a Jewsih date for him. It was all set up, he even gave the telephone number. I was nispoel.
I don't get it. The Shluchim want to make money. If they find me a match I will pay $5,000 upon endgament and another $5,000 over a year. Plus the mitzvah.
Chabad fundraiser having lunch with a young Jew... He spent the entire time trying to convince him to date a Jewish girl in spite of the fact that he had a non Jewish girlfriend... he HAD a Jewsih date for him
Ñâîäíÿ ăđóṇ̃íî çà ṇ̃îëî́...
Where did he learn about the great mitzvoh to facilitate בעילות נדה
?
misnaged-in-law,
were would you be today if not for beilas nidoh?
One also can't help but wonder why he wrote בעילות instead of בעילת ? What might בעילות mean? Perhaps some kind of an organization (as in רבנות ) in charge of .........?
yehupitz,
You are right -- thank you.
There is another side to assimilation -- the Christian side. Most of the Christians who marry Jews are probably people of good will who believe they are acting to wipe out the evil of anti-Semitism that has plagued Christianity since the beginning. This may especially true of Catholics. The best example I can give is my Polish Catholic neighbor back in Ohio who, while not converting herself, was raising her three sons in her husband's Reform Judaism.
What to do? Members of the Charedi community and others need to go to the suburban churches and talk to parents and teens. Christians need to be told that Jews are being loved to death. They need to be told face to face and with sensitivity: Please don't date our children. Please don't marry our children. There are lots of you and few of us. We are being overwhelmed.
A couple of years ago, after picking up my daughter from college in Chicago on a Friday afternoon to bring her home for the weekend, we drive down Devon through its bustling business districts finally reaching the Russian Jewish neighborhood. People are hurrying to shul. A young man, tall and tense, clutching something close to his chest and walking fast passes by. My daughter is looking. He's impossible not to notice.
"Mom! He's cute."
"He's Jewish, Karen."
And on her face a mixture of expressions I had never seen before -- guilt, shame, and sadness, but it passes quickly because the lesson makes sense and has been learned.
Berl, Hebrew language also utilizes a plural feminine form. Unless you have some knowledge of this particular relation being limited to a single בעילה
When describing the type of the act, the expression is in singular form as in שמירת שבת and, though תמידית הפעולה is implied here (and with it also the multiple repetition of the act), we do not say שמירות שבת .
When the stress is specifically on the multiple repetition of the act, ( as in ריבוי בעילות של נדה אחת , or כל בעילות הנדה ) then the plural from would be used.
Also, if we are talking about many נדות that were בעולות , then, too, it is appropriate to say בעילות נדה . Why, you ask? Because the plural from is applied to the נסמך , so even if we are talking about one guy and many women, we would still not say בעילת נדות . But in לשון חכמים it is OK to say בעילות נדות in such a case.
'misnaged-in-law,
were would you be today if not for beilas nidoh?
berl, crown heights | 06.21.06 - 10:27 pm | #
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What a nasty comment.Feh.
Berl, wrong question.Where would his kids be, if not for...
T.A.: I am talking about Shluchim who come out and have no shame to say that “assimilation is not our business” or similar. I am going name names.
Please do so.
In a similar vein. My daughter was hired to act as a head couselor at a Lubavitch-run camp in California. In preparation she composed a camp song that ended with some innocuous and traditional reference to Moshiach. When she presented it to the camp director my daughter was informed "the song is fine except for the last line. You'll have to change it. We are not doing the Moshiach thing at this camp." Some people are just oblivious to the "idiot wind" howling out of their mouths. I shudder at the arrogance,
Regardless of one's position in the Lubavitch generated Moshiach controversy it is still a wonder about the lack of integrity, fidelity and courage of some who call themselves Lubavitchers.
"integrity, fidelity and courage"
Shluchim?! California?!
Talk about idiocy!
The Shluchim stood by as a fellow shaliach was being destroyed.
They stand by while the head shaliach gives control of their own children's chinuch to people, with no other qalification other than, that they are the progeny or married to the progeny of the "head shliach". (these progeny do hire titular heads (or "head aches" depends who you speak to))
They stand by after hearing that a speaker at the shluchos convention extols the sensitivity of the the Hebrew Academy in Huntington Beach towards its NON JEWISH STUDENT'S PARENTS!
They have stood by for years as the Telethon has embaressed them and caused great chilul Hashem!
It's funny; I used to wonder what the Rebbe meant to teach me when I heard him say that some Israeli Ministers and members of the Kenesset cared for their "benkel" more then their principals.
"integrity, fidelity and courage"?
It dosen't exist (ok! ok! maybe it does but is intimidated into the underground)not about Moshiach nor about things less controversial.
By the way how did you allow your daughter to take a job without first inquiring who she would be working for?
sidney,
While they 'stand by', they do their work. What other choice do they have at the moment? Hopefully an opportunity for a 'regime change' will present itself, the sooner - the better. In the mean time they can't hope to get neither a fair beis din nor a fair civil court judge to rule in their favor should they take the nutcase & his thuggish kids on...
berl
'regime change'
Shtikah k'hodaya!
It has already happened. While all were intimidated into silence.
Day to day decisions rest with one of the "head shliach's" children and the head shliach is basically in retirement at his mountain retreat (literally and or figuratively).
Mailah that he is in controll of tens of millions of dollars worth of assets but the lives on hundreds of shluchim are in his hands (of course if they have no assets they are, for all intents and purposses, safe). They don't even have the option of leaving unless it is empty handed. I know that it hasn't gotten this bad all over, yet, but how long will it be before we see this in other States?
We actually are! And the silence continues!
The shluchim were bombarded by their Baaleh Baatim about the Dershowitz fiasco, yet nothing. How about Aguch bragging about their close connection with Rabbi Hertzberg A"H(a ligen tor men nisht ober nisht yeder emes darf men shrayen foon di decher). The list can go on!
Integrity, fidelity and courage are the hallmarks of emeser mentchen in difficult situations!
I heard that one of the Gerrer Rebbes wore his tiphilin a "little" off center. When asked about it he said "this is how my father put them on my head at my bar mitzvah I see no need to change"
Lots of jealousy against the most succesful shliach of them all.
The guy 'conquered' Cali for Lubavitch, now they want to eat him alive.
I'm no Lubavitch supporter or sympathizer and am not sure that the Jewish world is any better off ,now that Shlomo Cunin has basically taken control of much of Jewish California.However a Lubabs perspective should be the outmost admiration for a Bronx kid, who came out of nowhere to build such an empire.
Instead,Lubab 'petz' like Berl, who sit on their tuchus in Crown Heights and do diddly are full of critiscm
Once again, Tzemach and his non-sense ramblings!
There is none, and there has been no Jew, dead or alive, in the last hundred years, who has done more for the rescue of the Jewish people as a whole than the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Period.
Hundreds of thousands of Jews are still Jews today thanks to the Rebbe and his infinite wisdom.
Want an example? Try and date a shiksah, go ahead.
Then, tell her you can't take her out this Friday evening because you are going to Shabbos services (if you were a BU student, you could add "at Rabbi Posner's Beis Chabad ;) ). Then tell her Motzei Shabbos that you'd take her out, but Rabbi Posner invited you and a bunch of your friends to go to the Melave Malka Cafe ...
By Sunday, don't bother calling her. She'll have found someone else who won't fail her on those precious weekend evenings!
That is not an isolated case. There are thousands of cases, all over the world, where simply going to a Beis Chabad has changed a Jew in a critical moment. There simply is no study done -- as far as I know -- on how many intermarriages have NOT taken place thanks to the Rebbe. Not to mention, how many yiddisheh kinderlach have come into this world by Jew-who-marry-Jews because they met at a Chabad activity somewhere.
What happens, Tzemach, is that you're so blinded by looking for the "what's wrong", and for who is droping out, that you can't see what is right, and how many, many more Jews are joining in.
Furthermore, the rate of Jews who come to Chabad (or, should I say, who are reached by Chabad wherever in the universe they may be at), and STAY in yiddishkeit, is way, way, way higher than that of Aish or any other kiruv group.
We are coming closer and closer to the day when more that 50% of Jews in danger of assimilation are turned around -- by-and-large through the Rebbe's long-reaching hand -- and the numbers of Jews in the world beging to grow. And then, someday, not to far in the future, we'll recover the Six Million lost in the Shoah!
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