mentalblog.com comments:
thats what we learn from Cali, you need a strong leader...
Tzemach,
I see your a bit slow that site been out for quite sometime.
Ploni
i linked to it before
From the daashakohol website: "Click for a Link to Fort Dix" Helerious!
I don't know whether the daashakohol bloger reports are true (and they very well maybe - I have spent too much time on mentalblog to hear CH news). One thing is clear though - that blog is run by a rare idiot! Di lesheines zaine! I think he is the one with the 'head trauma'…
God Almighty has struck his people with madness! it's simply insane. and the most surreal and insane thing is the letters of both rabbonim. i think the residents, at least those who do not have tangible interest in the conflict, should express some kind of motion of no confidence to both rabbis. they should both resign. i know it sounds very stupid and naive, but how else this situation could ever be corrected? who in their sound mind will seek these buffoons' advice on matters of law and spirit?
The reality is that Lubavitch has very few talmidei chachomim of (any)the caliber to be on a bais din.
I happen to think that Rav Schvei is a feiner yid despite backing the 'yellow fever' meshichisten.I don't know Rabbi O.
Such a 'shod':Rabbi Schveis' brother R'Aizik was such a brilliant mentch that died young.Had he not been a Lubavitcher he would be at the forefront of the younger talmidei chachomim of his day.Chaval al deavdin
Buffoon -- definitely.
Can any explain what recourse is available to the Jewish victim of a criminal act where the accused in Jewish. Is it valid for the victim to withhold testimony when a public danger exists?
It definitely has a precedent.
Mes. Sotah 22 amud beis, the "plague of the Parushim".
Lubavitch - all of it, is out of control because of two reasons. #1, Intimidation and #2, not enough people with balls to stand up to this intimidation. Unless of course everyone, has lost their moral compass.
Where is the fire in the Chassidim?
Where is our drive not to let down all of our Nesiem? Isn't the love for our Rebbe great enough to stand up to these "buffoons"? Evverywhere?
what we need is a revolution. Takeh bedarkei noam but a revolution.
as the bumper stickers say, time to trim the "bushes".
We need some Baalei Mesiras Nefesh Woman to stand on Kingston and pulicly reprimingd any woman that is not dressed tzniusdik. That is the only way to stop this. Woman will bee afraid to go on Kingston with sleevless shirts and miniskirts without socks.
Secession? It would require a lot of organization.
It is only natural for meshichism to turn to the present state: which incorporates no accountability to anyone, to any system of Torah, lack of Torah learning and Torah knowledge, fershtunkene gayvoh, and unprecedented rishos, "shlechtzkeyt" that exist in a meshichist. This combination leads to gleychgiltikeyt in going to goyishe courts and resorting to messiroh and turning it into a mitzvoh.
Aguh used the courts first against Barry Gourary. Midah kNeged Midah.
Aguh used the courts first against Barry Gourary. Midah kNeged Midah.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 06.23.06 - 12:59 pm | #
You must be really not up to current events. Check out once again how many other court cases they have initiated, against 770, book publishing, etc. they have refused to respond to Dinei Torah, they have disgraced Rabbonim and our system of a Din Torah.
who are they?
Aguh.
Court case against Fisher (on for almost twenty years?, against Hershkops, to steal money from Wienstock tzavooh to machneh yisroel (the Rebbe) and now the anticipated split and journeys between Vaad hakohol members, and now the new precedence: clear permission to messiroh (with the stamp of mitzvoh and chovah).
Jerry,
You are probably right that there are also some cases of court journeys by members of non-meshichisten. They differ in the amount and most importantly in the "culture" of kochen and "leben mit di court" in the courts and making a mitzvoh of every court case with a rishoos typically seen by meshichist.
And not to forget: a large group of non-meshichisten are "closet meshichisten" and they are the foreunners of the meshichism keyodua leyodey ch"n.
tzorichiyun,
the examples you give further substantiate my point.
those people being taken to court would not come or listen to a din torah and because of THAT those taking them to court resorted to this way i.e. courts, of find justice (although I'm not so sure that it is proper)
In the examples I gave you of Aguch taking others to court they lechatchilah ariber are not goiress any effort to deal with a Din Torah fair to all parties.
mah hoyo lonu????
It's all F.. up. and its got nothing to do with Moshichistim or not. It's got to do with image, power and money. As someone else said "Dem Bainkil".
Great Dialogue in Comments, at Daashakohol.com
Dovy said...
What about the Block Party? Are we having one, yes or no?
July Fourth is coming, l'havdil, Gimmel Tammuz is coming, and no preparations have yet been made.
Who will bring the franks, sourcrout, ketchup, soda, fries? And the big boombox speakers - or keyboard.
We can all get along if we have a party together, block by block. We agreed to this a while ago. It's time to stop bickering and prepare the party.
Think about it. Would Moshiach be happier seeing us eating franks together, or suing each other in court?
If Moshiach thinks he's going to come and find us all learning Samech Vov, well sadly, I think that might be a long time in coming. But a block party - that's a possibility! We'll rock, rhumba, roll and rikud together, and - trust me - we'll all be nicer to each other that way.
After all, you don't sue the person you just danced with.
June 23, 2006
Block Party Logistics said...
Dovy,
I just love your idea.
It sounds like so much fun!
We just have a "few minor details" to work out, to make sure "everyone" is happy:
1) The Franks can't be Rubashkin's because 3/4 of CH doesn't use Rubashkin's any more, because they can't trust Brooks CHK.
2) You have to work out the Dancing part, if the Dancing will be with or without Moshiach Flags or 1/2 and 1/2 to keep everyone happy.
3) Which rav will address or be honored, by the party?
Having both could be explosive and having only one, you will be boycotted by the other side.
4) Make sure to have the Riot police "on call", just in case Rubashkin looses his temper and gets into one of his Rage's and starts beating up people as he did by the Netzigim Meeting.
5) Which music?
If you play Yechi, then the all the Anti Meshichists will leave if you don't play yechi then 3/4 of CH will not come?
That's just "a few minor details" to be worked out.
All the rest should be smooth sailing....
Go for it!
June 23, 2006
Block's Parties said...
The Block Party
Dovie's idea of a block party is fantastic. "Block Party Logistics" raises some important issues we will need to address and consider in order to implement it. But that should be an easy job. Just need to handle a few "details."
How do we handle the details? Let's see.
We will probably need to set up committees to handle each item. We should have reprentatives from the community, of course.
Hmmm, we can get repesentatives from each block, or each Shul on the block. Lets call them, uhm... maybe "netzigim."
Oh, and we'll need to elect a Chairman, to organize everything. And probably an executive committee, too.
And of course, it would be important and helpful to lobby the Rabbonim, so that we have rabbinic support.
Everyone will surely work together on this. And if there are differences of opinion...
Uh oh.. this is sounding all too familiar.
Oy, details, details.
Was it Gustave Flaubert who said: "The devil is in the details."?
June 23, 2006
Shiminkeh said...
No, it wasn't Gustave Flaubert.
I believe it was Berel Shemtov in the late 1960's, who, when asked by one of his workers why he gave him a thirty dollar check instead of a three hundred, and left off the detail of one of the zeros, replied: "zero shmero, detail shmetail, zerazeh, get out of here and go to Texas! And take the devil with you!"
v'chain hoyo.
June 23, 2006
This is great! Humor and wit rules!
isit true that 3/4 of CH don't eat Rubashkin?
> isit true that 3/4 of CH don't eat Rubashkin?
Absolutely true. They will only eat Shor HaBor.
Shor HaBor is also Rubashkin
Jerry,
The examples you gave have the same annd better pretexts (find justice) etc. But it's neither here or there (i will not convince you neither you'll convince me).
The messiroh precedent with a stap of approval of "chovoh" is an watershed.
And it requires some level of shlechzkeyt that is interwtiwned with "helikeyt" that exist in meshichisten. Combined with the constant physical violence that was experienced post 3 tammuz (puncturing tires, physical abusing Shemtov and Krinsky and went on until recently when they threw eggs on shemtov) that is sanctioned by the shlechkeyt of the helige meshichistin.
tzorichiyun,
The messiroh precedent with a stap of approval of "chovoh" is an watershed.
Listen, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I just finished giving you (including the ones you brought up) a whole bunch of examples of situations of people and institutions who make a farce of our Torah and the Bais Din process which by the way are overwhelmingly with those who you consider not Moshichistim (isn't all that mesirah as well) and you tell me about throwing eggs, give me a break.
And again, if I read you right, this most recent "Moshichist thing" you're refering to, was instigated by a convict who is out of control and for whom once again, Rabbonim is the last thing on his mind, besides using them as pawns to further his agendas.
wake up and smell the coffee.
Ok, i was trying to be discreet. I'm not interested to show you and others how the meshichisten made a farce of the system of Torah and Halocho and following the system created by the *Rebbe* before 3 Tammuz where injustice and wickedness was the the hallmark of the meshichisten.
but let the sane observer see something clear in order to make a cheshbon hanefesh amiti and not twist choshech into ohr as customary by meshichisten:
This fiasco has nothing to do with "anti-meshichisten"; it is completely a split within the meshichist ch community! The "convict" you talk about was always a vocal meshichist who declared yechi every time he came to the microphone; he was voted by 71% of the community where he was rightly perceived to be a meshichist and a convict! He was not aligned with the anti's!
And a while after that election we have a huge split in this community and back to court and messiroh!
A true cheshbon hanefesh would also point to a certain aspect of this debacle: that after R. Marlow's a"h passing the meshichist community was concerned that perhaps R. Osdoba would spoil the total chaos of the meshichisten, for he wrote against them: against the shvil and against reciting yechi next to "hashem hoo Hoelokim" and Shema yisroel!
The meshichisten and the russian meshichist leadership could not swallow this any longer and therefore they posted another candidate to be head of the Beys Din to neutralize R. Osdoba (who is also not gezhe from nevel).
And a true chechbon hanefesh would also lead one to perhaps see if there is "mida keneged mida" as TA mentioned. (And remember this fiasco does *not* involve R Krinsky and R Shemtov). If there is such a measure here it is the fact that actually many in the community either attacked the people and instituions of the Rebbe (Meros, Aguch, Machne) and at the same time created the meshichism. Some of them created this new religion directly; others stood by and watched idly hoping that in the meantime the meshichist leadership would bump off the people appointed by the Rebbe and their mosdos. They used all tactics including resorting to courts etc.
What we see now is how the very same people: split and fight amongst themselves the Rabbinate and the leaders of the Vaad Hakohol (the very same bodies that fought the system set by the Rebbe and the same body that created false meshichism). And to top it off with the same unfortunate tactics of courts and the chidush now: of accepted messiroh and "mitzvah".
"We need some Baalei Mesiras Nefesh Woman to stand on Kingston and pulicly reprimingd any woman that is not dressed tzniusdik. That is the only way to stop this. Woman will bee afraid to go on Kingston with sleevless shirts and miniskirts without socks."
Boruch Hashem, those mesiras nefesh people are in abundant supply. Perhaps in too much abundance, actually.
Who cares who the Beis din includes.
Those who have questions of halacha don't care which stationary their rav uses to send a letter. If they need a beis din there are plenty in New York. If their issue is that they want to eat in restaurants I am sure that economic realities will determine whose hechsher the store owner will buy.
TA
In Cali his power is only over those who have tangible things to lose. He could care less what a shliach does in his mosad. Not mechitzas, not goyim in his schools, geirus etc. Keep a low profile and have no assets and all is kosher.
Ooops forgot one other sheild, way more important, SUBMISSION!
Can someone give a bio of Rabbi Osdoba?
Apparently he is a 'convert' to Lubavitch, not from Gezhe,similar to Rabbi Marlow, who was born in Germany,and went to Lubavitch school as a child
Commenting by HaloScan
