if the Meshalach would have under term limitation ?
Anonymous | 06.28.06 - 8:26 am | #

Great Idea. Should include restesting for smicha too. Use it or loose it is a rasonable principal.
pmh | 06.28.06 - 10:58 am | #

Thanks Tzemach - Shchora Ani Vena'ava.

(Neo-Tzig as in Neo-Conservative)
Neo-Tzig | Homepage | 06.28.06 - 11:47 am | #

agreed - about the term limit for the tzig, we as readers have as much right to dictate to him how much longer he may continue writing as do people in a town deciding whether their local shliach can call himself a shliach or continue living in their town.
mendelbomb | Homepage | 06.28.06 - 4:53 pm | #

Term limits, smerm limits. This is not the real question! Here is the real question.
When a sholiach is alone, he is a noun; when they are many, they suddenly convert into adjectives and become sheluchim! What is even more disturbing - I can’t explain this phenomenon. Let me clarify:
שליח (sholiach) – an emissary, a messenger (noun, singular)*
שלוח (sholuach) – a sent one (adjective**, singular)
שליחים (shelichim) – emissaries, messengers (noun, plural)
שלוחים (sheluchim) – sent ones (adjective, plural)

And don't even start me on שלוחה .
Why is she an adjective even when she is alone? Huh?

* In case anyone was wondering, this is also the difference between משיח (noun without English equivalent) and משוח (anointed one - adjective). Same goes for אסיר (prisoner - noun) and אסור (arrested one - adjective).
** For pedants – by 'adjective' I mean what’s known as בינוני פעול .
_
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 7:58 pm | #

Interesting.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 06.28.06 - 8:44 pm | #

שלוח in singular has a negative connotation as in Rashi Genesis 8:8, אין זה לשון שליחות אלא לשון שלוח. in plural, however, there is no negative association. ;)
faruq | 06.28.06 - 9:57 pm | #

faruq,
not exactly. שילוח is from בנין פיעל and the connonation is "sending off" (in a permanent way - אוועקשיקען ) vs. sending ( שיקען ). In other words, it is not an issue of plural vs. singular but פעל vs פיעל .
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:13 pm | #

in other words, do not confuse shilluach with sholuach.
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:15 pm | #

But here is a possible thought על דרך הצחות
Term limits can apply to sheluchim in general since בינוני פעול is, at least in some measure, connected with time (albeit in a constant way). But each individual sholiach is comletely timeless (being a noun) and thus not subject to term limits.
Lemaaseh: you can talk about term limits for sheluchim, but you can't actually subject any specific sholiach to term limits. :)
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:27 pm | #

But here is a possible thought על דרך הצחות
Term limits can apply to sheluchim in general since בינוני פעול is, at least in some measure, connected with time (albeit in a constant way). But each individual sholiach is comletely timeless (being a noun) and thus not subject to term limits.
Lemaaseh: you can talk about term limits for sheluchim, but you can't actually subject any specific sholiach to term limits. :)
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:27 pm | #

עס איז ג' תמוז אף דער וועלט ...
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:35 pm | #

berl, it is an issue of acceptable לשונות in מקרא andחז״ל
שליח is used in חז״ל. but not שליחים.
faruq | 06.28.06 - 10:39 pm | #

for some reason I can't publish hebrew on the blog
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 06.28.06 - 10:42 pm | #

also, what is an alternative to שלוחה?
faruq | 06.28.06 - 10:42 pm | #

faruq, you are correct about customary usage, but הא גופא קשיא

ta, it makes no sense. Why would it not support Hebrew? Page encoding? Preferences in blog template? I don't know - but it make no sense for it not to support Hebrew.
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:51 pm | #

also, what is an alternative to שלוחה?
שליחה
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 10:52 pm | #

שליח as used in חז״ל is a legal term connected to and derived form the aspect of "שליחות." it is either an aramaic form or a made up rabbinic to firmly attach it to the legal aspect it is derived from. for plural, when it is not used as a legal term, normal hebrew form is used.
faruq | 06.28.06 - 10:58 pm | #

שליחה, there is no such a word!
faruq | 06.28.06 - 10:58 pm | #

faruq, they are both 'normative Hebrew'. But as I said before, one is a noun, the other - an adjective.
berl, crown heights | 06.28.06 - 11:00 pm | #

give me an example of "שליחה" in classical hebrew texts. also, give me a "שליח" in biblical text.
faruq | 06.28.06 - 11:03 pm | #

i suspect (as always i know nothing for sure) that there is no hebrew word "sholich." my quick search gives me "sh'liach" in the Bible twice, both in aramaic texts.
faruq | 06.28.06 - 11:06 pm | #

12 years. Insane. Who are we mourning? the Rebbe or ourself?
K. Tuchus | 06.28.06 - 11:49 pm | #

Isn't all mourning about what WE have lost?
Boruch der ayzel | 06.29.06 - 12:51 am | #

faruq, I meant no disrespect but I really had to run before... we can pick this up some other time. Bekiztur - in my comments I am wondering WHY things are as they are, not questioning WHAT the accepted usage is. 'Normative Hebrew' was a reference to the construct, not common usage. The usage is, in fact, sholiach - sheluchim.
berl, crown heights | 06.29.06 - 12:54 am | #

Is any one aware of a Sicha having to do with the Peace Corps. As I remember it the Rebbe spoke about how then President J.F.K. asked young people to leave their homes etc. to help others and that this should be emulated by his chassidim.

My point is that if the Peace Corps is the model for shlichus and to the best of my knowledge the corps is not a lifetime commitment we may have a basis for the neo tzig's idea.
Sidney | 06.29.06 - 2:05 am | #

sidney, look this up under mormons. Mormons kodmu leJFK.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 06.29.06 - 2:15 am | #

Neo-Tzig is a moron.
I'm not going to dignify his blog with any comments.I'm sorry I jumpstarted the Tzig himselfs' blog, which was on cpr not long ago.He projects his own hate on others.Everyone is a 'hater'.Boring and infantile.
uknowhu | 06.29.06 - 2:42 am | #

Why not have recall elections for rebbes ?
Why would anyone fund raise with all his heart and soul if he could not pass the gashmiusdike object to his children.
Thats the reason most Orthodox institutions are run acording to family lines, rather than a corporate manner.
Only YU, Tora vedaas, Chaim Berlin and a few others are run along corporate lines. Most other impt yeshivos are family run like MIr, Telz,Lakewood,MTJ,Tora Tmimmah, Philly, Ner Israel etc. So why should Lubavitch be different ?
AWM | 06.29.06 - 10:20 am | #

"So why should Lubavitch be different?"
Because people are waking up to the fact that nepotism breeds unprofessional services and realizing that fundraising and financing of these family business is dishonest, and should stop.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 06.29.06 - 12:43 pm | #

Simple:

The Rebbe never gave shluchim time limits who are we to start....Although on the subject of creating terms, i'd fire g-d in an instant......what a mess up hes' done.
Lost | 07.01.06 - 11:41 pm | #