mentalblog.com comments:
This all goes under the post "Who's afraid of human-to-human intimacy?" Wild hispashtus is not a true, intimate relationship. There's a reason that yesod comes before malchus. If you have no connection to someone, you cannot be mashpia to them.
But do not say "daylo Chabad." Chabad is using mochin to control ones emotions so that one can relate intensely with another Jew. Unfortunately, due to our loneliness and desperation for contact, we confuse intensity with being frenetic.
A chosid is a "lev rochov" - one who has a wide capacity for intense emotions. But in America we confuse having intense emotIONS with being emotIVE. One who is emotive is effusive precisely because he has no place for intense emotions. His emotions never mature, they just come spraying forth in shallow ways.
TM,
That's all very true from the perspective of da'as tachton.
Let the whole world go to hell, Chakira is reading in the friggin' NYU Library for crying out loud!
To chakira:
Hey a** h***, it does not take much courage to say 'f*** you' to a yeshiva bochur. Why don't you say 'f*** you” to the next burly African-American blasting his brand of music from a big black shiny SUV? (I would love to be there)
And Tony, what a pathetic apologetic moron you are turning into!
Just think - a bunch of young and idealistic bachurim spend their own time-off to enable other Jews to be mekayem mitzvas lulov and some sniveling shit-head spews his bile in their direction supposedly because his ability to enjoy 'verdant beauty' was disturbed (mind you this is happening in Manhattan!) And all you have to say in response is more 'intimate relationship' crap. “Frenetic” my a**!
“Daloy” all Jewish Anti-Semites!
I am not the only one reading in the library.
And Berl, the black people have much better taste in music than the yeshiva bochurim.
moadim lesimcha
berl, take a 'lude, man.
I am not talking about Chakira's winy post. Personally, I bet those bocherim were pretty geuine in what they were doing. I was only responding to Tzemach's comment telling him that I can relate to the general feeling.
I know that Tzemach is struggling with this issue and I think it is one that is pertinent to us all. You are an overly-intellectual, kalter, berl, who is hopelessly afraid of your emotions. Just because you don't have these issues, doesn't mean that they are no relevant.
this message is for chakira: FUCK YOU! kenst gayn tzu sheis. chabad will still be bringing yidden closer to yiddishkeit long after you are forgotten. this next message is for the adas ha'chsidim: darfst nisht farentferin. gut mei'ed.
Somethings are black and white-- the guy cursed out a bachur on mivtzoyim, for disturbing his intake of the verdant beauty of the park. Give me a break. That's just wrong- even a staunch misnaged would agree. Don't be so open-minded that your head falls out.
When you hate someone, you begin to hate everything about them, including routine things, even the way they walk in the street. On the other hand, a personal gripe based on ideological differences usually expresses itself in more mochin'diker manner than Chakira an TA. Which is more offfensive-- an unbridled mivtzoyim campaign, or unwavering hatred toward Chabad?
Tony,
My issue was not with the content of your comment per se, but rather with your choice of micro-venue (this post). Surely you understand that juxtaposition is part of the message. At the very least, you should have made it clear that your comment was not a response to Chakira (and that was not at all clear to this 'intellectual'). You could also choose to discuss 'legitimate issues' with TA in his other posts, but not where he makes a whole-sale endorsement of Chakira's droppings, peppered with a 'daloy chabad' oath. That ain't 'legitimate'.
I didnt say "fuck you" to the bochurim. That would be uncouth, even more so than posting the sentiments on a blog. Still, I was offended at this unbridled display of religion in the public sphere. For some reason, and it is not hatred of Habad, such displays disturb me very much.
berl, my very presence on this blog could be seen as an endorsement of statements I find loathesome. Maybe I shouldn't comment at all on any post.
The truth is, when I read this blog, I am trying to tune in with TA's feelings and when I post, I am trying to respond to them. TA is a fascinating person. I have many mixed feelings about him. But I feel like he is someone worthy of connecting to. You, berl, on the other hand, I don't feel connected to at all. Your intellect impresses me, but I think you're emotionally shallow. Then again, there must be something to you. You also follow this blog religiously, and I can hardly chalk it all up to pure intellectual curiosity.
"... could be seen as an endorsement of statements I find loathesome..."
not my point at all.
Ah. okay. I think I got your point now. "juxtaposition is part of the message" True.
All the obnoxious Lubabs come out of their dark,dank smelly holes to defend their 'faith'
Thanks Chakirah for voicing aloud my thoughts.Similar thoughts passed through my head, especially upon visiting the Simchas beis hashoeivo in Crown Heights.What was supposedly the fringe element namely The Meshichists have turned out to be the mainstreem.While once upon a time there were to celebrations, the so called 'sane' amnd the meshchist it is not one large Meshichist 'meshugga' fest,with THE 'SANE' Shemtov brother of the 'big anti' as MC.When I was there two nights ago at about 1 a.m it was non stop meshichist/Rebbi shlit'a songs.So much for the 'normal' Lubavitch
Tony, I haven't really psychoanalyzed my underlying motivations for following this blog (and I suspect they changed somewhat over time). But one thing for sure - it is the emotional outbursts here that send me packing from time to time.
Btw, it does not at all disturb my peace to know that you and TA find this emotional wallowing meaningful - I know people are different and I (believe it or not!) do not spend time singing ‘why can’t TM be more like berl’. You really delude yourself if you believe that I am on a crusade to stop your 'intimate dance'. My problem during the last exchange on this topic was with your reasoning, not with your expression of emotions. To be more precise – when I am bothered by emotional exhibitionism, I just leave; I do not get into a heated debate.
Hey 'big defender of the faith' Berl,
You seem to know to many curse words for the 'eideleh chasidishe yingerman' you want us to believe you are.
I know, it has been raining heavily in New York and according to the Lubavitch 'faith' one must partake of meals even in such downpours in the sukkah.So you are:Wet, cold and miserable.Still a 'chasidishe yingerman' like you, cursing??
gevalir,
I love language and I believe that all people should be accorded the minimal respect of being spoken to in a language they best understand.
Gevalir,
This is not a theology issue. I do not care who these people think the Messiah is. I just want a secular public sphere, and a quieter one too.
Dear Chakira,
When I was in Beit Shemesh Toldos Aharon was more known for burning Israeli flags than their "modesty". I also saw them several times setting up barricades of cinder block and and other hazardus materials in the middle of the road on shabbos (you would think that would be assur on shabbos) with a blatant disregard for public safety. They were also really into screaming at any car that passed by, even police cars.
I do not mind antiZionists. I am more mild in my critique of Zionism than Toldos Aharon, and I deplore their sometimes bellicose rhetoric. But I think this post was about Habad, and the modesty I refered to was the no pictures, no publicity thing. I do not like the highly loud, highly public and highly irrational imposition of religion on what should be the neutral space of the agora.
kisses
Josh
Guys, Chakira has a great blog.Be forewarned that he really hates blackhatters and is an apologist for the Y.U. Modern Orthodox segment.
That being said it is honestly an intellectually stimulating, cynical and lomdisheh blog.I love it.
oh,
you should see chabad here, apart from their mobile sukke, they have young kids being trained at being obnoxious and asking all and sundry if they are jewish. of course if they are, they have a lulov und esrog handy to shake, shake shake.
some feathers get ruffled, when they turn to frum people wearing a velvet yarmulke "sans yechi" and pop inquisitive questions as to their identity!
If typing in capitals is cyber-analogous to shouting, is posting incoherent, grammatically incorrect and shrill screeds, (not to mention consistently mis-spelled) analogous to frothing at the mouth? As Sir Winston, my good friend and fellow defender of western civilization was wont to observe; A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
The buck stops here.
and buck you too.
Doloy Tzemach and Chakira. What chutzpah from the two of you.
Tzemach, i have hard time believing you are serious. "Murderous deeds sugarcoated with syllables." you've gone mad! you are doing the very same thing the jewish machers are guilty of: you are inflating emotions beyond all reason. it ain't worth it.
unrelated observation: today at mincha in midtown manhattan i overheard two jews making fun of chabad mivtzoim after having eaten their lunch in a chabad sukah erected for this very purpose! :lol:
berl, why are you such a moron? Can't you see there are 2 sides to this dilema?
arent businessmen patur min hasukkah?
someone has said here that chakira hosts a "lomdisheh" blog?
i deny that
i dont host any blog
Chakira, you could be a Jew during Chol HaMoed even if you are a Greek the rest of the year... If those fellows were Budhist monks banging their drums would it bother you to the same degree? If those Lubies were really so loud why you didn't go out and tell them to turn down their music? Or just get used to the fact that NY is a loud place where each sect blasts its salvation out to the crowd.
Mr. Hakira,
Any Heresh, Shotah and Kattan are exempt from the Sukkah. From your posted comments I deduce that you are all three.
berl, gut gezuged!
I dont like Buddhists, esp the Tibetan ones. I am happy that the PRC destroyed the oppresive regime of the Dalai Lama, and I hope that their religious dictatorship suffers further setbacks.
Juxtaposition
I was writing a post consisting of the last sentence only and with the same title. Then that very moment I saw chakiras comment. This was the same theme, he “got lucky” and this went with the post. Truth is chakira is brainiak who is know for his mean outbursts, this was one of them, but it still has its place in our lives under this sun.
I stand by my words though.
Tzemach,
Chakira is the show and it is most definitely theater of the absurd. This current flurry postings is beginning to feel like Satre's No Exit.
Truman, make room for people. Do not run to kluger vertlach.
You prefer the PRC over a bunch of Buddist? Can I assume that any time the PRC persecutes any of their minorities let it be Muslims, Christians or Buddist you clap you hands and smile that they 'separate state and religion'?
K tuchos,
The Dalai Lama ran a religious dictatorship. The PRC liberated Tibet.
:/ chakira, you are nuts
Hey, Chakira, here's freedom of religion in "liberated" Tibet fer ya!
As TA would say; "Moron!"
Most students choose to go to NYU , BECAUSE of its urban setting. They are fully aware WHERE NYU is located and where Bobst is.
By now living in big cities is associated with all sorts of noise indeed robust noise ! mostly coming from music, traffic etc.
I was a student at NYU in the 1970's and I can not recall being bothered by noise at the Bobst library.I can recall being bothered by my Yetzer Hore at Bobst.
Clearly my dear friend Chakira heard some noise , which was Jewish noise and that bugged him. The general plethora of noise coming from that great landmark of western civilization called Washington Square park did not bother him.
But its a "davar beito", like the prophet Jonah running from his G-D, our student is also running from His G-D and in Tarshish , his G-D found him and unlike Jonah, our student resents being discovered in his makom miklot reading the great philosophers and thinkers .
I too am no great fan of "Chabad in the Street" activities. But its a free country and Chabad has has much right as others to tummel and make noise.
In the process I am certain they have aided many jews in discovering their Jewish identity and engaging their Judaism. Certainly they have turned afew Jews off too.And of course angered many Orthodox Jews like Chakira and myself.
The Rav is supposed to have said that the acheivement of Chabd in the US was that it brough t Judaism into the streets...
To my friend Chakira , relax and enjoy the Chabad people they are no threat to us, unless we engage them and the correct policy is to wave and go on with business.
May I conclude that I was impressed by the fact of a group of Chabad teens walking from CH to WH on Yontov, even if misguided it taked dedication to do that .
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