mentalblog.com comments:
Gut Gezogt Schneur.
What are "real Yidden with any real mesoroth in levush"?
And why no longer?
When was the mesora lost?
And furthermore:
Must it be that their piety is superficial? Is it not possible that pious people can also wear traditional garb? Or do you think they are all fakers and the only real pious people are the ones who appear to dress in modern gear (but on the inside are really pure). That sounds fancifully romantic.
Shneur's comment is to the point.
What a collection!
An assafssuf (populace) rather than o-sef (collection).
Kol oreyv lemino areyv!
Exactly Schneur. These characters are playing with traditional costumes like soldiers from a Civil war reenactment or like lederhosen wearers at a Bavarian beer festival. Darwin; our empiricists have noted a poor correlation between traditional garb and piety. The "fanciful romance" is your implication that Judaism is a fashion statement rather than a system of revealing Elokus.
shneur: ha'milim shelcha, m'sukim m'dvash. i personally know many of these chevra and know them to be vildeh pustyaken who would also shecht their neighbor for food.
on the other hand some of them are good yidden who like to were dirty hippy clothes
the baal shem tov's torah on judging another (which i saw first quoted in likkutei moharan, but then subsequently in the maor eynayim and iirc the notzer hesed) comes to mind whenever i try and think of a way to phrase a constructive comment in this discussion.. (i think the most abbreviated form is: kol ha posel b'mumo posel.)
Tzemach, Thanx for organizing the farbrengen last night. I had a really nice time, and for all of those made it, it was a pleasure meeting you all.
Yitz;s comments should be printd in the JP or the Yated and the like and directed to the Charedi community , where making the serious mistake of wearing brown shoes on Shabbes can cost you your olam Haba and mor importantly the Olam haze "they" promise you.
Wearing a blue shirt can finish you off.
Don't judge the clothing by the person.
I actually know one of the boys from this picture series.
When I met him, he had just cut his hair, leaving the long peyos, and had donned the Breslov garb. Though it was very difficult for him, he had found an eclectic support group in the teens and various rabbis of Jerusalem. Walking down the narrow streets of Ben Yehuda amongst the regular 3:00 am crowd, hands and arms would fly out to pat him on the back in congratulations for making the "big jump". Cutting the hair and putting on the clothes is the final inauguration ceremony; the Mark of the Dati. There is a deep respect for the "turnover". A quick conversation with the 3:00 a.m.er's will reveal that they too will don the garb at one point in their life, whatever it may be.
There is another dimension:
Jews wanting to become frum and change their lives (ring a bell?) try to differentiate themselves by a new uniform. They identify themselves with other Jews by dressing like them. This is a problem?
Costumes? Do you wear your team shirt and cap when you go to the ballgame? Why? Are you “pretending” to be a fan? When in business, there are books and articles and career coaches who tell you what to wear. Here is one example:
“So, is it "anything goes" today? As in the past, your appearance on the job is a mirror that reflects your personal style in the context of the office culture and the nature of your job. What you wear continues to say a lot about your work. So think about your company, your teammates, clients, management, and your position when reaching into your closet, and you'll always come out a winner.” - Regina M. Robo, News Editor, Salary. Com
I don’t know what Shneur has against those who feel they want to identify with a “team” of those committed to a way of life. The Yerushalmi garb is a very time-honored one – in fact, one of the rabbonim who came from Europe refused to enter the land before putting on Yerushalmi garb, for that was Minhag Hamakom. As for the kids who find happiness in Breslov along with the garb – would your rather them tattooing themselves up to kazoo, wearing a Mohawk and multiple piercing and spending their lives snorting cocaine? What is wrong for them to find joy in bouncing around, singing and dancing, with streaming payos making their statement?
Ah, because that doesn’t fit your fashion taste buds? A shame, my friend, on you, not to be proud of long payos, what the Yemenites refer to as “simanim” the proud signs of a proud Jew.
Reb Aizik Homler once overheard a Jew making fun of long פאות . Reb Aizik exclaimed:
ריבנו של עולם, נעם מיך אוועק פון אזא וועלט וואו אפילו די אידען לאכען שיין אף פון דיינע הייליגע מצות
!
Do you wear your team shirt and cap when you go to the ballgame? Why? Are you “pretending” to be a fan?
the analogy is somewhat incomplete, grose.
those who wear the shirt to the ball game, are rooting for the particular team they identify with. no doubt about it.
in the case of religion however, some of the faces we know in the holy city and elsewhere, while they could be very sincere, do not come across yet as those they want to be.
frumdom, if u will, is more demanding by nature. either u wear the whole costume (including the proper facial expression) or one still has a long way to go.
looking carlibach is simple, anything goes. all those dressed carlibach in fact do come across as sincere somewhat frum flower children. nothing wrong with that in itself.
looking toldos aharon however is another story. not one of them -of the t.a's- is seen in the photos as smiling. they are busy having serious beit hashoeva fun; but that is done "becherdat qodesh".
none of the costumed bt's comes across with that charada.
everything you say about behaving breslov b.t. is superior anytime to tarbut raah. at the same time, and that's very unfortunate, many still maintain in yerushalayim the use of sammim.
in fact, i was once asked by a BT, what do i (jath) have against drugs? does it not say that hashem told moshe, qach lekha sammim?! he was not joking. there he had a carte blanche from the siddur, the way he chose to understand the scripture.
I don't know about you, but clothing can change my moods and demeanor. Did you ever see little girls dressed in tafetta dresses? They walk different, swish their skirts and you can tell they have a sense of prettiness? Putting on the Levush makes a person strive to that "charada" or that "simcha" or whatever it might be. So if a kid who is searching puts on a "uniform" and is not there yet, I'm not worried - it is a step to getting there.
i'm just curious to know how these chevreh pick and choose wich levush to wear. if you want to be one of the breslover chsidim than dress like them to. yes, these chevre have the payes, but how many chsidei breslov "fun di heim", do you see wearing khakis and sandalim and yarmulkehs with na nach noch dertzu? you see, this is bologna....punkt the payes they decided to keep.....nu nu
there is a reason why "punkt the payes" as any Breslover worth his payos knows. The reason is quite simple. If he ends up in Gehinnom for any reason, he will be hauled up by his payos by Rabbi Nachman, according to one of Rabbi Nachman's reassurances. Hence, if you think you might be in the lower bowels of hell, you grow extra long payos.
A caterpillar wraps itself up in a cocoon as it undergoes its transformation into a beautiful butterfly. Hence you don't see the ugly parts of the transformation. IN fact, in this week's Parsha, Adam was put to sleep while Chava was fashioned, so he did not see that transformation process. When I cook, I warn everyone to clear the kitchen so no one says, "EEEYU, I saw what grose put into that pot and boy was it gross." However, people don't have that option of hiding in a cave as they grow and change into something deeper, more real and more beautiful. Therefore, spectators might say EEEYU watching the process unfold. Yah, settled down Breslovers "settle in" to a more intergrated lifestyle. However, don't knock these kids as they go through the transformative process.
a post script to my last post:
This Rosh Hashana in Uman found Rav Katz, Rosh Yeshiva of Mishkanos Avir Yaakov of Monsey (and a son-in-law of the Tosher Rebbe) davening with everyone there as he does every year (he is a Breslover Chasid and has been for many years). He was due to leave the day after Rosh Hashana and went to daven Shacharis before getting on a plane home. He was set to leave early...but..as he told his rebbetzin, as he was there a man walked in with long, long hair and started rolling up his sleeves. Rav Katz saw tattooes covering too much of this guys' skin canvas. The tattooed guy puts on Tefillin goes against the wall and begins to daven, but "ah zah davening", with Kavanah "ain sof". Rabbi Katz stood there for three hours transfixed. He said, what a zisse nation we are, that we have a man like that turning to Hashem with such Kavannah, turning back to His Father, that Moshiach is already here if this is the case.
Perhaps, all you sour-spirited folks finding faults in these pictures, should go sit at the feet of Rav Katz and soak up his outlook on the Matzav of our nation, how great it is when kids like this are reconnecting and spending three hours talking to their Creator.
(I must say that any Breslover worth his peyos should probably also know that he wasn’t necessarily talking about physical peyos...)
hear hear
grose, there is no sour spirit, and no faults finding chalila. just pointing the difference.
i consider myself a bt; i am quite familiar with the directions and intensity of drifting out.
i enjoyed your story of r' katz. in fact, this past yom kippur, i found myself on a bet midrash type table, sitting facing a worshiper with tatoo and a little earing.
he sat there, prayed quietly with much kavana, the whole day with no shmoozing and no interruption of any sort.
there is somthing that one must realize, one who is born in to a certain life style -which ever one it may be, chabad, breslov etc.- the clothing is lot deeper than an external uniform, it's part of the person and his identidy. it is somthing that they will almost never change so when one of these BT's who he himself can barely identify himself,come on it's a joke to see him wearing a levush. who knows what will turn him on tomorrow?
So whats the end of the Rav Katz story in UMAN , did he call a shadchan after Yom Tov and arrange for a shidduch with his daughter or granddaughter with this guy. Perhaps the Tasher rebbe would be zayche to have another Zaddik in his family of Zaddikim ?
Such a tachshit would be a shame not to find a place fro in the Royal family. NO ?
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