mentalblog.com comments:
something in this story makes no sense. I was lead to believe that there were photos, not a manuscript. I was also under impression that this felllow in Williamsburg still has it. I am confused.
im all for the human aspect in a story, which is why i have some trouble relating to the facts regarding the rebbitzins cooperation.
women typicaly, will side with their husband in quarrels regarding inheritances and the like, which is why it would would be prefferable that mr. cohen stick with facts known to him rather than conjecture.
what mr. cohen fails completely to comprehend is that the victory of didan notzach was an ideological one, having little to do with barry gourary per se. thus, any personal settelment that barry would have had with his uncle, the rebbe as a result of a private family quarrel is totaly irrelevant and of no consequence. the sad human aspect of the story goes back much longer than anyone today can remember and quite frankly is no ones business.
sto pratzent, what are you smoking?
this is a dead end argument:
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/0...of-
looking.html
what im saying is that cohen may or may not know what hes talking about but 1. he makes his own assumptions which leads us to 2. he has absolutely no concept of what the "victory" was at the time and how it is still regarded today. therefore his Last Laugh comment -indeed his whole approach is entirely off the mark.
Sto, the meaning you are referring to is Shemtov Krinsky spin. Can I trust them more than I trust Yakov Shimon?
Points 1 and 3 are entirely plausible. Point 2 is the most retarded conjecture ever typed by a human.
As to point 3, even if all of that is true, Chabad would still consider itself the winner given the other implications the Rebbe saw in this mess.
Avoiding the spin or attempt at spin:
1. Either happenned or didn't. Prove it.
2. By testimony of those in the house all the time, the Rebbetzin stopped taking her sister's phone calls immediately after the theft was revealed. When the Rebbetzin was deposed on tape, her sister came to watch her suffer, and is visible on the tape - the Rebbetzin neither speaks with her, acknowledges her or looks at her.
3. A matter of opinion.
Would you any of you people accept the testimony of a man who clearly attempted murder? I think not. Yaakov Shimon organized the murder of Mendel Vechter, he left him for dead. I doubt he can be trusted about even what he had for supper.
If Barry was a half decent guy I doubt he'd go to a young schnook like him for "protection." Cohen's fantasies about threatening the Rebbe must turn him on, and he's been beating that drum for a while now, but are nothing more than childish fantasies. I wish you'd have more feasable and credible testimony, TA, but there is none. Even Schneur would agree to that.
Yaakov Shimon Cohen is one of the multiple personalities of Ahron Cohen of Manchester. He keeps one personality in Williamsburgh and one in Manchester, and from time to time the 2 meet in Teheran.
In reality, both personalities are said to be controlled by Moshe Hirsch in Yerushalayim, but since Hirsch has Alzheimers he sent the wrong one to Teheran. Tzemach BTW is controlled by the Williamsburgh personality but he just does not realize it.
and if you believe this, you'll believe this Cohen's version of events.
guravitzer, i don't want to talk about this but your statement that "Rebbetzin stopped taking her sister's phone calls immediately after the theft was revealed." Is untrue.
There is the famous court testimony where the Rebbetzin said that she took a call from her sister on Shabbos (they minght have had a code or something or not) when Chana was bitten. So stop making up shit if you do not know what you are talking about. This is how lies are spread. Rebbetzin said it in court during her testimony!
this is another example of exactly what was written here. Do not comment on this thread, you are nogea be dovor.
I heard and saw the testimony and she said no such thing. Where does this story originate from?
do your own homework. enough. it is published in the docket. Quoted in at least two books that I saw.
Seforim is to Hey Teiveis what Matza is to Pesach. Matza commemorates an important aspect of the exodus - zman cheirusainu. Three types: 1. Lechem oni; 2. Matza hane'echal bepesach mitzrayim "lifney chatzos"; 3. oogos maatzos ki lo asu tzeida. But pesach is to remember the freedom after 210 years of slavery. Hey teiveis: the recognition that Lubavitch continued and grew after 1950 (al apam ve'al chamasam of all the sonim (mibefnim - Barry vekt didhu, mebachutz - Satmar etc)). It was expressed through books (but it was a referendum on the Rebbe's leadership.
There was a final settelment which prohibited Barry from writing a book. He got his father's (and mother's) personal effects and medical expenses. No big money. That's just a lie from a malcontented loser. The last 11 books which Barry took from the Frierdikeh Rebbe's desk came back then, too.
Didan Notzach!!!
shameful holiday.
can you please post a link to the orig blog post that the reply from Yaakov Shimon Cohen refers to? thanks
TA, Chana was beaten up, bloody and needed medical attention, you expect the Rebetzen to hang up. Before the case started they spoke every night.
Der Yid, did they report to Mazkirus every time they spoke? Idiot!
Hopefully this year I will not forget to eat Matzo on Pesach, but rabeysai, I forgot about the greatest Yuma D"pagra in Jewish history .(Fortunetely I still learn and read books Baruch Hashem)
Is there a tikkun for this act ?
I have little interest in dregging up the whole story of the War launched against Hilchos Yerusha in the Shulchan Aruch by the leading rebbe of our generation. Of course the issue was paskened by the posek achron of our generation the Chadban of the famed galach Reinhold Neihbuhr hagaon hazaddik R. Sifton shlit'a .Und azey blaibt di halacha !
I have not read the original posting about Heh teves,(I do recall hearing on a hot line R. Avreml Szemtow calling the eynikel of the Rayaatz the Samech mem.) , but I just read Mr. Cohen's posting through his mazkiruth.Does Mr. Cohen;s driver and mazkir have a valid operators permit ?
In those years I spoke to Reb Bere almost every week , sometimes more than that.
Let me note the following :
1. Cohen represents not himself but a large and wealthy community in Brooklyn in an unofficial capacity. I think Barry sought not only physical protection (from Lubavitch that is in itself meyredik !) but financial support for expensive legal fees. I am in believe that he received both from those circles.Barry and his mother visited the late Satmarer ruv and the Munkatcher rebbe seeking such help.
2 The memoirs that Reb Bere read to me have little of a nuclear nature in them.Perhaps Barry had other writings , maybe not. As far as picturs go I am sure there are family photos depicting the rebbe dressed in the manner of the 1930's and being a husband and a uncle.
Even the zoo picture in Berlin is innocent enough .
Yes there are pictures of the last Rebbetzin in clothing not appropriate for a Chassdic rebebtzin, but thats hardly a shock .So I do not know what yeddidi Mr. Cohen is refering to.
In an interview with the Israeli daily CHADASHOT at that time , Barry did launch a nuclear tipped missile at the rebbe. But probably few people read that story. It was written by Mr. Benny Avni.
As I mentioned I spoke to R. Bere regularly about many matters. As the case was winding down he became very happy as the suggested settlement was very favorable (beoffen Gashmi) to Barry.By the way the Nasi haDor charged Barry with being interested only in material things , a charge he was correct with.) And when the case was settled in what Israelis call an "Iskat chavillah" , Barry was thrilled and told me he got more than he expected . It was clearly a multi milion dollar settlement. I do not know the details and I doubt few people know unless Aguch broke the court rules for a wall of silence.
In the first edition of the New York Times on the day they had the detailed story of the case with a picture of R. Gourary, it qouted Reb Mussya that she told Barry to take the books as they were infested and rotting. The 2nd edition that day removed that sentence.It is crazy to believe that the 2 sisters were not vr close until "shalom Bayis "issues on the home front necesitated a change in outlook.
We forget that the main players in this family drama were 2 men in their late 80s and 2 women of the same age. Both were either childless or living away from their one child. This makes manipulation, pressure and brain washing very easy and this was done on both sides.
My suggestion is that Lubavitch forget about this very sad chapter of Chabad history.
Megillat Taanis ifs full of holidays we no longer commemorate. For example Chof Sivan a really aserious day is hardly marked.
So lets relagate Heh Teves to the history books . Of course lets continue the half price sale at 770 Kehot as a zekher ledavar in commemoration of oso zaddik the Honorable Judge Charles Sifton.
Chadban?
Chasana D'Bei Nesia
(Son in Law of the Leader)
TA, your right! After the case started, the Rebetzen only spoke to Chana from a hidden phone in the basement or at some late hour.
after the case started, the rebezten refused to take her sisters phone calls.
are you trying to say that was only in public?
DELETED vile bastard
Edited By Siteowner
TA,
Tell me please, seriousley, what was so vile and or incorrect, that you a)deleted the comment and b) basically called me a "vile bastard". Come on, lets be intellectually honest.
I don't mind if you delete this comment, and just post the answer.
argue the case, provide sources, do not make references to some letters or events that nobody seen, this is innuendo. Finally do not demean your opponent. Do not conclude by saying that Barry was all about money. This is vile simplification. In addition this is not the first time you post shit and I remember.
Schneur,
I have a questions.
1. Under hilchos yerusha as long as Chana was alive barry had no claim at all, true?
2. In Sifton's desicion he relies heavily on a paper signed by Rebbetzins ND CM and C in the closing of the probabte of the FR's estate. IN that paper they all signed that they received all that belonged to them and there were no matter assets on the estate to whcih they had a claim. Being the Barry's claim of yerusha only comes through his mother and she sais she already received everything she was entitled to what is Barry claim under hilchos yerusha?
I am not familiar with the probate documents. I am familiar with the will of Rebbetzin Nechoma Dina leaving the books, seforim , kesovim etc to her 2 daughters and only grandson.
Let me ask a question isn't a chasid someone who acts Lifnim meshuras hadin ?
Lets posit that Barry had no legal rights to anything , but wanted some money. Given the fact that HE was the sole survivore of the 5th and 6th rebbes, and given the fact that the 7th rebbe had acsess to large amounts of money, would not civilized people (not to speak of a Chasid or a rebbe of Chasidim) worked out a peshorah- compromise settlement..
Why did the rebbe demand DIN ?Where is the midas Horachamim that marked the rebbe's relationahip with all manners of secular Jews ? But when it cam to the only male heir of his own father in law it was complete Midas hadin
.Why ?
The Rebbe said publicly that if he wanted money he would have given him (and still would give him) money. But it was below his dignity to ask (or even inform the Rebbe be'akifin that there is a need and money would have gotten to him)!!!
[He felt that this (book taking/stealing) was a legitimate way of making money... keganav balayla...] BTW, today is his Grandmother's yahrtzeit, veyehafech yamim eillu lesason ulesimcha veha'emes ve'hashalom ehavu!
Heh teves is over the players are gone.
The important issue is the future of Lubavitch as a spiritual group, not as an organization. If steps are not taken to install a serious religious leadership , Chabad will resemble the KC and the Bergs in 1 generation.
I suggest all good men in chabad band together and forget about their anochius and demand action to save the religious integrity of Lubavitch.
Schnuer, indeed they have. They have resolved to ignore you in order to save the religious integrity of Lubavitch.
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