The blog posts make some interesting points, but I suggest that you take off the film from your site. Executions even if necessary should be a private affair. There is a certain dignity that should be allowed the criminal based on the fact that he was also created in Tzelem Elokim. When executions are public it usually indicates a dirty propaganda machine. The regimes that come at the heel of executed dictators often have their own very dirty laundry and don't live up to the expectation of the ecstatic messes. I understand the exhilaration that the Kurds feel at this moment, but there is no reason to get a thrill out of watching another being hanged. Was there a flick made of Eichman's execution? I think not and for a good reason.
kushen t. | 12.31.06 - 12:24 am | #

kushen, You missed the point in the rush of judgmental rhetoric. Just because some regimes have performed public executions does not mean that this is a propaganda event. This video appears to be amateur and voyeuristic. It is my impression that main vengeance seekers have been the Shiites not the Kurds. The "certain dignity" is tzelem elokim is to not leave the body hanging overnight. If low cost videos have been been available at when Eichman was executed, the photographic evidence may have been useful to deter future anti-Semites.
Snagdisz | 12.31.06 - 3:43 am | #

When does the peoples right to know become propaganda.
Truman | 12.31.06 - 11:23 am | #

at the same time they enacted peoples right not to know.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 12.31.06 - 11:28 am | #

Of interest is that Saddam’s party was secular socialist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baath_Party
He was also a secular ruler but he died with Muhammad on lips. I am noticing the general pan-Arab religious revival. The socialist ideas no longer in the Arab world.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 12.31.06 - 11:40 am | #

I am not a specialist hangings but I would assume that if a body falls short distance the primary cause of death is suffocation. In this execution Saddam fell from a considerable height and he most certainly broke his neck.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 12.31.06 - 11:49 am | #

Hold it:
a) When you "hang" somebody, the person breaks it's neck (instantly)
If the rope is to short it doesn't break the neck.
If the rope is to long it severs the head.
b)You can hang somebody for a slow death, like using piano cords, as Hitler (lemachmow) did. The person is pulled up. This is slow and terrible.
polaco | 12.31.06 - 1:30 pm | #

Snagdisz, I don't think I missed the point. I could have included the Shias in the list, you are right. If people need to be executed it should be done in private and certainly no movies should be made of it. If there is a movie than it was done for propaganda purposes. I also don't like people who hand around when an accident happens. Sorry. You want to see blood, join the Army or work in a hospital. The truth is that even there you will only be successful if you do it for a different purpose.
TA, in 'proper' hanging execution the cause of death is always the breaking of the neck.
kushen t. | 12.31.06 - 1:37 pm | #

Truman,
"When does the peoples right to know become propaganda."

People's right to know what? That he died? People have the right to know the crimes he committed, that he was sentenced and he was executed. Public executions bring out the worst in people. We can also argue about the purpose of executions and punishments in society in general. Start with the books of Foucault ;)
kushen t. | 12.31.06 - 1:45 pm | #

Kushen; You repeat your assertion that executions "should be" private. I don't like and don't watch horror movies or public executions. But as for "should be" - where the Torah forbids execution to be in public? You don't show a cause and effect relationship. You are just invoking Torah concepts to apply to fashionable opinions. Your advice about work is also off-target: a slaughter house or an islamic beheading will produce more gore that your recommendations.
Snagdisz | 12.31.06 - 4:46 pm | #

Tzemach; The meaning of secular and religious depends a lot on context. As ruler of Iraq, Saddam claimed to be secular and was immoral and opportunistic. As a condemned man he said an islamic belief declaration when standing on the gallows. The only conclusion is that baathists are not noteworthy for ideological purity.
Snagdisz | 12.31.06 - 5:03 pm | #

"Public executions bring out the worst in people. We can also argue about the purpose of executions and punishments in society in general. Start with the books of Foucault."

Based on the foregoing I would posit that the author is barely out of his teens and is more inclined to value anachronistic political philosophies than he is to trust Jewish experience and wisdom.

The Torah does not proscribe public execution and in some instances expressly demands such. Ipso facto it can not be the evil social instituiton that you suggest.
Truman | 12.31.06 - 7:55 pm | #

"barely out of his teens"
Truman,
I'll take that as a compliment. BTW is your name Harry? Let's start arguing about age now. And if I was a teen would that devalue my argument? However, I am not. I am also not against capital punishment, so don't try to squeeze me into a pigeon hole that I don't fit into. You say I am anachronistic, Snagdisz says that "I am invoking Torah concepts to apply to fashionable opinions", the two seems to be contradictory. There is no fashionable opinion here. I did not say that Saddam shouldn't be executed, I would have shot him myself if I got a chance. This however doesn't contradict the fact that I despise the delusional masses who get a thrill out of an execution. I have seen my share of dead bodies, thank you.
kushen t. | 12.31.06 - 9:44 pm | #

It appears that it is hard to find Islamic masses that are not thrilled by executions. But it must be a net benefit if people who intend evil to Israel set a higher priority on damaging each other.
Snagdisz | 01.01.07 - 8:29 am | #

Tzemach, you commented that-
(Saddam) "was also a secular ruler but he died with Muhammad on lips. I am noticing the general pan-Arab religious revival. The socialist ideas no longer in the Arab world."

The secular nationalist/"socialist" movements in the Arab world such as Baathism and Nasserism never sought to totally replace Islam with their ideologies, like the Soviets tried to do, but to coopt Islam. Saddam, hardly a religious Muslim in any sense of the word-neither in terms of his own beliefs, or personal observance of Sharia, often cast himself in the role of defender of the faith if and when it suited him. During Gulf War I, he talked of jihad to liberate Palestine with his linkage scheme, suddenly he identified himself with Saladin--who was a Kurd, but from the same town as Saddam. And we all know Saddam's policy towards the Kurds.He would often have his picture taken at the mosque to portray himself as a good Muslim when it was convenient. Nasser did the same thing. Nothing too new.
ShmorgelBorgel | 01.03.07 - 12:15 pm | #