mentalblog.com comments:
I know little about the financial state of individual Chabad parishes in CA or the Sun belt. BUt the statement here sounds logical and reasonable.
What Chabad needs either a new Rebbe /leader who will rule by decree or some serious semi-democratic Global Board of Directors set up which would hire administrative leaders to run the movement.
I am commenting out of lethargy as little of this internal Shlichus politics has any impact on me or on 99% of American Jews . It impacts on the core Chabad families for whom shlichus is their sole respectable parnossah (like being a doctor or atty is for most middle class jews in the US)It is the goal of these families to have their young males become shlichim because it offers prstige and in many instances a chance to "drey mit greyse gelter".
These fights are more in the realm of professional discussions like the AMA discussing the number of Med students to be admitted in a given year in American medical schools.
Yes it will have some impact on the state of medicine but the real impact is on those young people striving to be doctors , in this case shlichus is the only respectable profession in Chabad. College is still in the realm of the unusual and few non-Chabad institutions will hire Chabad people as rabbis , teachers or under clergy, so you do some blue collar work in Metro NY or go on shlichus.
I totally missed your point.
What's the problem with 36 more shluchim in a state of humdreds of thousands (or over a million?) Jews? That was not made clear to me.
Why isn't there a remote possibility (ignoring what we know of Cunin for a moment) that this has to do with the desire to propagate the mission of the Rebbe? Debate the issue on its merits: Either the basic issue of placing new shluchim, which most places do responsibly, or the issue of Cunin and the list of mental specialists that you would like him to see.
The fact that Cunin is advocating something good out of his craziness is a problem?
Guravitzer,
Either the basic issue of placing new shluchim, which most places do responsibly....
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Does anyone have any idea (or care) how much back stabbing (distrust) there is between the Shluchim, because each one can't survive on their own?
is there any tachlis in having instead of one Chabad House with 15 people on Shabbos two chabad Houses with 4 people.
is there any logic in having an organization undermining its own franchises?
Didn't the Rebbe make it clear that hasogos gevul must be considered in all these situation?
The fact that there are who knows how many unemployed kolel ungerlite is no excuse for making eing the current hard working Shluchim.
The answer is in the current lack of leadership. If there were skilled leaders caring and dedicated they would find answers that would help propel the organization upwards rather than the current embarrassment.
They would find ways not to compromise further the distrust in their motives for placing indiscriminately 36 Shluchim on the heads and in the territories of current shluchim.
First Nepotism was the ultimate evil, now it's too many Shluchim. Can you make up your mind please?
yehupitz,
if that's the case,there are so many Jews, would you open a Judaica store or a Kosher Bakery in California?
After all there are millions of Jews.
you would first make a study and find out how many people are interested in Kosher Bakery or Judaica products , a feasability study and then consider wether it's possible or worthwhile.
I know this is way too so-fis-icated for many, but if you wouldn't put your money down in any other way what be glib on yenems cheshbon.
HT:
1. I did not write this, this is an opinion of one of the Shluchim. I even disagree with him and but I think it is worthwhile to publish and discuss.
2. Get back to us when you learn how to hold two thoughts in your paranoid partisan brain simultaneously.
Hanoka needs a class in Yiddish.
How did Manis become a Shaliach to Cali?
Fradkin is a brownnose.
observer,
If I read a story that 36 new shluchim are being hired in California, I don't assume that if there is an established Shaliach at 4500 Pico, that the HS is putting up a new Shaliach at 4502 Pico. Why are we automatically assuming that the new ones will be "encroaching"? Last time I checked, CA was a huge state.
For the record I think that there is not enough Shluchim anywhere where Jews live including California.
What’s lacking is cooperation and teamwork between different Shluchim.
What’s lacking is management and financial support from the organization.
Often people who advance on Shlichus are hustlers with deficient spirituality. There has to be a way to support Shluchim who are weak on fundraising but strong on Torah.
Thank you, Tzemach, for defining the conversation. I think your last statement is the truest of all on this issue. We can all remain divided on whether Cunin is a putz or just mentally ill, on encroaching territories, whether PR is good or bad etc.
There is no question though that there are excellent shluchim who either have to leave or end up in debt that eats up their life because their strong point is personal relationships, hashpo'oh and Torah and Chassidus, and are not good hustlers. They will generally get some help from friends, but not from any establishment.
I too agree with Tzemach and that's precisely my point in other words.
as long as Leadership stinks and it's NOT a matter of cooperation, but only the ones on top building THEIR empires on the back of others, therein lies the problem.The crux of the matter.
Cunin is an ass and everyone knows it...
What you don't know is that he has exactly 36 GRANDCHILDREN and nephew's and other brown noses waiting to enter.... he he he :)
OK so we got nepotism back into the soup, HT should be happy now.
Why are you dissing the ass? A fine, hardworking animal.
The newist Shaliach will be his newist son in law, Telishevski.He is about to enter, uninvited, to someone elses territory, we are talking six blocks away, funded by Cunin. You wont find that Shliach in the convention tic tic video nor the group picture!
The truth is, is that if this son in law is as sucssesful as the rest of the family he is no threat!
Korf did this in Florida a few years back. he told all shluchim that within 5 years they have to place another shliach in their areas (only if possible of course) or he will bring someone in.
At first some were upset but in the end everyone did it and it worked just fine and those shluchim are happier now with greater manpower in the areas..
Levi Chadakov from Shmais.com went down there as part of this, and as far as i hear Adler is very happy.
It is jsut that people dont like being told what to do. Each one of these shluchim is in his own right a great man, and in his domain he is revered as near-g-d, he wines and dines with the upper class in his area for support, he feels important. now comes along cunin and informs him that he must do something....
I have great respect for the shluchim
regarding neparstak lets not even get starter with naparstaks chutzpah...
No pretense to be on topic:
http://www.chabad.org/multimedia...1239&
position=1
shoving the truth down someone's throat never makes it palatable.
cunin is perhaps thinking like a leader (regardless of whether there is nepotism at play) because -
1. there are and will be great and greater waves of new generation shluchim. where to go? what to do?
2. in high-concentrated areas there are and will be untouched jews who don't know what yom kippur is. this, in america after 40 years of hafotzo.
commercial, corporate sense doesn't have to dissapear , but it does have to play second fiddle to tikkun olam, gelt iz bloteh, we-want-moshiach-now.
so cunin is a beast, but lubavitch has to place its new troops, and there are mitzvos to be done.
There are three hundred guys in kolel who may be, are, more qualified then his family. This is where the anger comes from.
He couldn't give a damn about the shlichus, he cares only about having his family around him.
I am sure that if he covered the expenses of each shaliach who is hired by a present shliach he would be a hero. But that's not how it works. He hires a shliach, puts him in someone elses back yard pays his expenses, in the case of his family, and says tough luck, I'm the boss.
So whats the big deal we need to spread yiddishkiet, kinas sofrim tarbeh chochmah! Wishful thinking.
This is what happens. Shliach "A" makes a neshamah who after a long time scuttles the car on Shabbos and walks to shul its a ten minute walk, no bigee, until the new guy shows up sets up shop two minutes away. What should shliach "A" tell his guy don't go there? So the neshama starts to attend the new place now he is the big shot he can maybe daven for the umud,he is now a "Shliach". In no time at all the neshama who can barely read is a "Shliach" and needs to now decide if his five hundred a month support to shliach "A' should now be shared with his new home. So he is a nice guy he asks his mashpia Shliach "A" what he should do. What do you think Shliach "A" is going to say? Of course, you need to support where you daven.
This is a best case scenario. In the worst case which is probably more common than less. It's not one but three or four of your neshomos, not enough for a minyan in the new place but enough to ruin your minyan. The new kid on the block is an idiot and turns your neshamah off. These things have happened.
There is a reason why Rav Moshe paskened that you can't open a shul in an area when it can harm a present shul.
So why not take Rabbi Cunin to a din Torah? you ask. For that answer see the Naparstek story.
$500 a month?
Hey, we're allowed to dream :-)!
Sidney, if Shliach "A" shows the BT that he cares, shows that he has spiritual product. The BT would walk an hour not just extra 8 minutes to him instead of the dim relative. Am I wrong?
Not always, Tzemach. Loyalty can be very fickle.
Yes! You missed the point!
It's because Shliach "A" taught him the importance of sacrafice for hafotzah for shareing etc., he sets himself aside to help the new Shliach. Now he spends less time farbrenging on shabbos he is not as in tuned with what's going on with his mentor, and Shliach "A" has no choice but to encourage him all the while.
Sure this neshama will always refer all of his personal shailos to his spiritual mentor but what that means is that the older shaliach gets to do all of the hard work, family therapy, helping sort out chinuch issues etc..
This is when things are good, when we're talking about a neshama who is already commited. What happens when the neshama is not soo commited? Or if the new Shaliach has another job during the week and dosn't pay attention to his new place or its people. Not uncommon with the Cunins.
Let's see. The neshama shows up for some inaugural tephilos that don't have a minyan, so he misses krias hatorah or worse he has to wait an extra hour until they convince somone to come off of the street to make a minyan. This goes on for a couple of weeks. One week his wife says, honey can you come home at a normal time so that we can have guests? Mind you, the new guy doesn't have time or whatever to make calls before shabbos in order to have a minyan. So instead of taking a chance at being number nine or ten and leaving everybody in a lurch he doesn't go to the new shul that week.
He davens at home or worse he goes to the old haunt. Now he gets a guilt trip "we almost had a minyan". The next time his wife asks about having guests you can be sure that he stays home rather than have to deal with the guilt. I have heard of guys not going to shul simply because they weren't missed. Each Rabbi assumed that the neshoma was at the other minyan. This may sound like an oversiplification but under these kinds of circumstances these things are known to happen.
Why all of the noise? Because contrary to some of the opinions I have read in your blog the Shluchim I have met truly treat their neshomas like their own children and just like you don't want some shnook to mess with your kids and you guard them; so too in Shlichus. The Shliach should have a choice as to who he entrusts his neshomas with and when it is ok to let them "go".
Because Cunin decided that Shliach "A" isn't doing enough, he is going to mess with his people?! Who the hell does he think he is, what does he know about a building a Chabad House community, about being a spiritual mentor? Nothing! I woudn't be surprised if he still has to count the Rabbeim to make his minyan.
>Moshe MS
>Levi Chadakov from Shmais.com went down there as part of this, and as far as i hear Adler is very happy.
Not sure why you single out this korban
While chadakov is busy with his Shmais on shlichus in Florida (oxymoron) I have my wonders how long it will last for him with adler. Chadakov is a hard nut.
You say it all worked well for Korf. Just as well as it worked for Stalin after he killed all the dissidents and just as well it worked for Castro after he did the same. and just as all with Cunin after he is mapil aimoh ufachad. Once they're dead its just fine , you say. That's the Torah chassidshe way, right?
There isn't a nook or cranny in Florida where Korf stuck in Shluchim that there isn't fights and it starts right from his own son in Hollywood. noch a piece of work.
Korf is the worse crooked devious Shit there is. The small pellets that are as hard ass like bullets. Shapiro doesn't sit on Din Torahs which involve Korf because he knows he would get fired. He said so. This sure speaks highly of two men of integrity. I just can't figure who 'se the bigger piece of crap. Someone who has a position of Torah , lets say a judge and witnesses a crime happening before his very eyes and will say nothing on the matter has huge other issues of integrity to be suspect of. or the crap itself.
Meinyan leinyan.
I hear of this letter circulating this past weekend from Laiblel Zaintz from Brazil where he talks of a gay couple in Manhattan being married by a Chabad House and then making a Kiddush when they adopted a goy they had converted.
He talks of Korf in Florida accepting goyim in his school to receive money from the government ( when the Rebbe clearly said its unacceptable which he includes that decision of the Rebbe in his letter) and other questionable conversions Korf and his children are involved in and the impertinence of this Korf , he talks of Shemtov (brother in law with korf) proudly displaying his "Partner with the Rebbe" while married to a goya, He talks of Shapiro who won't open his mouth and talk against this ( so much for people who preach standing for the truth under all circumstances) and a goy in Florida who went through a conversion with another Shliach in Florida and the goy clearly states he has no interest in living like a Jew he just wanted a paper stating he is Jewish. (this Zaintz has most of his accusing finger on Florida)
On and on and on and on and on. Which leads to one and only conclusion,
all of leadership stinks just like shit does. time to clean it all out and make a seder in Chabad.
If anyone really cares for the name of Chabad don't accuse the accusers look into yourselves and make improvements.
I don't hear a practical suggestion from you. Tzemach had a practical suggestion. Revolutions do not guarantee success.
I hear of this letter circulating this past weekend from Laiblel Zaintz from Brazil where he talks of a gay couple in Manhattan being married by a Chabad House and then making a Kiddush when they adopted a goy they had converted.
this is hard to believe.
Tzemach
Zaintz is a gvir from Sau Paulo, he is a good friend of Shoulson of ponim chadoshos fame.Ponim Chadoshos is much less reliable than the National Enquirer and much more evil (though it was backed by Lubab because it did the Dirty work against Satmar and Ponovovich)
Do your own math about how 'reliable' the source is.
Ca Shliach, you lost me when you quoted Ponim Chadoshes' journalist.There went any credibility you may have had
everyone who criticizes chabad and especially the "establishment" is ultimately crazy, right. No credibility right?
That's our problem. WE are always right and don't DARE criticize. Btw that's exactly what they did in Russia. people who became to loud in their criticism were put in luni asylums, all the time, because THEY were crazy right?
are you saying that the cause and issues Zaintz brings up is not true?? Are you saying the facts he quotes are not true?
Why not look into it yourself and you will see , maybe meshuga meshuga, ahnei shtuseh lesabeh, ober saichel hot er zicher.
He had some dream the Rebbe came to him and told him to take up this cause of the great churbon of converts in Lubavitch wholesale and so he is passionate about this one issue. You have a problem with someone standing for Giur Kahalocho that has become a joke in Lubavitch?
starting with Shemtov who displays gevirim married to goyim like all is well. That's our role model nowadays?
Ca. Shliach
As a Shliach, you should be uncomfortable of the way you write including both style and expression.
I suggest (1) Don’t use the name "Shliach" (2) Write in a more dignified way.
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