mentalblog.com comments:
Its not the soldiers fault they are just following orders. Olmert is the guilty one as well as Eli Yishay and Lieberman for still being part of this corrupt Govt.
these are not soldiers, this is police.
"just following orders"???? I'm glad they haven't ordered them to build gas chambers...
The IDF was called to perform part of this mission. A number of IDF soldiers asked their Rav about it and then refused to follow orders (even if it was tangential, like barricading the surroundings). These soldiers have been arrested and are now in lock-up; the IDF has sworn today that they will be imprisoned and will never be in combat units.
The Left has been howling today that the Rabbis must also be imprisoned and that the Hesder Yeshivot should be closed down - while defending the refusal of Leftists to follow orders on previous occasions as a proper and moral thing! Typical Leftist hypocrisy.
The Jews might actually learn something from the Polish Catholics this time. When the Poles suffered from a criminal Social-Communist govt that sent the army to battle the Polish people instead of external threats, Solidarnoc eventually won the day, the criminals were kicked out and a functioning democracy was installed. Perhaps it may happen that way in Israel, too. The criminals (the Sharon family, Olmert and a "cast of thousands" of other crooks in high places in our very own banana republic) have to be put away, the ideologically bankrupt Communists will have to surrender and then a proper democracy (which Israel does not have now) might finally arise.
The sad part is that Shas and Lieberman could bring down this Govt. in one day. But they are both bribed to stay in Shas by money and Lieberman by power or what he thinks is power.
200 jews? or 2 Jewish families who had previously agreed to vacate peacefully pending clarification of the site ownership by the courts?
but how could one resist the temptation of providing this pornographic show to hamonei bais yisroel?
so much for the love of your fellow jew!
These days, only the land of the Jews can get away with evicting Jews from their legally-owned land ... and the rest of the world stays silent.
This puts my rotten day in perspective. Thank you for that.
Jake- nothing is more DISGUSTING than a religious Jew that would call Israel undemocratic- you belong Iran, not Jerusalem.
Alex,
There is nothing more disgusting than calling a religious Jew DISGUSTING (all in uppercase, nuch) for having the opinion that the modern political entity called Israel [sic] is an oligarchy barely wrapped in diaphanous lingerie reminiscent of democratic political forms. At the same time she winks her eye and crooks her finger at the world community, she cruelly grinds the faces of her sons and daughters into the ground with the hobnailed boots of a morally bankrupt dictator. Now we're talking DISGUSTING and yes, the lady is most definitely a tramp.
These people were only causing trouble, therefore it was just in place to take them away. Have you ever thought about it how many soldiers are required to guard bunch of irresponsible individudals like these?
They have no right to cause so much disturbance and then hide behind the army.
Their aim was precisely this, to become "martyrs" and to destroy every chance for calm.
State of Israel is not a Heaven made entity. It is a regular state. There ought to be another state along its borders. These borders do not run through Hebron. Unfortunately, for a Greater Israel, they have to wait for the Messiah to come. Meanwhile, they should start packing.
Hey Robert,
I see that you are one of the interlopers. Either we have the right, whether temporal or divine, to be there or none whatsoever. Does your heart ache over spilt Arab blood? (enough of this)
Tzemach,
We are feeling a bit sadistic today, aren't we? Couldn't resist allowing this (expletive deleted) his say; like placing two scorpions in a jar.
There are 2 issues here, so let's not confuse them.
Firstly, Israel is most emphatically NOT a democracy, neither in theory, nor in practice. The govt does NOT represent the people. Not a single MK is elected by the people. Knesset membership is purely a function of party comradeship. The word 'accountability' does not exist in Hebrew - for a reason. Hardly any Israelis even know how to define 'democracy'; I have investigated this personally.
The consequences of the lack of democracy are manifold. Corruption reigns supreme. There are no functioning self-correction mechanisms in govt. Crooks - like the last few PMs, Presidents, MKs, ministers, police chiefs and judges - get off completely free. Patients are illegally experimented on in hospitals, pedestrians are murdered on the roadways, the environment has gone to pot. Nothing improves here; things only get worse. I could write a book with specific details.
Secondly, the efforts of the regime ('government' is too generous a term, really) are directed at keeping themselves in power and out of prison. Thus when Jews in Hevron live in HOUSES that THEY LEGALLY OWN, the regime sends the Israel DEFENSE Force to fight not terrorists but Jews, and evict them from their homes. Recruitment into the IDF is at an all-time low. Check out the headlines yourself; you'll see that everything I say is true.
This week the Left has been screaming for evicting another quarter million Jews from their homes in historic Israel. The secularists haven't a clue who is even buried in Hevron, don't remember that it was a JEWISH town for MILLENIA until the Arabs ethnically cleansed it in the 1920's. All they care about is the TA stock market and to hell with the Jews.
Oh, if you haven't heard yet, a major builder here is going bankrupt, some 1.6 BILLION Shekels short. Thousands of people are losing their homes in various cities in Israel, and their money as well. Peace Now has been fighting this builder with court orders and is DELIGHTED at this turn of events. It seems that Israelis, with the racist expulsion of Jewish Israeli citizens (but not Moslem Israeli citizens) from Gaza and the immediate destruction of their homes, have specialized in home-wrecking. This is so different from the original ideals of Zionism - building a Jewish Home in the Jewish Homeland.
Ignorant people overseas who support Israel, no matter what, even with the best of intentions, are paving the way to Hell. We're half way there already.
To Truman (first of all)
Who is interloping where?
The facts are quite simple here. Israel was established on the UN grounds, not divine decree. Therefore it should respect some borders. Unfortunately, these borders do not stem from the Scripture, but political compromise. And Hebron is NOT within these borders.
If you wan the Palestinians to respect the right of Israel to exist (which every sane person would demand, of course), then you ought to respect the fact that the State of Israel has certain limits defined by the international law.
Under these conditions it, again unfortunately, does not matter whatsoever, who lived where years ago, but whose land is it by the global consensus.
If you have a sovereign state and want it protected by law, you must adhere to these standards.
If you want Hebron, then you have to wait for a UN resolution, or for the Almighty to intervene.
Since none of this has happened so far, Israel has NO legal right to Hebron. Historical, perhaps moral, certainly religious, yes. But that is a totally different story, my dear Watson.
The State of Israel is a modern secular state, not a religious one founded by the religious nor for the sake of religion. If you want the correct Jewish religious view on the State, ask some serious Rabbonim, not the Messianic Right-Wing nuts whose Torah follows their politics, when it should be the other way round.
As such, Jewish religious claims of Hebron are irrelevant to the State, whose job is updholding the law.
The postings by the 2 Roberts (the same?) and David betray remarkable ignorance of the facts.
The Jews in Hevron were NOT "only causing trouble [...] to become 'martyrs' and to destroy every chance for calm". The truth is that, to maintain the peace with the Arabs, these Jews voluntarily left their LEGAL HOMES with a court-backed promise that they would soon return. The Israeli government reneged on this promise and, after a year of waiting, they returned to their LEGAL HOMES.
If you're going to defer to the UN to decide on what is or is not Israel, then you must also agree that Zionism=Racism and that the most evil state on the planet is Israel. Do you?
Hevron is NOT outside Israel; it is part of a DISPUTED TERRITORY. Many other countries have their own territorial disputes. Arguing the Islamo-fascist point of view is certainly no way to win this dispute and it certainly does not put one on the moral high-ground.
As for upholding the law, secular Israel is required to uphold it's own laws and not those of religious fanatics of other religions and other societies. Likewise the Israel Defense Force should be defending Israelis instead of using Force to Attack Israelis and Defend Arab non-citizens. Indeed, it is the Olmert administration that is martyring itself and attacking Hevron Jews in a move which is political, not legal or moral. If you can't see this, then you've been sucked in.
To quote David - "As such, Jewish religious claims of Hebron are irrelevant to the State, whose job is updholding the law." This is simply sophomoric amoral drivel. Political philosophy has moved beyond such simplistic conceptions of the nature and role of government.
more land to be ruined by assholes
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