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mentalblog.com comments: |
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he must have paid these mortgages for years, before foreclosure notices started to arrive. what he did was probably condoing the building, obtaining deeds for individual units for himself and his relatives, and then simply taking mortgages against these units. THE QUESTION IS HOW ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT INTO THESE APARTMENTS EXPLAINED THIS SCHEME. |
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my question still stands, there has to be a sale. |
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he either sold the units as a sponsor to the relatives, or simply transfered the deeds to individual apartments to his relatives and they took out the mortgages. |
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mu questions still stands. HOW THESE PEOPLE COULD DO THIS? |
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fauq, you missing the point unless it is a loan against equity the bank will pay previous owner. |
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the previous owner is the sponsor, e.g. business entity that condoed the building. |
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faruq, they all paid cash so it was a deal, favor. Most of these people could get any mortgage, perhaps not even subprime mortgage. |
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?????????? |
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Why these people would trust this slime-ball is the question here. Here is a guy with no yarmulke, no beard, greasy hair, etc, who claims to have "the Rebbe's berochoh". And you just go and give him money with no proper paperwork without any proper clothing procedure? How stupid can one be? And even if the guy looked the part, why would one make such an important transaction without a proper title insurance? |
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faruq, you are shooting blind. what the heck is a sponsor. |
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closing |
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I am sure Azdoba asked his father what to do! |
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"I am sure the Azdoba asked his father what to do!" |
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Transaction is the apartment. You pay cash, you move in. |
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you buy a building, let's say 770 leffers blvd, and incorporate as, let's say, "770 lefferts blvd llc". at this point you are the owner of the building. then you decide to build it up and condo the units. at this point you are a sponsor of a project know as "770 lefferts blvd condominium". your entity known as "770 lefferts blvd llc" owns all condo units, and sells them separately to new condo owners. |
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i understand still there is a sale, faruq. we are going in circles. there has to be a sale somewhere. Between you and your mother, between you and the corporation, but there has to be a sale. Unless it is an equity loan as I said. |
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What are you people talking about? You come to a closing and the title insurance company is there to make sure the tile is clean an clear and is now yours. What can be more simple? How do you go into such a thing without title insurance? |
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berl, wake up. it was a cash deal. no lawyers, no brokers, no nobody... |
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the title is clean. the owner of each unit is the "770 lefferts blvd llc." all approved by the city and registered. |
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faruq, i give up. |
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good |
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every unit is either sold (and financed by a bank) or transfered to a relative (and mortgage is taken out against the unit), that is all. on top of that, suckers like Ozdoba give the sponsor $100K. |
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ok, now you admit there is a sale. So the got paid twice. 100K cash plus the 370K mortgage. |
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of course |
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If the title insurance was involved, they would now have to pay the owners their purchase price (though not necessarily the current market value). Obviously, I understand there was no proper procedure here, and that is my question - what would make someone do such a stupid thing? |
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CH looks like the capital of the world forunity consul and now this. |
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the proper purchasers, e.g. the sponsor's relatives, simply have not paid the mortgage. and this is why the units are being foreclosed. what title company got to do with this? the suckers who lived there for a couple of years for $100K have nothing to do with the title company. |
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berl, if you can't get a mortgage and you need a place to live, paying 100K cash sounds like a deal. I am more amazed by the fact that he could fill up the darn building with all tenants paying cash supposedly. |
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faruq, you are saying the obvious. |
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but true nonetheless. |
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are you people stupid from all the passover wine? my question was, "why would anyone make such a cash purchase with no proper legal representation'? |
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and my question was "THE QUESTION IS HOW ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT INTO THESE APARTMENTS EXPLAINED THIS SCHEME." |
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idiot |
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berl, diamond dealers do million dollar deals on a handshake. There is assumption of trust. Why did they trust him, I don't know the details. |
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Tzemach, |
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berl, if 100K is 1/4 of the going price, than perhaps is the reason why they did it. But some of them had to question this, it was fishy. Indeed how come not one brought a lawyer into this. Amazing. |
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Tzemach, actually, it is even worse. When these people bought (if memory serves mw right - about 13 years ago), $100K was not SUCH a metziah, prices were really depressed then and these properties are not exactly five-star (nor is the location). Yes, really amazing... and profoundly sad... |
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so these people prepaid rent for 13 years with $100K? not that outrageous. i wonder of they paid common charges all these years. |
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1K a month rent for 13 years is 156K. hard to believe but true. |
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but it looks like the purchases happened much later than that: |
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I have no idea what their deal was. For all I know, they paid a mortgage to this sicko too. He did a similar swindle with a building on East New York Avenue, but I know that there at least some of the buyers got their deeds now though some deal with the bank. (BTW, the '13 years' number is not exact, I am going by my memory, it could be more recent) |
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Condo unit P9 Eliav, Eli 11/26/2002 n/a 157 n/a |
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The Chernobler Rebbe himself lives in that sh... house. |
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The Racmestrivka (?) Rebbe, A gem of a man. The real deal. A sweetheart. |
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but what if he also self-financed the units, heter-iska and all? wow, this is a swindle, if true of course. |
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I have no clue, I hope not. I am just sick thinking of these people... |
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notice there is no Azdoba on that list. May be some people like Twersky did have a regular mortgage. But others paid cash, the units that are not under Freha, etc. |
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looks like it. and their apartments should not be at risk, only the bank repossession is not good for neighbors at all. |
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btw, $100K in cash is a lot of money. it weighs almost one kilo, i think. |
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ok, the article has this: |
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"not a bad deal for 10 years worth of rent." |
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locked out? why? these people should come up with yet another $100K in cash and put down a decent downpayment. they had NOT purchased any real estate 10 years ago, period. and, btw, they are not the only people who had not bought property 10 years ago, they simply got cheap rent. $100K in cash, oh how sweet... |
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faruq- |
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good point nsker, even if they don't use the internet ;-) they must have gotten some letters from the city with property taxes addressed to the owners of the property. |
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As a new development it was (and still is?) expempt from property tax, so no, Tzemach, they weren't getting property tax bills. |
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"five years ago, Ezagui was already being pressed about the titles" |
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New development exempt from taxes? I am not aware of this. |
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nsker, five years ago is as early as I know that NEW BUYERS were telling Ezagui that they did not want to be like the first group of people who bought without titles. It was public knowledge in the bagel shop and Union Street Mikvah that if you were among the original buyers at 770 Lefferts you did NOT have a title. How was this justified? Desperation. It was done on a handshake. There was no promise of illicit gain. The people wanted to buy and so they believed him that they didn't need their own title. I believe the way it was explained to them is that the whole building was under one title to Ezagui. The individual condo owners didn't need official titles because the official owner (Ezagui) knew to whom he had sold the condos. Yes, this whole thing is pathetic but the buyers were taken in my the desperation and NOT by the lure of ill-gotten gain. |
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Yes, for 20 years or so on new condos. A New York promotion to help the late real estate boom. But I am not sure if those buildings qualified for it. |
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i don't have time to read this but there is the case going back a year: |
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properties with tax abatements also get notices, even if there is no tax due. but unlike foreclosure notices, they do not have to be delivered to the property address, but rather to "address for notices" on file with the city. |
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if you read the case you will see that Beis Din knew about this situation at least for two years. So why Azdoba Jr. acting all surprised? |
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I am no lawyer but looks like he lost the case completely and this must a precedent. He coughs up deeds and he pays for the mortgage retroactively. Correct? |
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In effect, the Beis Din does not exist, or there is more than one, and yoiser k'choser... |
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nobody can blame subprime for this, they had time to take him to court, to order that he stays in the country, etc. |
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yes, in light of the beis din arbitration this story becomes curiouser and curiouser. i was wrong, the court decision was that these people are the rightful owners, and conveyance of the deeds was ordered, right? i wonder if there is a difference as to when this cash transaction took place, before or after the deeding to the relatives etc. |
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the case was brought by only one owner. I don't know if there was a mortgage default on that apartment only, 2 years back that is. |
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only by one owner? what are all the other cases listed on page 3? most of them are foreclosures, but also "Haim Nachum v. Freha Ezagui,Jacob Ekhaus, et al. v. Eliyahu Ezagui, Kings County ;Joseph Minsky v. Freha Ezagui, et al., Kings" |
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sorry, i didn't get to page 3. |
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איזאגווי |
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In Israel, the govt released a report this week (according to a radio broadcast I heard) on the costs to society of crime here. The total was 14 BILLION shekels a year, excluding vehicle crimes (car theft? moving vehicle incidents?) The largest component was theft and fraud, 4 Billion shekels. That's over US $ 1,000,000,000 that gets stolen or swindled away. |
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